"I wait until you find the dog."
Translation:Io aspetto finché non trovi il cane.
"Finchè" means for the entire period that....
I wait for the enrire period you dont find the dog. "I wait while you don't find the dog" would be a better translation cause is gives the idea that "as soon as you find it I stop waiting". An even better adaptation is "I wait until you find the dog". I would even understand "I wait while you find the dog" meaning "while you try or make the effort to find it".
But definitely that translation is as ugly as losing your dog.
Not quite. 'Finché' means 'as/so long as'; it indicates an indefinite period of time. When something happens to terminate that period, in English we then use the word 'until', a different expression altogether. However, Italian does it more simply: the word 'non' is added to 'finché' to indicate the termination. The shorter form in Italian is the longer form in English; the longer in Italian, the shorter in English. Hope this helps.
I know it's been a few years since you commented, but for those seeking the answer, here's what I figured out:
In English "negatives" cancel each other out.
These two sentences mean the opposite things:
I did find the dog.----------------------I did not find the dog.
(dog was found)------------------------(dog was not found)
Both of them switch if you add 'not'. So:
I did NOT find the dog.----------------------I did NOT not find the dog.
(dog was not found)---------------------- (dog was found)
However in other languages, including Italian, negatives are additive. That is they emphasize the point, rather than change the meaning.
So "Io aspetto finché non trovi il cane" and "Io aspetto finché trovi il cane" mean the same thing (even if the 2nd sentence isn't as proper).
I've also thought immediately of Russian. "Non" seems to be really confusing to many people here. Actually, as in Russian, there is no logic behind, one just have to accept the fact that in some phrases in some languages whether you use negation ("non") or not - the meaning does not change. Like in this phraze in Italian and in Russian - "подожду, пока найдёшь", "подожду, пока не найдёшь" - same meaning. It is confusing as hell and has simply to be accepted by language learners as is.
I read in another thread that it's easier to read 'finché non' as 'until' and I haven't struggled with it since.
By using it this way, it's clearer to see it simply as 'until+verb' since 'non' isn't translated to form the negative in the sentence.
Finché non trovi = Until you find
Finché non leggi = Until you read
Got this from the inter web Be careful with ‘finché’, ‘finché non’ and ‘affinché’!
‘Affinché’ is straightforward. It means ‘in order to’.
‘Finché’ is much trickier. It can often be translated as ‘until’, though its meaning may change when used with the negation ‘non’.
When the meaning of finché is ‘fino al momento in cui’, the use of the negative adverb ‘non’ is optional. For example:
Studiavo finché mi sono addormentato. = Studiavo finché non mi sono addormentato. (= fino al momento in cui mi sono addormentato.)
Tutto andava bene finché cominciò a piovere. = Tutto andava bene finché non cominciò a piovere.
In contrast, when finché means ‘per tutto il tempo che’, the use of ‘non’ completely changes the meaning of the sentence. For example:
Sono stato bene finché ho abitato a Roma = Sono stato bene per tutto il tempo che sono stato a Roma.
Sono stato bene finché non ho abitato a Roma = Sono stato bene prima di andare a vivere a Roma.
finché non should be "read" as one word: until.
finché should be read as: as long as/while.
so an understandable transation would be: as long as you don't find the dog, i'll wait (with the outcome that the dog will be found). No waiting needed anymore after that. But it's better to not fall back on such translations and learn in Italian (or whatever language your learning) in it's own context. Some things don't have (nice) direct translations. So forget the negative connotation and just remember: finché non means until and finché as long as/while.
We've studied this in regular Italian class. Strictly finche is "as long as", a variant of "while" if you like, so finche non trovi is "as long as/while you don't find the dog", which means "until you do find the dog". But the non is optional in everyday usage. The meaning is clear with or without the non. http://blogs.transparent.com/italian/finch-o-finch-non/
I wrote "io aspetto finché trovi il cane" and it was marked correct and it just said "io aspetto finché non trovi il cane" was another solution. I read through these comments and I get why the non is there but now I am confused. Are both sentences correct? Can we omit the non from "finché non" and it's still alright or does that sentence have a different meaning? Or was Duolingo wrong when it marked my answer correct?
If English speakers do abhor a double negative, as you seem to think, it is perhaps because it is not grammatically correct in English usage. So it grates on us when we hear it spoken. It is not simply that Italians prefer a double negative. It is an important part of the Italian grammatical system which non- native speakers are required to master. Get it? Got it? Good!
In Old English and in Middle English, so-called double negatives were normal. In Shakespeare's Early Modern English, one also finds examples...In Japanese, which you are studying, shika "triggers" an overt negative: "Terebi ni wa tsumaranai bangumi shika nai, lit. " 'On the tele there are not but boring programmes.' One is taught (or used to be taught) in school not to say "I'm not hardly ever late," but many people talk that way. (Non sono quasi mai in ritardo.) As DavidMoore126947 points out, "double negative" really isn't the right term. In French, je ne sais pas 'I don't know' doesn't contain a double negative. ne is the original negative; pas reinforces it.
'Until', when used as a conjunction (it is also used as a preposition) translates as finché non or fino a quando. In negative sentences where the two verbs have the same subject, 'not until ' is translated as 'prima di + infinitive. NB: Copied from my Oxford Paravia Italin dictionary
Hi, look, it is just the Italian construction of the sentence, I know it is counter-intuitive, but you have to take it as it is. It is easier for me as it is pretty much the same in my mother tongue. But think about it like this: Someone is willing to wait all that time the other person CAN NOT find the dog (that's where "non" comes from). As soon as that person finds the dog the waiting is over. So that "non" relates to the period of waiting/looking for that dog. I know that Italian is so different from many languages, one can't just translate word for word and word order for the same order.
Please read my comments from weeks ago. But basically it is just the Italian construction of the sentence, I know it is counter-intuitive, but you have to take it as it is.
But think about it like this: Someone is willing to wait all that time the other person CAN NOT find the dog (that's where "non" comes from). As soon as that person finds the dog the waiting is over. So that "non" relates to the period of waiting/looking for that dog. I know that Italian is so different from many languages, one can't just translate word for word and word order for the same order.
Technically this may be correct. The problem is that in Italian usually you drop personal pronouns (as the conjugated verb suggest the person) unless you want to emphasize/stress something. In this case if you have a group of people and you want to address just one, particular person, who suppose to look for that dog, then yes you can add TU.
It is like a difference between:
"Come here for a second" and "Hey YOU, come here for a second"
You can come up with all sorts of reasons as to the 'validity' of using 'non' in this sentence..but in my book...saying in English, "I will wait as long as you don't find the dog" would be one of the poorest ways to convey the thought that you'll wait no matter how long it takes. OMG, what a lousy sentence structure this is in Italian using to throw in 'non' in this sentence.. So no matter what, my opinion is get that 'non' out of the sentence.
you seem to stuck in english thinking. When you learn an other language, you learn an other way of thinking. If you want to master an other language, you should let go of the context of the language of your own. There are countless languages on this world, imagine how stupid and illogical many many things in english sound in an other language.
This has to be the dumbest translation in this lesson. Makes no sense. And for arguments sake, it does make sense in Italian, it doesn't belong in this lesson because i can say it the way we're taught in Italian and it would still make sense. These are so frustrating when you get them wrong.