"I wait until you find the dog."

Translation:Io aspetto finché non trovi il cane.

May 25, 2013

330 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/martincortes31

Why is there a "non" in the sentence? Wouldn´t that mean " I wait until you don´t find the dog" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EdaSaydan

My understanding is "finché + non" together means "until" so don't translate them separately


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Finché (fino+a+che) = as long as (something goes on) ~ while

Finché non = as-long-as not (something happens) ~ until

I wait as long as not you find the dog ~
I wait as long as you don't find the dog ~
I wait until you find the dog


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rand576002

Thanks, i just need to commit that information to memory.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jon67839

That one got me too. Thank you for the explanation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeRom820

Grazie mille


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S12E2P12H

That makes sense, thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/michaelmcgeehan

Thank you that was good advice :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hansaurusrex

This happens in spanish as well. I wonder what is the root of this idiom


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DermotMcInerney

Thank you. This is very helpful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/XlUi8bZ7

That makes more sense. Thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Neri-Black

Grazie per la spiegazione!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Magie594685

Aha yes, that's right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EnchantedGolem

Thanks a lot for the explanation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertBruc14

Thank you! That makes sense!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Val872092

Thank you . Very helpful .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexros83

"Finchè" means for the entire period that....

I wait for the enrire period you dont find the dog. "I wait while you don't find the dog" would be a better translation cause is gives the idea that "as soon as you find it I stop waiting". An even better adaptation is "I wait until you find the dog". I would even understand "I wait while you find the dog" meaning "while you try or make the effort to find it".

But definitely that translation is as ugly as losing your dog.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlesJaz

Preach! I found it ridiculous as well


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/crimsonros2

Finché = as long Finché non= until


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GuerraAmanda

Yea, because when the dog is found he/she won't wait anymore x)))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wallacebottacin

I also think it makes more sense when you look at "finché" as "as long as".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Unknowntyper

Big help... That works so much better

I'll wait so long as you do not find the dog....

Man, that had me stuck.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/XlUi8bZ7

Sorry, that doesnt make any sense to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valeriaSor484144

Thanks, so a negstive CAN go intoo a sentence without a negative in the English. I was totally stumped.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruckelhaxan

Finché non is the expression for until. Think of it as finché alone means as long as.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Monimaboo

Also fino a but it was not accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WalterZAMB4

One word for "so long as" is "while"!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/farita6

That is a brilliant way to look at it. Learning a new language is also about perspective. Thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredGassit1

So this 'finché' needs the non to make it 'until not'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elon_the_Hittite

Not quite. 'Finché' means 'as/so long as'; it indicates an indefinite period of time. When something happens to terminate that period, in English we then use the word 'until', a different expression altogether. However, Italian does it more simply: the word 'non' is added to 'finché' to indicate the termination. The shorter form in Italian is the longer form in English; the longer in Italian, the shorter in English. Hope this helps.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bettemc

Thank you. That explains it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzInAZ1950

I think this statement using "non" is very confusing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PyriteSky

I was going to mention the same thing! the only way i picked it is because it was the only option with "cane"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/selamyohan

I know it's been a few years since you commented, but for those seeking the answer, here's what I figured out:

In English "negatives" cancel each other out.

These two sentences mean the opposite things:

I did find the dog.----------------------I did not find the dog.

(dog was found)------------------------(dog was not found)

Both of them switch if you add 'not'. So:

I did NOT find the dog.----------------------I did NOT not find the dog.

(dog was not found)---------------------- (dog was found)

However in other languages, including Italian, negatives are additive. That is they emphasize the point, rather than change the meaning.

So "Io aspetto finché non trovi il cane" and "Io aspetto finché trovi il cane" mean the same thing (even if the 2nd sentence isn't as proper).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David126947

finche = while I wait while you don't find the dog


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/German4me22

Finché means 'As long as'.. I wait as long as you don't find the dog in other words I wait until you find the dog....Finché non means Until.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brito174

Io aspetto finché tu trovi il cane= I wait until you find the dog= portuguese Eu espero até você encontrar o cão.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/theduolingan

I answered 'Io aspetto finché non tu trovi il cane', but I was penalized for that ! What's wrong in using 'tu' after 'non' in the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vzhtpx

Just a note on the word order, "Non tu trovi" is incorrect because "non" always inserts itself between the personal pronoun and the verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Turboslak

Io aspetto finché tu non trovi il cane


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OkeyLowkey

Strange! I wrote: "aspetto finché tu trovi il cane" and was not penalised. Somebody has to explain why after «finché non", tu is not correct but correct if only "finché" used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TiagoSaboga

