"A húll."

Translation:Her apple.

4 years ago

35 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/NicholasOvaloff
NicholasOvaloff
  • 25
  • 25
  • 23
  • 15
  • 13
  • 11
  • 11
  • 8
  • 8
  • 8
  • 8
  • 7
  • 7
  • 5
  • 2

Doesn't 'a' mean 'his'? Why is here her apple, instead of his? Is it because of the lenition?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AnLonDubhBeag

"A" can mean his, her or their. To tell the difference you look at the following word:

a úll = his apple

a h-úll = her apple

a n-úll = their apple

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/feyMorgaina
feyMorgaina
  • 24
  • 16
  • 13
  • 13
  • 13
  • 12
  • 12
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 9
  • 8
  • 8
  • 6
  • 6
  • 6
  • 6
  • 6
  • 5
  • 5
  • 5
  • 3
  • 3
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2
  • 1462

"A h-úll" and "a húll" are both correct spellings?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AnLonDubhBeag

Yes they are, Irish spelling isn't very fixed with regard to punctuation.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/feyMorgaina
feyMorgaina
  • 24
  • 16
  • 13
  • 13
  • 13
  • 12
  • 12
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 9
  • 8
  • 8
  • 6
  • 6
  • 6
  • 6
  • 6
  • 5
  • 5
  • 5
  • 3
  • 3
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2
  • 1462

Thanks.

However, DuoLingo told me the "a h-úll" spelling was a typo when I tried it. I'll report it next time.

Edit 2017-01-03: According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_orthography#Punctuation, "a húll' is correct and "a h-úll" is not correct. 'The hyphen (Irish: fleiscín) is used in Irish after the letters t and n when these are attached to a vowel-initial word through the rules of the initial mutations, as in an t-arán "the bread", a n-iníon "their daughter". However, the hyphen is not used when the vowel is capitalised, as in an tAlbanach "the Scotsman", Ár nAthair "Our Father". No hyphen is used with the h that is attached to a vowel-initial word: a hiníon "her daughter".' [Emphasis added]

Notes and Tips on Possessives - https://www.duolingo.com/skill/ga/Possessives

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/krazyceltickid

It's because of the lenition. I was lazy reading the tips and tricks and only read the first half, for consonants. Considering úll starts with a vowel AND it underwent lenition, that means the apple now belongs to her.

TLDR; read the WHOLE tips and tricks

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lancet
Lancet
Mod
  • 12
  • 11
  • 10
  • 10
  • 8
  • 4
  • 3
  • 2

I'm afraid this has nothing to do with lenition! Lenition always places the "h" between the first and second letters of a word, and words beginning with vowels are never lenited. As AnLonDubhBeag helpfully commented, a úll is his apple, a húll is her apple and a n-úll is their apple. See the "Tips and notes" for the possessives skill.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/krazyceltickid

My mistake, I need to learn a better definition for lenition. I was under the impression any time a random h was thrown in it was called lenition. My bad, thanks Lancet!

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Rae.F
Rae.F
  • 17
  • 17
  • 15
  • 11
  • 11
  • 10
  • 8
  • 8
  • 7
  • 5
  • 5
  • 4
  • 4
  • 4
  • 4
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 1729

To get away from a spelling-based definition, lenition is a weakening of a sound. In Irish, that transforms a stop into a fricative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenition

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/davidcwalls
davidcwallsPlus
  • 25
  • 25
  • 22
  • 12
  • 8
  • 1940

I believe all of those change-the-beginning-of-a-word" rules are called "initial mutation" as a group. I looked it up so I didn't have to remember lenition, eclipsis, prosthesis... (the ellipsis means I don't know if there are any more)

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sualainnis
sualainnis
  • 23
  • 11
  • 11
  • 6
  • 3
  • 3

"Their" is spelled "There" in the Tips section (sorry, I don't know how else to report it).

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lancet
Lancet
Mod
  • 12
  • 11
  • 10
  • 10
  • 8
  • 4
  • 3
  • 2

Good catch, thanks!

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dim-ond-dysgwr

Well, it has SOMETHING to do with lenition -- inasmuch as the effect (known as "h-prothesis" if you want to be technical about it; "sticking an h on the front" if you prefer to go easy on the Greek!) happens to any word beginning with a vowel when it follows another word (e.g. "a" = "her") that 1) would not lenite a consonant but 2) does end in a vowel.

Having said all that, I now can't think of another word that satisfies both of the conditions 1) and 2) above! So probably just best to stick to the simple rule that "a" = "her" prefixes an h to any following vowel.

Hope I haven't confused too many people :)

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL

chas sé síos lána uaigneach - "he turned down a lonely lane"

lána is a masculine noun, so it
1) would not lenite a consonant and
2) does end in a vowel

Up until the 50's, it was common to indicate lenition by putting a dot over the lenited letter, rather than putting h after it. That dot was not used to say a húll, because that h isn't lenition.

If you spell a lenited word out loud, such as mo chat, you can/should say "em-oh space see-séimhiú-aah-tee".

