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  5. "Deir an bhean é agus cloisea…

"Deir an bhean é agus cloiseann an fear é."

Translation:The woman says it and the man hears it.

August 27, 2014

45 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FuzzyBee

Ah, must be one of those Irish fairy tales. ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephaflop

More like, "The woman says it and the man zones out!" But I don't know that in Irish. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flint72

"nuair a labhraíonn an bhean, téann aigne an fhir áit éigin eile = when the woman speaks the man's mind goes some place else"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Avodah

Why is it "fir"? Is it not "fear"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flint72

What I wrote would semi-directly translate to "when the woman speaks, the mind of the man goes some place else". "aigne an fhir = the mind of the man ~ the man's mind". You need to use the tuiseal ginideach. If you haven't learnt it yet, it'll come just after the first checkpoint.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Avodah

Ah yes, is cuimhin liom anois. Tá sé cosúil le "oifig an phoist" agus "bean an tí", ceart? (Agus cheartú mo bhotúin, le do thoil) :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieKelly82899

"Fir" = Men "Fear" = Man


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1515

In this case (téann aigne an fhir áit éigin eile), the fir is the singular genitive, not the plural masculine.

As flint72 explained:

"aigne an fhir = the mind of the man ~ the man's mind".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GearoidinOg

He might hear it, but does he listen???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MauriceReeves

I'm sorry, what was that? I wasn't paying attention...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MauriceReeves

I would say that it should be more like "The woman says it and the man keeps hearing about it, and hearing about it, and hearing about it, and hearing about it."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/O_Fallon

no doubt! and hearing about it, and hearing about and hearing about it LOL


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/O_Fallon

haha! You know about us men then. haha, too funny :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sergimas

So, is this present habitual conjugation of abair correct? http://www.verbix.com/webverbix/go.php?D1=30&T1=abair

That is: deirim, deir, deir, deirimid, deir, deir


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ballygawley

Thanks, I needed this explanation, because offering "deiriann" was not accepted, and I didn't get it ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

Deireann should be accepted. You'll hear it in some dialects from time to time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rostellan

That's certainly what is sounded like on the recording - so that's what I wrote. Is there a chance that there could be a 'slow' version as an option to the actual speed? All the other languages have it, so why not Irish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1515

If you thought that you heard Deireann instead on deir an, then bean would not have been lenited. As bean is lenited, that syllable before it is the definite article an, not a dialect variant of the irregular verb abair.

Courses that use a computerized text-to-speech engine to read the text have a "turtle" option. Courses that use recordings, like Irish, don't have a "turtle" option, so it is not true to say that "all the other languages have it".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanMeaneyPL

Another irregular verb?

I speak, you speak, he does not hear, we speak, you speak, why won't they listen? Comes with practice. This stuff doesn't come easy.

Here's another one. I boast, you understand, she laughs.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/O_Fallon

This one REALLY threw me off my horse.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacobsD8

wait! your on a horse and do Irish at the same time? dude you got some skill!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/O_Fallon

this is an example of "good craic" :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MhaireMt

They mustn't be married!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MhaireMt

Yes, but is he listening?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Antaine1916

Only because he can't get a word in edgewise


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnCatDubh

Why is the first /r/ here a tap (in the new recording) and the second an approximant?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DominicCol12

Yes I heard this was the number 1 rule of a successful marriage in Ireland !!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DominicCol12

The woman says it but the man switches off his hearing aid first !!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dar...

why was the masculine version of 'it' used when 'it' was said by a woman? is there a convention to always use é instead of í unless the 'it' being referred to has a specific gender itself?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Antaine1916

The grammatical gender of the pronoun "it" has to do with the grammatical gender of the antecedent (i.e. whatever "it" is replacing in the sentence).

The generic "it" referring to a statement is masculine, and it will be masculine regardless of the (non-grammatical) gender of the speaker.

It's important to remember that grammatical gender has nothing to do with people-gender. (Cailín, for instance, is grammatically masculine). It's just a relic of old terminology used to classify nouns into two groups for declension purposes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dar...

Thanks. I get the linkage with nouns, though getting the gender right without a dictionary on hand is going to take a while I guess.

It's the more abstract instances like "The woman says it" that throw me because it's not clear to me at all how to apply a gender choice to that. Knowing that the 'default' choice is é helps a lot. I wonder how it evolved that 'it' was decided by 'the hive mind' to be masculine? Probably the same unknowable social process that made ships feminine in English I suppose.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Antaine1916

Don't look for logical associations with real-world gender when trying to ascertain grammatical gender. The two have nothing to do with each other. If anything, it has more to do with the word ending than anything else. It's unfortunate that "gender" is the term linguists chose to use for the classification a few hundred years ago, but it's the term that it is.

As for Irish, yes, you will need a dictionary. There's enough fuzziness and exceptions to the classification that it can be hard to tell without one.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dar...

It's a code, and I'm heavily dependent on dictionaries at the moment that's for sure. But it has a pattern that's slowly dawning on me. I wish I could remember how I learned English, I don't remember even trying.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Antaine1916

English is so much harder than Irish, as it is so irregular in its pronunciation, rules, and usage. Irish seems "hard" to an English speaker because there are many differences to adjust to and it is difficult to get true immersion for extended periods of time. I teach both English and Irish on the college level, and, watching my ELL students struggle with English, I'm filled with gratitude that I am not in a position where I'm trying to learn this crazy language as an adult.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1515

Constant exposure played a large part, and that's hard to replicate for Irish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1515

Would you expect arán to change gender if it was made by a woman? There's no reason why a woman saying "it" would make it feminine.

More generally, "it" is usually é, unless the gender of the "it" is referring to something that has already been mentioned, and the grammatical gender is known to be feminine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dar...

No, of course I wouldn't expect a noun to change gender if it was an object made by a woman, neither did I suggest anything of the sort. I'm trying to understand how the rules for applying gender to what would appear to be neutral like 'it' in this context works.

'it' in this context is no more masculine than it is feminine, so I wondered why the 'é' was preferred when the only logical association with either gender appeared to be that whatever 'it' was, it was said by a woman, therefore at the point of saying 'it' it was possessed by a woman.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RavenTheraphosa

Unless she's telling him to do something :P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bisousethiboux

Why is "bean" lenited here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1515

Feminine nouns are lenited after the singular definite article an.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TabithaMoonshine

Lets stop with the casual sexism, mkay?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MauriceReeves

I think both genders are getting it equally here, and nobody's said anything nasty or demeaning. As grownups and friends, can't we gently rib each other a little bit?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacobsD8

yea, I don't see the sexism hear...sorry?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieKelly82899

I think its sexist to suggest these things. If it were the other way round and everyone here was talking about how women never listen then I'm sure it would seem offensive to a lot of people. Some men may act like this but there is no reason why people should be stereotypical about all men.

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