I am really not sure, but it seems to me that the non is not required here, just usual. French has a similar construction (ne explétif). If you want to use both tu and non, you have to put them in the right order: the negation comes between subject and verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uppergardiner

Yes, exactly the same in French, especially with "avant que, après que, sans que".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zirrex

The same in Russian with "пока не", where the negation is preferred, but not compulsory, and the meaning is the same anyway


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/al_ex_s

I've also thought immediately of Russian. "Non" seems to be really confusing to many people here. Actually, as in Russian, there is no logic behind, one just have to accept the fact that in some phrases in some languages whether you use negation ("non") or not - the meaning does not change. Like in this phraze in Italian and in Russian - "подожду, пока найдёшь", "подожду, пока не найдёшь" - same meaning. It is confusing as hell and has simply to be accepted by language learners as is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlanKaigel

Same in Czech language, so probably in all slavic languages


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kelseyko

I wrote that and it said i was wrong, that the correct answer was the same without "tu" (and also no "non")!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Xytaglyph

same thing happened to me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sammydoodles

I read in another thread that it's easier to read 'finché non' as 'until' and I haven't struggled with it since.

By using it this way, it's clearer to see it simply as 'until+verb' since 'non' isn't translated to form the negative in the sentence.

Finché non trovi = Until you find

Finché non leggi = Until you read


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoaZonis

finche non actually means as long as ____ do/does not ....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LiKenun

Programmers will understand that “while not” is equivalent to “until”. This sentence is doing just that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grege2

Exactly, great comment. do ( x ) while not ( y ) === do ( x ) until ( y )


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kedeljer

How can both 'finché' and 'finché non' be used here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobBlaney

Why couldn't I use "aspetto finchè trova il cane"? Any reason the formal "you" can't be used?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dnovinc

I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elleasar

I guess it would be too confusing, because it can mean the 3rd person singular, too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StevenEric11

It should be trovi because it's you singular


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sharinglanguage

Fino was considered wrong. I thought it meant Until too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hubacek

"Fino a che" it's also correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sharinglanguage

Thank you. I don't remember now how I used it exactly.:p


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JuergenZirak

What exactly is the role of the 'che' here? (Just "...fino a trovi...") was not accepted. Put differently, when can "fino a" be used alone?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Fino = till
Fino a = up to (till a specific moment in time or space)
Fino a che = finché = up to that (something happens) = as long as (event) ~ while (event)

Finché non = as-long-as not (something happens) = until


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoaZonis

non capisco l'italiano


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Turboslak

Forse è un po' difficile qualche volta, ma non perdere la fiducia!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jrrysn

What is the difference between finche` and fino?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EdaSaydan

My understanding is: "Finché" means (as long as - while - whilst - in so far as - till - until) - there is no time limitation "Fino" means (up to, until) - there is a time limitation I hope it makes sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flibbo

And like mentioned in a comment above - finché is a short word for fino a che.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dripdrip1

I used 'fino a' instead of 'fince non'. Does anyone know why it was incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hubacek

Finché = fino a che It's just a contraction


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/selamyohan

except that "Io aspetto fino a che trovi il cane" is also marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FlorianRed2

Because you forgot the non.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nomaddie

except that "aspetto fino a che non trovi il cane" is also marked wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eluzie

Grazie tanto, ora capisco!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marina.MN

"you" is both for the second person plural AND singular. why was I penalized for matching both trovate and trovi?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flibbo

if the rest was right, report it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Likini

great i like guessing...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jo_Tran_91

Ok just understand that "finché non" means "until" And "finché" means "as long as". That would be easier if you don't mind about that " non"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wbl56
  • 1689

Why not "fino a"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Because the following verb "trovi" is conjugated.

Use "fino a" up to (a point in time or space) , ~ until, (unless it's followed by a conjugated verb).
Fino alle otto = up to the eight (hours) ~ until 8 a clock
Fino al ristorante = up to the restaurant ~ until (at) the restaurant
Fino a oggi = until today
Fino alla morte = until the death

Use "finché" (fino+a+che) = up to that (event) ~ as long as /while
Finché vuoi = As long as you want
Finché mi ami = As long as you love me
Finché vivrò = As long as I live

Finché non (event) = as-long-as not (event) ~ while not (event) ~ until event
Finche non muoio = as long as I not die ~ until I die
Finche non mi ami = as long as you don't love me ~ until you love me
Finché morte non ci separi ~ until death do us apart


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flibbo

did not try, but apparently you can use fino a che non - the long expression for finché non


