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  5. "Léine gheal."

"Léine gheal."

Translation:A bright shirt.

August 29, 2014

62 Comments

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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Klaheen

Why does lenition occur here? Maybe I'm missing something but it doesn't seem to fall under any of the situations in which lenition occurs....

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/toOliya

Singular feminine nouns cause lenition of the following adjective. Léine is feminine singular.

December 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/teangasabhosca

there shouldn't be lenition here, it's the beta's mistake. "geal" would only lenited if there was an article before "léine". you're not missing a thing :)

November 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

No, this lenition is correct — see toOliya’s comment. (But note that singular feminine nouns in the genitive case do not lenite their attributive adjectives.)

December 26, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mungome

Why this one needs an article? "bright shirt" was marked wrong.

August 29, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

It’s been fixed to no longer require an indefinite article.

December 26, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CJ.Dennis

Why doesn't this require an indefinite article?

April 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Because a literal translation of an indefinite word doesn’t require an indefinite article in English, e.g. as a headword in an English dictionary.

April 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CJ.Dennis

@andyroo93 I'd already covered that. If you need quotes around it, it doesn't count because it's outside normal grammar. "shirt" is just short for "The word 'shirt'".

April 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CJ.Dennis

I'd still like an example where you would use "bright shirt" without a determiner, and without referring to its meaning (i.e. as a translation or a dictionary entry).

April 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

In a set of instructions: “Remove bright shirt from packaging.”

April 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CJ.Dennis

OK! Let me start using your rule. "Because literal translation of indefinite word doesn't require indefinite article in English, e.g. as headword in English dictionary."

April 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

If that sentence were a literal translation of an indefinite word, then that would be a fine counterexample.

April 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CJ.Dennis

But I don't talk like a dictionary! If someone says "What are you wearing?" I won't respond by saying "Shirt" or "Bright shirt" (unless I'm about to drop from exhaustion). I'd say "A shirt" or "A bright shirt". Can you give me any examples where you'd use a countable noun in English without a determiner (apart from saying "the word 'shirt'" or similar)?

April 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

“I drink beverages.”

EDIT: Updated my example to accommodate CJ.Dennis’ unnoted modification to his comment after having written my first example.

April 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andyroo93

An example is when someone asks you what 'léine' means in English and you reply, 'shirt'.

April 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CJ.Dennis

OK! Thanks for that! I think my point has now been proven that in everyday usage, a determiner is needed. It's only dropped in dictionaries or headlines (instructions can follow the same rules as headlines). You would never use it this way in formal writing or casual speech.

April 29, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

It wouldn’t be used that way in formal writing (excepting dictionaries ;*) ), but it could be used that way in casual speech — e.g. if you meet a friend and you’re uncharacteristically wearing a bright shirt, your friend might greet you by saying “Whoa — bright shirt!”.

April 29, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SkyDragonp

Why isn't it "the bright shirt" then "a bright shirt" someone answer my question pls thnx

September 15, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CHarrell13

There's no definite article ("the"/"an"). EDIT: That's the Irish definite article, which just happens to be almost identical to the English indefinite article...

September 15, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silvith

a word like geal in dutch, geel, means yellow. So close. So confusing :)

June 14, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/I2cGAc67

Well, yellow is a bright color. Wonder if there is an Indo-European linguistic connection : )

December 5, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Dutch geel has a common Proto-Indo-European root with Irish glas ; that root word meant “green, yellow”. Irish geal comes from a different Proto-Indo-European root meaning “to shine”.

April 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TreasaWilson

The first time geal appeared i checked and it said bright or light, but when I translated this as a light shirt I got an incorrect. It has to be a bright shirt. Doesn't make sense.

January 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

English uses one word for two very different qualities - Irish uses two different words. When people refer to "a light shirt" is a shirt, they mean one that isn't heavy - léine éadrom.

January 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TreasaWilson

It could also mean light in colour as opposed to dark (as in a dark suit).

January 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

It could. But it doesn't - that's a "light-coloured suit".

January 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TreasaWilson

That was just an example. Any way the point is, why does duolingo say it means either bright or light as alternatives, then say one of them is wrong the next time the word appears?

January 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

Because translation isn't a mechanical word for word exercise (if it was we would have had reliable machine translation decades ago).

You weren't asked to translate the word geal, you were asked to translate the phrase léine gheal, and in that context, "light" is a misleading translation, because English uses the word "light" for two very different concepts, and the default understanding of most English speakers when the read "a light shirt" is "not heavy", rather than "bright".

January 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Machnoir

As said already by others, in English, a light 'shirt' or any other piece of clothing generally refers to its weight/fabric etc.

Even considering it to be a 'light-coloured' shirt doesn't accurately describe 'bright' or 'geal'.

There is always light during the day, but it isn't always bright during the day.

When clothing is referred to as 'bright', it is being highlighted that it isn't dull. This could relate to both its colour and design.

There can also be a significant difference between something which is 'light-coloured' and 'bright-coloured'. Light colours are often muted or dull, while bright colours are the opposite.

Buy paint, and you'll see the different between 'light yellow' and 'bright yellow'.

Therefore, I think it makes sense that light isn't considered correct. The sun always shines light, it doesn't always shine bright.

August 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WilliamIre4

Why does geal need an lenition so its gheal?

May 5, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

Because léine is a feminine noun, and "attributive adjectives agree with the noun in case, number and gender", so geal is lenited so that it agrees in gender with the léine.

May 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/david.r.linn

Why is 'a light shirt' wrong?

