"Ithim roimh an gcailín."

Translation:I eat before the girl.

4 years ago

55 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/dwarven_hydra
dwarven_hydra
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Just a quick note on pronunciation, because spelling and pronunciation can be hard with Irish, "the important thing to remember about eclipsed consonants is that only the first consonant is pronounced."

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/il_piccione

oh, so that's why it's called "eclipsis"! The extra consonant "eclipses" the original!

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MauriceReeves
MauriceReeves
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  • 1561

This should be added to the tips and notes section.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ataltane
ataltane
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It should.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ungewitig_Wiht

Also in Scottish Gaelic they delete the original consonant but Irish wants to show the original word more clearly

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/rtxanson
rtxanson
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This is "I eat before the girl (eats)" not like "I eat in front of the girl", correct?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lancet
Lancet
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Roimh can mean before in terms of either time or location, depending on the context.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/rtxanson
rtxanson
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Does that mean that this sentence is ambiguous, or is it completely unambiguous and I just can't see it?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lancet
Lancet
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It is ambiguous! Roimh has multiple meanings, similar to English before.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/alex_tv80
alex_tv80
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And again - it's like in Russian!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jenn2092
jenn2092
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yes. so many similarities. do u think it has to do with the greek or hebrew commonalities ?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

More likely the fact that they're both Indo-European languages. Greek shares similarities because it too is one. Hebrew is not, however.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/waste0fpaint

I wish there was something to explain the grammar of adding the g before cailin.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/liamog
liamog
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Here are some examples of when you would use an úrú (eclipse) for a noun beginning with c. You will learn these as you progress.

  • ar an gcailín (on the girl)
  • ag an gcailín (at the girl)
  • leis an gcailín (with the girl)
  • roimh an gcailín (before/in front of the girl)
  • ár gcailín (our girl)
  • bhur gcailín (your pl. girl)
  • a gcailín (their girl)
4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/UaSirideain

Preposition + definite article = eclipsis, in most cases.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/safiire

Ok, this is the most helpful explanation for me, go raibh maith agat :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cait48
Cait48
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Unless you're in Ulster, then it seems to be mostly preposition + definite article = lenition. So whatever you say is probably okay somewhere!

3 years ago

[deactivated user]

    Look at the "Tips & Notes" section of this lesson.

    EditDelete4 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/MauriceReeves
    MauriceReeves
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    • 1561

    Yup, the tips and notes for this section were very helpful. In fact, I copied them and rewrote them by hand just to try to help remember them.

    4 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/pguerrajr
    pguerrajr
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    I do that too. It's really helpful!

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/AlyssaCoolen

    In tips & notes, the examples given when using eclipsis, some of the English translations were plural, but the Irish word wasn't. (seacht n-úll = seven apples.) Is this a mistake? Or does the plural not apply with eclipsis? Please help!

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/Ballygawley
    Ballygawley
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    That is another peculiarity of the Irish language, which you will stumble over in the "numbers" chapter:

    https://www.duolingo.com/skill/ga/Numbers

    In almost all situations, you use the singular version of the noun and not the plural version when counting with numbers. .... (for example, to count dogs you use the singular madra instead of the plural madraí).

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/AlyssaCoolen

    go raibh maith agat!

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/Jd1500

    So much for Ladies first...

    2 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/FFitzgeral

    Also, a girl, to me, is a child. Traditionally parents would serve food to children before they themselves will eat. It feels like an awkward sentence, but it is grammatically right. I know how to say that I eat before this girl - IRL I just wouldn't do that.

    1 week ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/tinatica
    tinatica
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    • 474

    tips + notes are very helpful here! thanks! I c/p~ed it and printed it out, too much to remember all at once!

    what puzzles me here in this sentence is the (only implied) subject (in the "-im" ending). first off I did not pay attention to that and thought that "an gcailín" must be the subject (turning the whole sentence around, like it sometimes happens in italian) - but then there would be no need for eclipsis, right? only the "roimh an" demands the eclipsis, or am I mistaken?

    just "the girl" would have to be "an chailín", calling for lenition, right? puzzled

    I understand that the concept of eclipsis/lenition is a complex one and probably very hard to teach at any stage of the course, but still - somehow it makes me feel as if I had skipped five lessons somewhere and jumped from lesson 5 to lesson 10, judging from the difficulty of food/animals/plurals compared with these two chapters.

    thanks after all for the Irish course! I think it's great being able to learn such an "old" language here on DL! :)

    4 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

    You are correct. The eclipse is because of roimh an. In Ulster Irish, it would be lenition. So both riomh an chailín and riomh an gcailín are accepted, thought you should stick with one.

    Also, it would not be an chailín, but an cailín. Cailín is a masculine noun, becuase of the ín diminutive ending (all diminutives are masculine) and it comes from Caile + ín (little maid)

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/GertWall
    GertWall
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    I, too, was/am completely baffled by this. When I first learned eclipses and lenition, I didn't understand any of it, but I got through it and kept moving ahead. Now I have come back to review and it makes more sense albeit, still very challenging. Some have suggested writing out the rules found in tips&notes to help retain the information. It sounds like a good idea to me.

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/TommyColombo

    what is the G Before 'cailin'? short answer pleasee ;)

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/AoifeOConn3

    Words like ag and roimh are prepositions. Eclipsis happens when you have a preposition followed by "an cailín" or "an madra" or whatever. (Not when you don't have an.)

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/Rae.F
    Rae.F
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    • 1724

    https://www.duolingo.com/JosiahDPower

    I understand the grammar of eclipsis but I don't understand the "why" of it? I know "it is the rule" but I haven't yet read why this is.