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Timiren

Why is bad when I write: "Io aspetto finché non tu trovi il cane." I know that "tu" does not need to be there. But can it be here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Naekso

Aspetto finche non trovi il cane IS THE RIGHT ANSWER AS WELL AS Io aspetto finche non trovi il cane


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/angelikialex13

I read all of the comments but it still isn't clear to me... "Io aspetto finché tu trovi il cane" wouldn't be correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grege2

We've studied this in regular Italian class. Strictly finche is "as long as", a variant of "while" if you like, so finche non trovi is "as long as/while you don't find the dog", which means "until you do find the dog". But the non is optional in everyday usage. The meaning is clear with or without the non. http://blogs.transparent.com/italian/finch-o-finch-non/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pandamiles

So the more literal translation in English should be " i wait as long as you dont find the dog" - less elegant but more logical.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/slance828

Grrr. I didnt put Io in front of Aspetto and Duo said it was wrong. This happens sometimes he wants it sometimes he doesnt.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elena92962

We use double negatives in Greek, too. eg: I don't want nothing, I don't know nothing. So i suppose we just have to accept the different ways that come with each language and nit try to translate word for word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nitzanfilu

I tell you this... Those who told me Italian is easy to learn had completely mislead me and they were counting on the fact I'll fall in love with it and break my teeth to crack it eventually. Tnx grandma


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/XlUi8bZ7

Gave you a lingot for that. You are so right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Giuseppe402154

Why start the sentence with "io" and not just "aspetto"??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ted878225

It is unusual to start with "Io" unless you want to emphasize it is "me", and not someone else.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StringerRobert

Got this from the inter web Be careful with ‘finché’, ‘finché non’ and ‘affinché’!

‘Affinché’ is straightforward. It means ‘in order to’.

‘Finché’ is much trickier. It can often be translated as ‘until’, though its meaning may change when used with the negation ‘non’.

When the meaning of finché is ‘fino al momento in cui’, the use of the negative adverb ‘non’ is optional. For example:

Studiavo finché mi sono addormentato. = Studiavo finché non mi sono addormentato. (= fino al momento in cui mi sono addormentato.)

Tutto andava bene finché cominciò a piovere. = Tutto andava bene finché non cominciò a piovere.

In contrast, when finché means ‘per tutto il tempo che’, the use of ‘non’ completely changes the meaning of the sentence. For example:

Sono stato bene finché ho abitato a Roma = Sono stato bene per tutto il tempo che sono stato a Roma.

Sono stato bene finché non ho abitato a Roma = Sono stato bene prima di andare a vivere a Roma.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anne609994

Is it really necessary to put "io" in----aspetto surely means I---


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paperino188645

in italian language "finchè" and "sino a che" are the same thing


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pending-Tray

"Aspetto finché non tu trovi il cane" was seen as error and the correct one was "Io aspetto finché non trovi il cane". Am I missing something?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

You do not need an extra tu as it's included in trovi = you find


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pending-Tray

I understand that I do not NEED the "tu" but why is it wrong to use "tu trovi"? In the same way why is "Io aspetto" ok and not just "Aspetto"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EleonoreMa327512

I wrote "Aspetto finche non tu trovi il cane" and it was WRONG. How is it when I choose to delete the pronoun it's wrong and when they do it...it's right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Yes, - it's frustrating to learn and to make mistakes. But if we just keep trying we will eventually get it.

As the pronoun is 'built into' the verb conjugation most times you do not use an extra pronoun, - and in this sentens it's redundant. *1

But sometimes, for clarity or for emphasis, you add the pronoun, normally at the beginning or end of the sentence, e.g. 'Pago io', I pay, -meaning that you are insisting / making it clear that you will pay . . . and in this case perhaps also because you feel that 'pago' in itself is too short and does not sound good.

*1 Unless you really want to stress that it's you who should find the dog.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dfjacobs

'tu' should precede 'non'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JC.in-Florida

Socto say "Io aspetto" versus "aspetto" ...why is it marked WRONG? So, isn't the pronoun optional?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Racile

Io aspetto finché trovi il cane, why wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Turboslak

You forgot "non"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Racile

Must "non" be always attached to finche? thanks in advance


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdiYan12

Ciao. finché non would be usually until. and finché (without the non) would be while. hope this helps :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Racile

It helps a lot, thanks :) here is a lingot


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheGoldenOwl

I used 'Aspetto (I wait) finché (until) trovi (you find) il cane (the dog)' which was marked as correct. Hope it helped.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iothemic

