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  5. "Tá an phéitseog agus na mils…

" an phéitseog agus na milseáin sa chuisneoir."

Translation:The peach and the sweets are in the fridge.

August 27, 2014

100 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoeyH

I'm not wild about having new vocabulary in the eclipsis and lenition lessons. They're already super complicated for a new learner, and I would rather see the changes made to words I already know. This lesson isn't helping me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yanemarie

It helps me greatly to write the Tips & Notes section down. Not in its entirety, just my own understanding of it. Lenition seems like it's all over the place at first, but there are patterns.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eradrissa

I wonder if there is a way to look at the tips and notes on the mobile app. I feel like I am just trotting along memorizing words and trying to figure out how they fit together with no guidance or understanding.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MylesGalla2

Here here! Doulingo, if you're listening, please do this!

I downloaded the app and used it exclusively. I had no idea the "tips" sections even existed! I completed every lesson to level 5 all the way to Genetives before discovering it on the website, after hitting a bunch of walls. I realizing I had to go back and look at all the tips. They are conceptual lessons ahead of the practical ones and it made SO much more sense after reading them. Now I have my phone browser open to doulingo.com while using the app, so I can select the tips.

PLEASE DOULINGO, MAKE TIPS AVAILABLE ON THE APP!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

Duolingo doesn't read Sentence Discussions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ricky528429

It's not actually the case with all the courses. The more popular languages, e.g. Spanish or German, the tips page are totally accessible from the app. There's even speaking exercises, a lot more audio samples and a slow speaking button in case you didn't quite hear what was said. I'm not really sure why thats the case, it just seems like they don't fully commit to less popular course choices


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/redfeathers

The tips are more accessible in the practice mode. you find these in lessons completed and the orange presents as cracked. Hope this helps


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Madhav67389

This website is Doulingo.com not DUOlingo.com this website seems skectchy to me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeeDeeNAZ

I log into a browser on my phone and can read the tips there. It's been a huge help, even though I still use the app for the lessons.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoeyH

Well said. When I'm focusing on lenition, I agree that the patterns become visible, especially once I internalized the slender vowel thing. But in this lesson it feels like I have to work doubly hard with new vocabulary, first to learn and understand it, and then also apply my already shaky understanding. Learning new mutations of vocabulary we've had for a while seems more useful at this point.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkAdams211319

They could include words introduced earlier. Funnily enough, some complain that the questions are too repetitive.


[deactivated user]

    I highlight all the 'Tips & Notes', right click and Copy. Then I print out and also save to my DuoLingo/Languages/Irish file. I find this helps with comprehension and revision.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hpfan5

    Hopefully there will eventually be a section to review it on mobile too


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VSomnus

    It's outrageous that no attempt is made to add the tips section to the mobile app. A LOT of people exclusively use it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pam27035

    I agree. When I was doing Spanish in Duo, I had access to the tips and notes on my phone. But, for Irish, I don't. I don't understand why Irish tips and notes can't be added to the app for Irish. It would help a lot! I don't always have access to my computer, so it's very convenient to be able to do Duo on my phone.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    There is nothing to stop mobile users from opening the website in the web browser on their device, and accessing the Tips and Notes in the browser. That way, they can access the notes while they are in the middle of doing an exercise, if they want to, something that would be not be possible if you were using the app to access the notes.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SueBeaudry

    Where are Tips & Notes? I've never seen any and can't figure out what gets lenition and what doesn't! I only have a computer, no apps and no phone stuff.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    On the website, when you click on a Skill to practise, there is a light-bulb icon if there are Tips & Notes available for that skill.

    Click on the light-bulb.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gehayi

    What Tips and Notes section? Where is it?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SdPDcJpm

    When you enter through a pc or by internet


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Madhav67389

    Where is this section?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/creativemetaphor

    Yes yes yes thank you! I thought I had just missed something somewhere but I don't remember getting half these words before!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ungewitig_Wiht

    All the vocab we have learned thus far was masculine nouns - if they had taken your suggestion we would have missed out on a rather important rule - feminine nouns being lenited after an.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesPower11

    No, if they had used JoeyH's suggestion we would have learned more feminine nouns before this lesson.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Naddiiie

    On the other hand we probably wouldn't know which ones are feminine abd which ones are masculine, since that cannot always be so easily determined. Therefore we would be way more confused at this point since that pattern would escape us


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SolasTamashi

    I disagree. I think it would have given early exposure to the pattern making it an easier transition. All you have to do is not mark as incorrect for missed lenition before this lesson.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkAdams211319

    But still notify us that they are lenited, so we don't learn to use words incorrectly, then unlearn our mistakes. I got used to an bhean and maidin mhaith, so I assumed that bean and maith were feminine, but I didn't like to make assumptions about too many words. I hadn't heard of lenition at that point, but it didn't matter.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/The_dubliner

    @JoeyH, i agree, all this lesson is doing is telling you that their are peaches and sweets in the fridge 50 different ways. I started duolingo to learn Irish, and i all ready know what sweets, fridges, and peaches are!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    This lesson is giving you a chance to practice when to use lenition, and when to not use it.