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/magrise
magrise
  • 13
  • 13
  • 12
  • 12
  • 10
  • 10
  • 9
  • 7
  • 6
  • 3

technically it's h-prothesis here, not lenition

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/NicholasOvaloff
NicholasOvaloff
  • 25
  • 25
  • 23
  • 15
  • 13
  • 11
  • 11
  • 8
  • 8
  • 8
  • 8
  • 7
  • 7
  • 5
  • 2

Thank you both for the help! I already read everything, so I hope I have remembered it well.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/krazyceltickid

NOW I read everything lol

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kelan585200
Kelan585200
  • 15
  • 10
  • 9
  • 9
  • 8
  • 4

A meaning his puts a h or seamhú as its called on a word beginning with a consonant but doesn't change a word starting with a vowel its the opposite for a meaning hers the h before úll indicates its her apple and not his

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/il_piccione

When would it be "its apple"? I was marked wrong for that.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ckalenda

When the noun doing the possessing is feminine in Irish, but has no gender in English (inanimate objects, abstract concepts, animals you don't attribute a gender to).

Unless the sentence you are translating must have an "it," stick with "her." The point here is to make sure you recognize the difference between "his" and "hers."

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/KarlaanneMcG

Where do you get the tips and tricks?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/michelleplus8

If you're on mobile, try going to the website in your browser. If you open a category (like "Possessives"), there will be a whole lesson right under the links to the practice exercises. Unfortunately you can't get to it from the app, which I think is ridiculous.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Rae.F
Rae.F
  • 17
  • 17
  • 15
  • 11
  • 11
  • 10
  • 8
  • 8
  • 7
  • 5
  • 5
  • 4
  • 4
  • 4
  • 4
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 1729

On the desktop site.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/nahuatl1939
nahuatl1939
  • 25
  • 20
  • 12
  • 12
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 10
  • 9
  • 9
  • 9
  • 9
  • 6
  • 6
  • 2

am, I mistaken or are you people mostly Irish nationals and teachers in the process of bettering your Irish ? I'm asking that because of the way you are handling terms like " hyphen" - " fricative" - " lenition" "prothesis and so on, which, albeit known to me, are not part of my current english vocabulary ( which is not my mother tongue anyway).. But I like to read your comments. which are quite professionals . it brings me back 60 odd years ago when I was in the Gymnase ( college in French-Speaking Switzerland, Lycee in France). . I think I will be able to learn Irish, a language which should NOT disappear !

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Rae.F
Rae.F
  • 17
  • 17
  • 15
  • 11
  • 11
  • 10
  • 8
  • 8
  • 7
  • 5
  • 5
  • 4
  • 4
  • 4
  • 4
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 1729

Aside from "hyphen" (which is an ordinary word that refers to a little line, shorter than a dash, used in spelling words: "all-around" is a hyphenated word, for example) the words you listed are somewhat technical terms used in linguistics. (I am neither Irish nor an educator, but I did study linguistics at university.)

A fricative is a phoneme (a sound of human language) that is created by blowing air through a small space, thus creating a lot of turbulence. Examples of fricatives are f, v, s, z, sh, zh.

Lenition is the process by which a phoneme becomes "lighter". For example, a stop consonant (like b) becoming a fricative (like v). It is the opposite of fortition, which is the process by which a phoneme becomes "stronger". For example, a fricative (like v) becoming a stop (like b).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenition

Prothesis is what we see here with adding an "h" sound at the start of "úll" in "a húll".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prothesis_(linguistics)#Consonant_mutation
When it happens in the mouth of a non-native speaker (say a native Spanish speaker speaking English), it's sometimes called a parasitic sound or an intrusive sound.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prothesis_(linguistics)#Second_language

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/nahuatl1939
nahuatl1939
  • 25
  • 20
  • 12
  • 12
  • 11
  • 11
  • 11
  • 10
  • 9
  • 9
  • 9
  • 9
  • 6
  • 6
  • 2

Many thanks indeed. You say you are not a linguist but you had linguistic at the University. so you must have studied letters _ I am an economist and we sure did not have linguistic at the university. I know the terms because I studied Latin and Greek during the 7 compulsory years in college from age 11 to 18. I wanted to be an archeologue but then I changed my mind. But languages remained one of my passions and I needed them for business. It helped me to open markets around the planet and then to settle in South America where i live since 1992. I have business in 2 countries here. But I am not a linguist at all,though it interests me.I have printed your comments.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/KittDunne
KittDunne
  • 24
  • 6
  • 2
  • 578

I heard this as 'a shúil'. Would there be any pronunciation dufference?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SaoirseRya1

"a hull" and "a shúil" sound the same pronounced by me - a mumhan irish dialect speaker.

8 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/A.bee
A.bee
  • 16
  • 14
  • 7
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 5
  • 2

Same!

6 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lilysophie5

In school I learned that for masculine possession the noun didn't get a shéimiú, eg. a chara- his friend the feminine went without, eg. a cara- her friend and the collective got an urú. eg. a gcara- their friend but Duolingo has it backwards for some reason. I even looked it up on Wikipedia and got the same answers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_grammar#Pronouns

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/G.P.Niers
G.P.Niers
  • 25
  • 22
  • 12
  • 10
  • 7

In what way does Duo have it backwards? It's a bit confusing because of the bizarre tendency of Irish to reflect properties of words in the spelling of the next word, but if you look in the section Possessive determiners there's this:

a athair "his father"
a hathair "her father"

That's consistent with ‘a húll’ = ‘her apple’, no?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/_aoibhin15_

I thought that her didnt get a sheimhiu?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SaoirseRya1

The feminine does and the masculine doesn't.

8 months ago
Learn Irish in just 5 minutes a day. For free.