Ihr konnt nicht ein herz stehlen wenn you steht. Wer weiss ob sing. Oder plural.. Ich schrieb sing. Aber ihr sagt plural.. Das ist gemein. Jetzt muss ich von vorne beginnen :-C


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flibbo

Offizielle Antwort ist auch Singular.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marielporcelli

I put a "tu" before the verb but it said the tu being in it at all was wrong. why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Monsignore

Yeah, this "non" is a bit confusing. I would definitely use the 1st variant.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thealux

It is not a negative phrase!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thealux

It is not a negative phrase!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

finché = as long as
finché non = as long as not ~ until


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YahirMartinez

Here you are, You can use "non" optionally, only if there is an action at the same time. Example: Tutto andava bene finché (non) cominciò a piovere.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jollyroger69

Wouldn't non trovi indicate I I do not vs. I do find? Where does non come into a sentence? I know you'll come back with an answer to justify why but to me non does not belong given what sentence says.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ryoukon.

see https://blogs.transparent.com/italian/finch-o-finch-non/

finché non should be "read" as one word: until.

finché should be read as: as long as/while.

so an understandable transation would be: as long as you don't find the dog, i'll wait (with the outcome that the dog will be found). No waiting needed anymore after that. But it's better to not fall back on such translations and learn in Italian (or whatever language your learning) in it's own context. Some things don't have (nice) direct translations. So forget the negative connotation and just remember: finché non means until and finché as long as/while.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carolfair

I just don't get it ...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ello_Adipose

In this case 'non' means 'until'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BhrzNeshat

What do 'non' does here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AbelMed1

Urgh! So I double checked using my phones translator app. It appears duolingo wants you to learn their way. "A Duolingo Italian speaker" ha!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AbelMed1

Io aspetto finchè vuoi trovare il cane ❤❤❤❤❤❤


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flibbo

Bit confused here. What kind of translator app do you have? How can it make perfect translations. None I know can.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Raven_Whisper

I didnt use 'non' and got it right. why is it optional?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tha127788

Esta frase é negativa... "non trovi il cane"... Non ho capisco niente!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flibbo

as long as I do not find the dog = until I find the dog


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SungsooOh

"io aspetto finché voi trovi il cane" is not incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MelissaHoe2

why does this say NON trovi? wouldn't that mean you don't find the dog?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ryoukon.

it's not "non trovi", but "finché non", which means "until".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdhamAli0

some thing wrong non trovi suppesed to be finche trvoi il cane it does not match with the eng


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SheilaCy

Thanks for the explanation. I was completely bamboozled until I read the suggestion that you could read it as 'as long as.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrewDali

I wrote the sentence without "non" and it is correct for me..!! But I can't understand this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidRussnak

Is there a more literal way to translate this? The translation given is confusing and seems like it's not necessarily the best way to express this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaduBunda

Why is "Aspetto finche trovi il cane" incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertTard2

You'll not be finding the dog once it is found. Then your wait will end. Think about it that way. It's actually quite logical.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Handrisuselo

The word "finché" is very tricky. Be alert!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Val361271

Can you say 'Aspetto mentre trovi il cane?'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berlin1929

Why can you not say: Aspetto fino a tu trovi il tuo cane ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gemo-1

why the answer in wrong with the pronoun (tu), Io aspetto finché non tu trovi il cane


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pennelli

I was marked wrong for using "fino a". Could someone explain why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flibbo

read somwhere else finché is short for fino a che so you are missing words


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PennyMannel

It also accepted my answer "Io aspetto finché trovi il cane." How can both a positive and negative be correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mal876365

i wrote aspetto fino che trovi il cane why is that wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jazger

I wrote 'Aspetto finché trovi il cane' and it was right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jazger

When do you use 'fino a' for until


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rich453371

Why is "Aspetto finché non tu trovi il cane" wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/farita6

I put "Io aspetto finche trovi il cane" and they marked it correct. Is that a mistake or are both accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nelma746081

The sentence is in the affirmative


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruckelhaxan

Why marked as wrong because of "tu trovi" instead of just "trovi"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruckelhaxan

What's wrong with "Aspetto finché non voi trovate il cane"? According to Duo it isn't correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda497180

You really never know when they want you to use io. It's a crap shoot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Drubah

Your answer is: 'I wait until you find the dog' - why is there a 'non' in the sentence? I've seen your replies but truly it doesn't seem right. Is that what an Italian would say? thanks Sheila


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruckelhaxan

Finché non is an expression, which translates with "until".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FabrizioCo82182

Se non conoscete l'italiano non ne fate cirsi


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brito174

If the people do not to find will wait until the end, has the same signification. Io aspetto finché tu trovi il cane. Eu espero até você encontrar o cão. Eu espero até você não encontrar o cão. Io aspetto finché tu non trovi il cane.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AngelaNann