August 20, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

The NEID indicates that geal as an attributive adjective would not be used to mean “light” in the sense of “pale-colored”. However, geal- can be used as part of a compound word to indicate such a color, e.g. gealbhuí  for “light yellow”.

April 26, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/david.r.linn

Thanks - this was not clear from the lessons so far or I simply missed it. I had also never heard of the NEID so that pointer alone is worth another "Thanks!"

April 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TGallchoir

why does take a ' H ' ? what is the rule ?

July 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1222

The process of adding that h is called "lenition" and it's presence in this exercise is explained twice in the earlier comments.

You can also read more about lenition in the Tips & Notes for the Lenition skill

July 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TGallchoir

go raibh maith agat mo chara . Tigim anois é chuaigh mé ar ais aris.

July 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeMalone372235

I hear 'Léinn í gheal' here. Anybody else?

August 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andyroo93

So is geal right or should it actually be gheal? Also, is her pronunciation right? I heard it as a fricative rather than a y-sound, but maybe I heard it wrong. I think the IPA for that fricative thing I heard is that j-looking thing. I just want to clarify this. People don't seem to have much confidence in her pronunciations.

August 1, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

See toOliya‘s comment above for the answer to your first question — but note that singular feminine nouns in the genitive case do not lenite their attributive adjectives.

An initial slender gh (as in gheal ) sounds like an English Y (i.e. IPA /j/). (I’m doing this course without the audio, so perhaps someone else will address your specific question on her pronunciation.)

EDIT: The pronunciation of gheal in the new recording is correct.

October 21, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nathan85554

Its the bright shirt

February 8, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TreasaWilson

"a" bright shirt, rather than "the" bright shirt. That would be "an léine gheal" .

February 8, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyAnn11

Why isn't it a light shirt? Thinking of wearing thinner clothing in the summer.

March 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

Because the Irish for "light" meaning "not heavy" is éadrom. Geal means "bright"

"it's light as a feather" - tá sé chomh héadrom le cleite
"a lightweight fabric" - éadach éadrom
"the moon was bright enough to read by" - bhí an ghealach sách geal go bhféadfá léamh

March 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

The FGB shows éadrom being used as an adverb with colors,

éadrom glas, éadrom gorm, light green, light blue.

but it isn’t used by itself as an adjective to mean “pale-colored”.

April 26, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/I2cGAc67

I have a comment on the pronunciation of "gheal." Sounds a lot like English "yowl" rather than having a short "a" (like in apple) vowel sound. Given what I think I know about Irish pronunciation, I was expecting that "ea" would sound more like that short "a" in apple.

December 5, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1222

I'm surprised that you hear a sound like "yowl" in this exercise - it definitely sounds more like the "a" in apple to me.

The unrelated word geall does rhyme with "yowl" in Munster (especially in the phrase mar gheall).

http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/geal
http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/geall

December 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/I2cGAc67

Thanks for your reply. Good to get validation that "ea" in "gheal" is pronounced like English short a in apple, regardless of artifact of recording and how it came across to me (I did listen several times). Also appreciate the info about "gheall" and how it is pronounced in Munster. Cheers!

December 14, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MegzMcMegz

Would "A bright woman" be bhean gheal?

October 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1222

In English, "bright" usually means "intelligent" when applied to a person. geal does not have that meaning.

bean ghéarchúiseach is one alternative.

October 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElinorConn1

Why is it gheal and not geal?

December 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1222

léine is a feminine noun, and attributive adjectives agree with the noun, so adjectives of feminine nouns are lenited.

December 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Huffdogg

does "bright" have a color connotation in Irish that I'm not picking up on? As an American, I cannot imagine ever describing a garment this way unless it had lights attached to it.

January 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/megsterftw

Fellow American, a "bright shirt" would indicate to me that it's garishly flashy colored, like neon.

September 15, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tetris102

Not Irish, but in Australia if we say something is 'bright', we usually mean the colour is not a pastel colour. We would also say a colour could be 'dull' if it isn't bright.

E.g. The highlighter had a bright green colour. But her grey shirt was very dull.

March 11, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/conor.raff

I´m surprised to hear that about American English! In Irish and UK English bright means up the colour spectrum towards white. So pink, yellow, orange, light blue, cream are all "bright" colours.

The opposite is a "dark" colour: obviously black, brown, dark grey, dark blue, dark red, dark green, purple etc.

March 14, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

The contrast in US English would be “bright” vs. “dull” or “muted”, and “light” vs. “dark”. If you’re familiar with the Munsell color system, which categorizes colors into three dimensions — hue, chroma, and value — a color with a high chroma (regardless of its value) would be called “bright” here, and a color with a high value (regardless of its chroma) would be called “light” here.

April 29, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mcdermottc1

Agreed with Huffdogg. We would say a pastel shirt, light shirt, or even more likely, a "light-colored" shirt, to distinguish from one of light weight. We'd rarely use "bright" as a color description on its own, unless the shirt were virtually neon, and then it would be emphasized to indicate "loudness" of color, as is "That is certainly a BRIGHT shirt" of a fuschia, lime, and electric blue print, which would certainly not be considered pastel!

March 28, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/savandwich

In UK English, it's quite normal to comment "Ooh, that's a bright outfit she's wearing" if someone was wearing say, a lot of orange or highlighter-pink. Us English people are sort of... soft, if that makes sense. Likewise, if someone was wearing all black, we might say "That's a dark outfit he's wearing."

May 26, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Huffdogg

We use "bright" in combination with another color, but never on its own.

March 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/I2cGAc67

As a native English speaker and American, I have to disagree with you. I am not disputing your own experience - if you have never heard people refer to bright colored objects, then you haven't - but I sure have.

December 5, 2017
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