    The exercises use a limited vocabulary so that you can focus on the process of lenition, and so that you can develop your understanding of when lenition occurs and when it doesn't, rather than being distracted by having to learn new vocabulary.

    Lenition can occur because of the gender of a noun (so you have a masculine and a feminine noun, and you can see how the feminine noun can be lenited in places where the masculine noun isn't, and whether the same thing happens for both singular and plural), lenition can occur after possessive adjectives (and it affects both masculine and feminine, singular or plural equally), and it can occur after certain prepositions, so you need a noun that you can use with those particular prepositions.

    Learning how to use lenition is pretty fundamental to learning Irish.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rostellan

    I agree, it's rather mean to introduce new words to the 'Type what you hear' tests - how could we possibly know how to spell them?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pandacustard

    Why is milseáin not lenited? Is it because it's a plural noun?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ckalenda

    It's masculine, so it wouldn't be lenited after an, either. But na isn't mentioned in the notes, so I imagine it's only for an even when it is feminine.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hpfan5

    if we didn't have a lesson on the gender/declension of nouns how are we supposed to guess since we are new...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daithi23

    Is there any general rules for recognising masculine and feminine nouns?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FeeneyPeggy

    Fem: end in "og"/ slender final vowe/ end in -lann/2 syllables & end in -ocht/ start & end in vowel. For masc: any job/ broad last vowel/end in slender vowel with a fada/ 1 syllable in in -ocht/start with consonant & end in vowel. Hope this helps a bit.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mazzaru

    thank you, this should be introduced with the first lessons.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grainemhaol

    Grma! This is by far the most useful information given since the start...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

    na doesn't lenite in this case.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BardAaron

    But there ARE times when milseáin IS lenited. So when IS that?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    Apart from lenition after the singular possessive adjectives, milseáin is both the nominative plural and the genitive singular of milseán.

    As milseán is masculine, it's genitive is lenited after the singular definite article - so blas an mhilseáin is "the taste of the sweet".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

    There are a number of circumstances that cause lenition. The two causes of lenition that are used with milseán on Duolingo are the 1st person possessives (mo, do, a (his)) Conas atá do mhilseán? and the preposition sa Tá siúcra sa mhilseán


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Widdershyn

    Can someone explain to me the reasoning of using the different phéitseog versus péitseog? I'm confused as to which to use. >.<


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/smrch

    Feminine nouns like péitseog are lenited - 'h' is placed after the first letter, indicating the change in pronunciation - after the definite article an ('the').


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Astorin1

    Why are they not doing that in every example, then? I've seen it both ways in the last 4 questions. Grrrr!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

    There's a difference between an phéitseog and péitseog and na péitseoga(í)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SdPDcJpm

    What is that difference? I'm far from the pc now. I can't sleep so... Let's duo


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    The difference between an phéitseog and péitseog?

    an phéitseog has a definite article, péitseog doesn't.

    Because péitseog is feminine, it is lenited after an.

    na péitseoga is plural, so it uses the plural definite article.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jytou

    What about "there is a peach and candies in the fridge"? Shouldn't this be accepted?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ballygawley

    Nope: "an phéitseog" is "the peach", while "a peach" would be "péitseog" and the same for "na milseáin" vs. "milseáin".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/goldberrygirl

    What's the preposition for "in a" if sa is "in the"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

    Just i. But i on it's own triggers eclipsis - i gcuisneoir = "in a fridge".

    http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/i.htm


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kitsune881

    Why is lenition necessary? If the spelling and pronunciation changes and not the meaning, then why bother?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

    Irish, like most Indo-European languages, has retained grammatical genders even though English has largely discarded the concept.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

    Because the pronunciation change is often used grammatically, such as when forming the past tense.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ann662026

    Why does fridge not need an "an" to show it's "the fridge" but peaches and sweets do?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

    The an is included in the sa.

    "in a fridge" is "i gcuisneoir*.

    "in the fridge" is sa chuisneoir.

    When you combine i and an, you get sa, though in some dialects you will hear ins an instead of sa.

    Note that, because of this link to a construction that ends in n, the "dentals dots" rule apples to sa - so, even though sa normally lenites the following word (sa chuisneoir, not sa cuisneoir), if the following word starts with D, T or S, we don't lenite - we say sa teach, not sa theach.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulG_86

    Can someone please explain the difference in pronunciation for milseán and milseáin? They sound the same to me


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/supernothing1234

    I also am really struggling with plural pronunciation, and can't find anything online to help. You can obviously tell singular from plural if someone is saying 'the sweets' or 'the sweet' because 'na' or 'an' would be the indicator. But if someone were trying to tell me 'There is a sweet in the fridge', and I assumed they were saying 'There are sweets in the fridge', I'd feel pretty bad about taking their last sweet out of the fridge. Glad I'm not the only one having a hard time with this


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rogurmez

    I am so lost with all that is going on... Can someone simply explain what, why and how to use lenitions. This lesson is not being my friend.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    Did you read the Tips & Notes?