Aspetto di trovare il cane


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruckelhaxan

Means I wait to find the dog.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AngelaNann

Io aspettero finché non trovi il cane


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruckelhaxan

Means I will wait until you find the dog. But you left out the grave accent on the "o" in aspetterò (= 1st person singular of futuro semplice).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanaBreg1

Mentre means while. Why can't i say i wait while you find the dog


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valyo8

You are right, while is mentre, but both they mean more or less "during". Here we have a time limit set - "until" translated as "finche' ".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valyo8

I was surprised too at the first moment about the correctness of the "...non trovi...", then I realized is the same in my, Bulgarian language, both correct: "...докато намериш кучето" and "...докато не намериш кучето". I suppose is same in other Slavic languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Annie278642

This comment was so helpful. I could never get it right until the meaning behind it was explained. Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertTard2

Why isn't 'Aspetto finche non tu trovi il cane.' correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StevieSculpts

This is totally confusing me how "non" is used here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertTard2

I think about it like this: When some one is NOT looking for the dog, it means the dog has been found. Then, I need wait no longer. This seems to work for me in deciding how and when to use 'non'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sky_Larme

why fino a doesnt work here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StringerRobert

As long as makes perfect sense to me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stam2510

I wrote "io aspetto finché trovi il cane" and it was marked correct and it just said "io aspetto finché non trovi il cane" was another solution. I read through these comments and I get why the non is there but now I am confused. Are both sentences correct? Can we omit the non from "finché non" and it's still alright or does that sentence have a different meaning? Or was Duolingo wrong when it marked my answer correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sandmangpd

why would tu trovi be wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JudySilver2

I don't understand why you use NON which means NOT


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArtieSF

Think of it like this, "until" means it hasn't happened yet so it implies a negative. So you translate it to "Io aspetto, fiche non, trovi il cane"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/davideanelli

said fino a quando is the same to said finchè


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OU_812

"Aspetto a fino che trovi il cane". Is this sentence wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StringerRobert

Italians seem to prefer a double negative, which English speakers abhor!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David126947

It's not really double negative, it's just "whilst" instead of "until" Until A=true, is the same as saying While A is not true


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sumemon

why is fino a marked incorrect


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/davidgarrett2016

Non...means that he will not find the dog?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David126947

Io aspetto finché non trovi il cane.

I wait.

Whilst.

You don't find.

The dog.

If you think of finche as "whilst" instead of until, I think it makes more sense.

In other words, when you DO find the dog, I will stop having to wait....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KJR3113

Why was "aspetto finches non il trovi il cane" rejected


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Degge61

why can't I use 'fino a'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LesleySaun3

I agree, this doesn't seem to make sense but maybe later in the course it will.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gian762

Could this not be written as "Io aspetto finché (Lei) non trova il cane." ?? This being with the intention that the "you" is the formal "Lei".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SchubertNo21

'Until', when used as a conjunction (it is also used as a preposition) translates as finché non or fino a quando. In negative sentences where the two verbs have the same subject, 'not until ' is translated as 'prima di + infinitive. NB: Copied from my Oxford Paravia Italin dictionary


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/egregor1

DL will not accept trova here, insists on trovi. Why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David126947

There's lots of comments.... you find=trovi.

he/she finds=trova


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Innos_Zorn

Aspetto fino trovi il cane was considered wrong! Did i miss anything? Imo it is correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaveLitwak

Why is it `non trove'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BedirhanYilmazz

Why was "Aspetto finche' non trovi il cane." not accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Perhaps because it's finché and it seems you wrote finche' . . . ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BedirhanYilmazz

There is no way I was able to type the accent properly. but I did it in the lesson.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David126947

If you typed the accent correctly, or just left it as e, it would have been accepted. Either you put an apostrophe afterwards, or you did something else wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatheIrwin

Can someone tell me why, "Aspetto fino a trovi il cane" is incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theo639847

Until is in my opinion confusing as translation. In fact I will wait as long As long he has not find the dog. In this case not confusing. Waiting Until he has not found the dog means I can leave now because he does not find the at this very moment.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael61530

The answer I gave was "Aspetto fino a trovi il cane" which was deemed incorrect. If "fino a" is listed as one of the three translations of the word until, why is it not correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RickSegovi1

Is aspetto che trovi il cane More or less accurate?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

That means something like "I wait that you find the dog.", - and I think that's less accurate . . . ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShawnDutch