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/Ballygawley
    Ballygawley
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    The why is in the past: languages develop (and dialects grow apart to create new languages ;-)

    http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/sindos.htm

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/JosiahDPower

    Thanks Ballygawley...just what I was looking for...

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/nahuatl1939
    nahuatl1939
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    i must tell you all that whilst the footnotes ARE very important, YOUR comments are definitely an absolute necessity ! so I printed them all. Thanks a lot for your contributions.

    1 year ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/Fransfrench
    FransfrenchPlus
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    Pretty hard to do when using the Android ap, alas.

    2 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/alexmiller1201

    You can go to the website in your browser and view as desktop site. Then you can see the tips with each lesson.

    1 year ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/Losa721809

    this sentence can be confusing. It could be: I eat before the girl eats. As in: I ate my meal, before she began eating her meal. Or... It could mean, I ate my meal in front of her. As in: She sat and watched, as I ate my meal. As you can see, there is a big difference between these two interpretations. How do we know which meaning is correct? Whichever one is correct, how do we say the other one?

    1 year ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

    Both -- roimh can be temporal or spatial. You tell them apart the same way you do in English -- through context (which is a major failing point of DL, in my opinion) or disambiguation.

    1 year ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/nahuatl1939
    nahuatl1939
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    since you are learning French ( my language) we don't have this problem : it is either AVANT or DEVANT. " Devant " meaning IN FRONT OF... there is no possible confusion in French. it is either JE MANGE AVANT LA FILLE ou JE MANGE DEVANT LA FILLE.,

    1 year ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/Loughlan3

    Again they added g to cailin.I know its eclipse, but why do that.Can you pls tell me?

    3 months ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/FFitzgeral

    The short answer? It flows better in speech. Irish people like to communicate quickly. We don't pause much between words.

    1 week ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/Danieldrd

    Just a quick question, does the Irish used in Gweedore (Donegal) have much different Eclipsis or is it really similar?

    Just want to know so I don't end up getting confused between the dialects. (I live in Donegal)

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/AnLonDubhBeag

    It's different. Donegal Irish lenites after prepositions:

    roimh an chailín.

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/ElaineShin
    ElaineShin
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    What's the difference between gcailín and cailín?

    2 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/Anna795979

    Why is there a g in front of cailin?

    1 year ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/MauriceReeves
    MauriceReeves
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    • 1561

    It's because in Irish (certain dialects), there is urú, or eclipsis. In essence, certain words have a new letter put in front. There's a good breakdown here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/10981166

    Also here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_initial_mutations

    Good luck!

    1 year ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/Anna795979

    Also, WOW dude, I am really impressed by your skills - a streak of 996? WOW!

    1 year ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/Anna795979

    How do you know what letter you should use for the eclipse? (Why is it gcailin and not bcailin or any other letter that eclipses another letter)

    1 year ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/MauriceReeves
    MauriceReeves
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    • 1561

    In the first link I posted, there is a table that breaks down which letter goes in front of which letter. Luckily it's consistent, and once you remember the rules, you're good to go.

    Specifically the thread says: > As you can see, only the letters B, C, D, F, G, P and T can be eclipsed and they are eclipsed with m, g, n, bh, n, b and d, respectively.

    And there are four cases where eclipsis is used:

    1. After possessive adjectives
    2. After numbers seven - ten
    3. After prepositions + the definite article
    4. After certain other words

    Your best bet is to read the Duolingo thread because it goes into way more detail and gives concrete examples for you to study. Interestingly enough, other languages will do similar changes based on a preceding word. Japanese has a property called "rendaku" which means certain letters change based on the proceeding word/phoneme. For example, person is "hito" and to say people you double it (neat, right?) except rendaku changes the second h to a b: hitobito. Another example is in Japanese a "kitsune" is a fox, but if you mean a female fox, it becomes "megitsune" because female (me) before fox (kitsune) changes the k to a g. (And I'm writing all of this about Japanese as a rank amateur. I'm sure I'm glossing over some important details, just sharing as an example. Please don't beat up on me, anybody, if I'm wrong. :-) )

    Anyway, enough digression. Go read the duolingo thread. It's going to be your best help.

    Happy learning.

    1 year ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/syntyche1981
    syntyche1981
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    You just taught me something I didn't know about Japanese --- I have a minor in the language.

    1 year ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/syntyche1981
    syntyche1981
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    (we're out of reply levels) I majored in Spanish. I was wanting to add another language and was debating between understanding anime and reading Dostoevsky untranslated. Due to weather, many finals were rescheduled that year and my Spanish final shared a room with the Russian 201. The listening audio annoyed me so much I chose Japanese. I have to say I didn't learn as much as I should have because both teachers went easy on our section. I truly can't wait for the Japanese to launch on Duolingo. I have become rusty with katakana. (after attempting the Russian on Duolingo I think I made the right choice. It turns out I'm more dyslexic in Russian than English)

    1 year ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/MauriceReeves
    MauriceReeves
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    • 1561

    Wait, for real? Like I said, I'm a just a language learning fan, so I only know little tidbits like that. How was learning Japanese? Did you do it for fun, or a different reason?

    1 year ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/MaryMcGonagle123

    I learned Donegal Irish at school many many years ago. Why are all the spellings, and pronouncations so confusing to me. ?

    1 year ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

    The spelling, apart from the use of eclipse instead of lenition here, shouldn't be any different at all; they're all based on the standard (unless, of course, you were learning to right Donegal Irish as it's spoken; in which case, fair play to the teacher). As for pronunciation, it's likely that you just haven't been exposed to that much Irish outside of Donegal. Practice and exposure will help fix that.

    1 year ago
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