1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Irish
  4. >
  5. "Leabhar leabharlainne."

"Leabhar leabharlainne."

Translation:A library book.

August 28, 2014

26 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flint72

And yet more questions from me;

Here we have "leabharlainne" which looks like the nominative plural, but given that we're doing a lesson on the tuiseal ginideach I am guessing that it is in fact the genitive singular in this sentence.

If this is the case, they why is the English not "a library's book" ? That is, why is "library" used like an adjective (to describe the book), as opposed to being the possessor (to own the book)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnLonDubhBeag

Putting a noun in the genitive is how you turn a noun into an adjective in Irish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Crepitaculum

I love this language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichardMik2

......do the irish ever shorten this? Because of the redundancy?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

It's not considered redundant. And, no, I doubt they'd simplify it any.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryLea11

How is it redundant? Do you mean because the two words sound simailar? And how would one shorten it?

The nearest thing I can think of to illustrate the question in English is 'the bookshop's book.' You might use it in a sentence like 'The bookshop's book about Irish grammar.' I can't think of a way to shorten that. Or in French maybe 'la Bible de la bibliotheque' as in 'the library's Bible.' (sorry, I can't get that French accent which looks like a backward fada over the first 'e'.) There is no way to change those sentences in either language without subtly changing the meaning of the sentence. And in each case they are grammatically correct.

(I hope the above doesn't sound too pompous - I hate that the internet makes discussion appear dry. I honestly am not trying to be a git here, I really am trying to work through nuances, and this is an interesting question.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Raftus

"the book of the library" - is that right too? The lack of articles seems to allow this interpretation, but I amn't sure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichardMik2

The book of the library would be leabhar na leabharlainne. The lack of articles makes it indefininte (i.e. a library book/a library's book/a book of a library)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZanninaMargariti

Leabhar isn't books??? Plural???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

Leabhar is the nominative singular, leabhair is the nominative plural


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RFeuvl

You sent on a great link previously Knocksedan http://www.nualeargais.ie/foghlaim/nouns.php Following this, should it not be 'leabhair' here as 'a' changes to 'ai' in gs for first declension masculine nouns?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

Leabhar isn't in the genitive in this phrase, it's in the nominative.

leabharlann goes in the genitive, giving leabharlainne.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RFeuvl

Thanks. Was over-thinking the genitive


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanSheppar1

It's kind of weird to be introduced to all these words first in the genitive. I find a compulsion to look up their nominative every time this happens!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OisinQuinn

It's my first time hearing the "l" in "leabhar" pronounced like a "y" - is this just the Connacht dialect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

It's not pronounced like a "y" - there is a noticeable "y" sound after the "l", but the "l" sound is quite clear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shivaadh

Leabharlann f

declension 2 f (except im, teach and slaibh) gs. palatalisation + -e

ns. leabharlann gs. leabharlainne,  npl. leabharlanna [strong because no palatisation like gs. and ending in -anna?].

For gpl. teanglann shows only a squiggle. That, in dictionaries, normally means it's equivalent to the main entry, which would here mean that gpl. = ns, that is gpl. leabharlann But that's only the case for weak plurals :(

Who can confirm npl. and gpl. of leabharlann, or knows where teanglann.ie is hiding it's dictionary preface that explains its unconventional notation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

The nominative singular is leabharlann, the nominative plural is leabharlanna - that is a weak plural.

Teanglann.ie has a Gramadach/Grammar tab that provides the declension of nouns and adjectives and the conjugation of verbs.

The preface for the FGB is written in Irish.

The third page has a section entitled Comhartaí that includes this line:

~ ag seasamh don cheannfhocal slán agus é á athlua san alt mínithe

(standing for the intact headword when it is repeated in the explanatory paragraph).

If you want an explanation in English, have a look at that the "Look inside" selection for the book "A Learners Guide to Irish" on Amazon. The "Look Inside" includes a section on "The Ó Dónaill Dictionary" (aka FGB) that explains the key symbols used in the dictionary.

Learn Irish in just 5 minutes a day. For free.