My sentence was correct. I just added the word tu


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dorys163375

found the response below with all the comment below . great !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Val430176

Tha nk you, it makes sense now


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lorraine382671

I don't understand why there is "non" before trovi?????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/michaelmcgeehan

Thanks for explanations


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JaneAnnegu

Helpful. Grazie


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/becky553011

I'm still struggling to understand when fino is used for until and when it is finché non.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Fino = till / up to (a point in time or space)
Finché (fino+a+che) = up to that (an event happens) = as long as (event)
Finché non = as-long-as not (event) = until (event)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jackie996043

Why have they put a non which is negative when finding the dog is a positive


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

Please read my comments from weeks ago. But basically it is just the Italian construction of the sentence, I know it is counter-intuitive, but you have to take it as it is.

But think about it like this: Someone is willing to wait all that time the other person CAN NOT find the dog (that's where "non" comes from). As soon as that person finds the dog the waiting is over. So that "non" relates to the period of waiting/looking for that dog. I know that Italian is so different from many languages, one can't just translate word for word and word order for the same order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlesJaz

This has to be the dumbest translation in this lesson. Makes no sense. And for arguments sake, it does make sense in Italian, it doesn't belong in this lesson because i can say it the way we're taught in Italian and it would still make sense. These are so frustrating when you get them wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryJudith12

WHY is it incorrect to say :io aspetto finche non TU trovi il cane????? instead of just "trovi il cane"???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dfjacobs

The subject 'tu' must precede the 'non.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Harkil

I wrote finché without "non". It was accepted. 05/09/2020


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanHearnd

Im sat here with my Italian friend in Bologna and he said that both with and without version work.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jane643611

Ok, I've read the posts regarding the confusing "non" part of the sentence and it sort of makes sense but seems very long winded. I put "asspetto fino a tu trovi il cane" as my answer which was wrong, but in Google translation it says it's correct. Would that be acceptable to the Italian ear or would it sound like I'd mangled their beautiful language?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

I think it's a nice try . . . but the owl is much better at Italian than Goggle translator.

Good stuff:
- fino a = up to a (point in time or space) ~ until
- trovi = you find
- il cane = the dog

Things to improve:
- To many s in as<sub><sub>s</sub></sub>petto
- The 'tu' is unnecessary or at least in the wrong place.
- As 'trovi' is a conjugated verb (an event rather than a spot in time or space) it cannot be used together with 'fino a'. Here we need 'finché' *(fino+a+che) = up to that (event).

I wait = aspetto
until = finche non (up to that + not)
trovi il cane = find the dog

I wait up to that not you find the dog ~
I wait until you find the dog


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MigiSmallz

How about "io aspetto fino trovi il cane" - is that completely wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UbwFYffR

When you find the dog, I stop waiting for you to find it. So I wait as long as the dog is NOT yet found. That is a reason given in this lesson for "non", which is missing in your translation. I hope this helps.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EleonoreMa327512

Aspetto finche non tu trovi il cane...ISN'T THAT THE SAME????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

No, it is not the same.
Let’s put aside the pronoun issue.
“ non tu” = “not you”
So your sentence would mean something like:
“I wait until not you (someone else then) find the dog”, but it is even not that, as it is incorrect.
To make the sentence correct “non” has to be placed before the verb.
And now we can talk about the use of the pronoun.
I believe Italians would drop it.
If you’d use the “tu” then it changes the meaning of the whole sentence.
It is like you have a bunch of people and you want to stress that a particular person is looking for the dog. So you are pointing at the person and you stress the word YOU so everybody knows who you are talking to.
But in the DL sentence you should omit the pronoun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bobby775846

I can't make my keyboard make the letter you want. In the finche..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Salvatore659873

Finché or fino a quando it is the same


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rosamund850205

Me too. Thank you for the explanation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/volsvixen

Why not mentre instead of finché non?

Aspetto mentre trovi il cane.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

“mentre” = “while/during”. I believe that after “mentre” you should put a infinitive of the verb, so instead of “trovi” it has to be “trovare”.
But it still doesn’t make much sense as “trovare” means “to find”.
So your sentence goes like this: “I wait during finding of the dog”.
I think “searching” or “search” (“cercare”) would be better here, but still wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nielzv8

This is not correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nielzv8

This is not correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mpeck2

Thanks Eda - well explained


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HebeYanina

En inglés la frase tiene sentido de afirmación. Por qué en italiano tiene una negación? Parece que las frases no corresponden entre sí


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

Because this is how they express this thought in Italian, using double negation
Read other comments on this forum, they explain how it works


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PATRICKPIZ1

nope. no double negative here. there are two terms: 'finché' and 'finché non'. this 'non' is not connected to the verb which can be positive or negative. '

'finché' means 'as long as' and 'finché non' means 'until'.