    (You now have to be logged into Duolingo in the browser to access the Tips & Notes).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SashaTB

    Why isn't "There are the peach and the sweets in the fridge" working?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brid510871

    Daft question. How do you know which is a feminine noun and which a masculine?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeMalone372235

    As per your other examples, why does this not translate as "There are the peach and the sweets in the fridge."? This is like your translation of "Tá peitseog sa chuisneoir." --> There is a peach in the fridge. I translate it as "A peach is in the fridge." Where in God's sake do you get the "there"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    If I ask you "What's in the fridge?" would you answer "A peach is in the fridge?" or would you answer "There is a peach in the fridge?"

    If you wanted to refer to one specific peach ("the peach"), would you say "The peach is in the fridge" or "There is the peach in the fridge".

    For plurals, you get the same thing - "There are two peaches in the Fridge" vs "The two peaches are in the fridge".

    English is irregular. It prefers "there is/are" with indefinite nouns in prepositional phrases. English speakers don't even realize that they are doing it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/otsogutxi

    What type of sweets would you store in a fridge?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/onlycookie

    Come to Australia and you can basically put all of them in the fridge to avoid melting (including non-choc ones often enough)! Temperatures often are above 35 °C air temp, while the temps in enclosed spaces can go way beyond 80 °C (in my car, the plastic covering of the B column has bubbled up and melted at one occasion in the past - looks fancy now :-/ ) Depending on how your house was positioned with respect to sun, indoor temps without aircon can go above 45 °C as well. First time I saw 'grab a Mars from the fridge' I was puzzled. Until I had a series of melted choc drinks that hid in choc bar wrappers :-/


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mattenhall

    Candy, candied peaches, etc


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maomacska

    I wonder what is a difference between SA and SAN, which is IN THE


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

    sa is the standard way of saying "in the". It becomes san before a vowel sound.

    sa evolved from ins an which is still used in some areas.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nahuatl1939

    why is it PHEITSEOG ( with PH pronounced F as in French and not PEITSEOG as in the last lesson( Ta PEITSEOG AICI) ? and how are these 2 different words pronounced ? ok i JUST REVISED the lenition notes and I see that P can be lenified with the addition of an H. so this changes the pronounciation. BUT STILL, why is it TA PEITSEOG AICI and TA AN PHEITSEOG AGUS ..... I must tell you that i have learned the 8 languages that i speak fluently ,like a little child learns his mother tongue i.e. without learning grammar until I could speak. But still, I'd like to know the reason of the above difference. Thanks.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    Irish has masculine and feminine nouns. Feminine nouns are lenited after the singular definite article in the nominative case.

    "Péitseog" is a feminine noun, therefore "a peach" is péitseog, but "the peach" is an phéitseog.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanielC.To1

    why not sweets. think candy is american


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    "sweets" is the default translation for this exercise.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lindsay825464

    What's the difference between milseáin and milseán?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    milseáin is the plural of milseán.

    milseán = "a sweet" ("a piece of candy" in American English)
    an milseán - "the sweet"
    milseáin = "sweets"
    na milseáin = "the sweets".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MechamRachel

    Why is it 'the' fridge when there is no 'an' before chuisneoir


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    i+an becomes sa.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CherylW.3

    What is the verb please?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mia212365

    "Ta" - it functions as it always does to tell you that sonething is being. It is modified by "sa" ("in the") to tell us the food is in the fridge (cuisenoir I hope I spelled that right I can't get back to the question ;-;)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ricky528429

    It sounds to me like shes pronouncing milsean and milseain exactly the same


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KG00717

    I am trying the determine the reason why in this sentence "an phéitseog" undergoes lenition and why "na milseáin" does not. Is it because "na milseáin" is plural? Anybody else know?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ricky528429

    That's one reason. Also, milseán is a masculine noun so even the singular version doesn't get lenited


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    The singular definite article an lenites feminine nouns in the nominative case.

    na is not the singular definite article, and milseán is masculine.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-padraig-

    How do I know whether the noun is feminine or masculine?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-padraig-

    Why isn't milseáin lenited? Phéitseog and chuisneoir are, but why not milseáin?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    The plural definite article na doesn't cause lenition.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-padraig-

    ah, go raibh maith agat!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alec96307

    Why does 'péitseog' in this sentence take a h?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    That question has been asked and answered in the earlier comments on this Sentence Discussion.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkAdams211319

    When is h pro(s)thesis introduced (adding an 'h' to the beginning of words starting with a vowel)?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    There are probably some examples of it in the Plurals skill, just before Eclipsis and Lenition.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alec96307

    If you can't access the tips sections on the app (I can't for Irish on my phone) go to duolingo.com and Irish will come up and the tips sections are on there. I only found this yesterday


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WlLDFL0W3R

    I'm confused as to why peach here is lenitioned to become phéitseog while milseáin does not get the "h" added as well. Why is only one of the words being lenitioned and getting an h added? I understand the h in chusneoir since it is following "sa," but what of the others?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

    As explained in many of the other comments, the singular definite article an lenites feminine nouns in the nominative case.

    na is not the singular definite article, and milseán is a masculine noun.

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