"Io aspetto finché non trovi il cane." (i'll wait until you find the dog)

"Io non aspetto finché non trovi il cane." (i won't wait until you find the dog)

"Io aspetto finché trovi il cane." (i'll wait as long as you find the dog)

"Io non aspetto finché trovi il cane." (i won't wait as long as you find the dog.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

You are right, technically it is not a double negation.
I do not have to think twice how to express these thoughts as in my native language we use exactly the same construction as in Italian, so this part is easy for me. (but I have to work hard on clitics).

By the way, everyone who wants to understand the difference between finché and finché non should watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfGnin29b-0


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanBerma

What is the difference between finche non and fino a?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

It's a bit complicated as it depends on how it's used . . .

  • fino = till/up to (a certain point in time or space)

fino a le 8 = up to the 8 (hours) ~ until 8 a clock
fino a casa = as far as home ~ until (we're) home

  • finché (fino-a-che) = up-to-that (event) ~ as long as ~ while

finché sei mio = as long as you are mine ~ while you are mine
finché vorai = as long as you want

  • finché non = as-long-as/while not ~ until

Finché non muio = as long as not I die ~ while I am not dying = until I die

The following use rules and examples are from a comment by mmseiple in another discussion:

Use "fino a" to mean "until" when it is followed by a noun (for example, "fino alla morte" = up to the death ~ until death ) and for describing a specific moment ("fino alle 8").

Use "fino a non" to mean "until" with an infinitive if there is no change in subject: "Lavorerà fino a non raggiungere il suo obiettivo." (He will work until he meets his goal.) Here the same person is doing the action of "lavorerà" and "raggiungere," so we can use the infinitive.

Use "finché non" or "fino a quando non" to mean "until" when it is followed by a conjugated verb (not an infinitive): "Non saremo felici finché non ci sia la pace."

  • So to go back to "fino a" vs. "finché," - you want to use "finché" (or "finché non") when it is followed by a conjugated verb e.g.:

Io aspetto finché non trovi il cane.

As this is using the conjugated verb "trovi" we rather need to use "finche non" and not "fino a".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carlo736304

Grazie!!! Your grammatical explanation makes so much more sense to me than any that gave a mere vocabulary translation. Grazie ancora!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mike.mansueto

what is the purpose or meaning of the "non" in the sentence above. On the surface, I would translate it to "you do not find."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

And you are quite right.
I wait as long as you don’t find the dog.
But when you find the dog the waiting is over (and we can go for a walk or do whatever we were planning to do)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bernadette692317

why is non in that sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Guilherme653613

So the non trovi is like a subjunctive, because it is not certain that you will find the pooch?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mariateres179105

Why is tu trovi marked incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mariateres179105

Why was tu trovi incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

To make the sentence correct “non” has to be placed before the verb.
But still, the pronoun tu isn’t necessary here. Italians would drop it.
If you’d use the “tu” then it changes the meaning of the whole sentence.
It is like you have a bunch of people and you want to stress that a particular person is looking for the dog. So you are pointing at the person and you stress the word YOU so everybody knows who you are talking to.
But in the DL sentence you should omit the pronoun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Krisse344252

Why is "Io aspetto finché non tu trovi il cane" marked wrong, why cannot there be tu?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Magie594685

doesn't this mean "I will wait till you (don't )find the dog" I know it doesn't make sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flibbo

I wait as long as you don't find the dog. .. since you would not say it like that in english the proper translation is until you do


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jen795561

It just said " Io aspetto finche trovi il cane" was correct, why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdrianaRom679969

Why "ti aspetto finche non trovi il cane" is wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

Because it is: ”I wait...“ (“Io aspetto...”)
and ti means ”you/to you” which doesn’t fit this sentence at all


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Remove the ti, (to you) and it's correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan822324

Why can't it be trova?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flibbo

trova - he she it
trovi - you


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

trova is also YOU, (polite/formal YOU)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flibbo

Oh, good to know. So 'Io aspetto finché non trova il cane.' should be an accepted answer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Harrie901070

You can also be plural


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mackscorp

Io aspetto finché trovi il cane = I'll wait while you find the dog. It makes more sense to me... I might have the influence of Spanish.. "Te espero, (yo espero) mientras encuentras el perro"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Valeria211718

I don't understand the use of the negative in this case


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

This video explains the use of finché:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfGnin29b-0

Plus there is many comments on this forum answering your doubts


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marta662767

Non? I wait until you DON'T find the dog. I am missing something.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LiatKirby

So, 'mentre', meaning 'while', cannot also be used for 'until' (finche)? And I don't understand the inclusion of 'non' in this sentence, so please explain. thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

Your question has been answered many times on this forum, just read the previous comments, please:
https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/432714?comment_id=48492255

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/432714?comment_id=44395194


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gaynor931141

I keep writing the correct answer and it is being refused?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

COPY/PASTE your sentence so we could see it, please


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eric5318008

Oh boy, i sure do love practicing italian, i hope no sentence comes along that completely messes up my whole understanding of how i percieve italian sentence structure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

I’d advise you to watch this 5 min video, pause it when needed, write down all examples and you’ll see how it works.
And read the comments, it’s been explained very well:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HfGnin29b-0


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Peter787755

'finche non TU trovi il cane' is incorrect. Anybody know why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ladyzaba

Is it really finché, not finchè? I've thought there is no é in Italian...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fmirkan

Can't i translate it as "io aspetto fino a tu trovi il cane"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Io aspetto fino a tu trovi il cane = I wait until you find the dog.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

With a small modification you are correct: Io aspetto fino a tu trovi il cane.

Io aspetto = I wait
fino a = as long/far as ~ until
trovi = you find
il cane = the dog

I have made a previous comment on the meaning and use of fino and finché here


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carlo736304

Why not "Aspetto fino a non trovi il cane"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Aspetto = I wait
fino a ~ until (up to a point in time or space)
non trovi = not you find = you do not find
il cane = the dog

I wait until you don't find the dog . . .

I have left a more detailed explanation in this comment


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SonoMarie

When is it finché non and when fino a ..?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Think I made a comment on that recently . . . here . . or here


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jagerboy96

Okay, this may not be popular opinion, but I think proper English would be "I WILL wait until you find the dog". ? This is in the psat tense, but it sounds more proper.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

First, it is not in the past tense.
And the Duo translation mirrors more the Italian sentence.
Check this out. This video explains the use of finché:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfGnin29b-0


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShelbyTemple

Why is it marked wrong when I use trovate instead of trovi?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

To answer your question we have to see the whole sentence. COPY/PASTE your sentence so we can see it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KarenMcCann51

That makes no sense to me at all and have had no reference to it in the 13 months I've been on this frustrating course, but thank you. One more thing to add to the very long list of things they expect us to know with no explanation...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

This sentence means pretty much this:
"I wait as long as you don’t find the dog."
But when you find the dog the waiting is over

And please watch this video (it explains the use of finché): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfGnin29b-0


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rosamaria170767

Why can't tu be in the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Barbara621327

Why do you need to say "non" trovi il cane. Why cant you say: io aspetto finche trovi il cane ?????? I do not understand.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flibbo

It's explained several times here. But maybe this clarifies it more -
Basically your proposal would translate to: 'I wait as long as i find the dog.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/junkyardphantom

When do you use finchè vs fino a?? And is there another one that I'm forgetting??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BobMak2

I thought if the subject of the verb changes i.e. 'I wait'.... 'You find' it was necessary to use 'che' before the second verb? So: Io aspetto finche non che trovi il cane?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

No, ”che” doesn’t make sense here.
Please watch this video, it explains pretty well the use of finché and finché non:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfGnin29b-0


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NadinaMaria22

can't stand this stupid sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

Hm, what is so stupid about this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flibbo

I'm guessing it's projection ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/call0105

It said I was wrong for adding tu before trovi. Why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

”tu” is embedded in the conjugated verb ”trovare”
but please read this explanation:
https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/432714?comment_id=46962053


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JudieAlban

I included tu before trovi and was marked wrong. Why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flibbo

Please read the other questions and answers before posting literally the same question again.
https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/432714?comment_id=55877843


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vranaris06

"Aspetto che tu trovi il cane" shouldn't be also accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Aspetto che tu = I wait that you
trovi il cane = you find the dog

~ I wait that you find the dog


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MartyTan

I put "tu trovi" instead of just "trovi" for you find and it was marked wrong? Is this and error on Duolingo's part?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rosamaria170767

Why is" tu trovi "not alliwed


[deactivated user]

    Sometimes when I use the subject pronoun it is correct and other times it is not.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

    In this case you can say:
    - Io aspetto…
    - Aspetto…

    and both are correct


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ellenmartucci

    So is it wrong to include the personal pronoun as in "aspetto finché non tu trovi il carne"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ellenmartucci

    Yes, yes, yes. Thank you!

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