" col ceathrar nua agam."

Translation:I have a new first cousin.

August 31, 2014

32 Comments

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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flint72

Can someone remind me why it's "col ceathrar/ seisir/ ochtair = first/ second/ third cousin" please? It's a slightly odd system, but I recall there was a sensible reason.

August 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnLonDubhBeag

Col ceathrair = Prohibition of four = cousin

Col means prohibition, referring to the prohibition of marrying people closely related to you.

The number (in the case above, four) refers to the amount of people between you and the individual, where you pass up and down along generation and sideways between siblings:

You => Parent => Parent's sibling => Your Cousin

Second cousins are "Col seisir" = "Prohibition of six":

You => Parent => Grandparent => Grandparent's sibling => Their child => Your second cousin.

September 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Em484950

Thank you very much for explaining that. I was wondering.

May 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mjkuecker1965

It seemed to me when I was hovering over the translation that it was implying I have four new cousins, the hover translation doesn't seem to explain the prohibition of four (as in not to marry in the third degree of kindred) it didn't seem to imply a first cousin at all, in fact when it marked me wrong, the translation just said "I have a new cousin" not "a new first cousin."

June 27, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gp6am

Agreed! The introductory hint ("cousin") is confusing rather than helpful. Can't imagine how Duo will explain second cousins once or twice removed (and I've got a whole passle of those on both side of the family tree).

September 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlegRussia

Second cousin once removed - col seachtair

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mare57553

I thought the same

January 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StanStanDaMan

That makes sense in a sideways sort of way.

April 10, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryLea11

Okay. To confuse matters more, and my brain is officially melting, how would I say I have four cousins?

December 8, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kydos37

Tá (<sub>ceithre</sub>) ceathrar col ceathrar agam.

Not 100% on the spelling of 'ceathrar' for plural.

March 3, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatHargan

Would it not be 'Tá ceathrar col ceathracha agam'?

March 3, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kydos37

Sorry, you are right. 'ceathrar' for people, 'ceithre' for things.

As for 'col ceathracha' I'm not sure. The lesson on numbers doesn't specify if you the singular form of a noun following human conjunctive numbers like you do for general conjunctive numbers barring some special cases.

They do give 'cúigear fear' as an example so it appears you do use the singular form, but they also give 'beirt bhuachaillí' so I don't know does 'beirt' mean you use the plural form as well as causing lenition on the following noun.

Wouldn't mind some clarification on this.

March 4, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatHargan

If you look up 'triúr' in the dictionary, it gives: '1. (Of persons) Three. ~ fear, ban, múinteoirí, three men, women, teachers.' There are similar examples under 'ceathrar', 'cúigear' etc. So it looks as though the genitive plural is used. But I too would appreciate any clarification of the matter.

March 4, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

According to the 2012 Caighdeán, when using ceathrar as “four (people)”, “cousins” would need to be put into the genitive plural, so it would be either ceathrar col ceathrar (for col ceathrair as “cousin”) ceathrar col ceathracha (for col ceathar as “cousin”). When using ceithre as “four” (which is an option even with people), “cousins” would be in a lenited nominative singular, so it would be either ceithre chol ceathrair or ceithre chol ceathar.

May 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlegRussia

Both "fear" and "buachaillí" are genetive plural.

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eggplant42

Oh jeez, one of The most important concepts of being Irish (having a metric !@$&ton of cousins) and its incredibly complicated!

September 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatHargan

In Ó Dónaill the forms 'col ceathrair' and 'col ceathar' are given, but not 'col ceathrar', as in the example given here. Is this a spelling mistake? http://breis.focloir.ie/en/fgb/col

January 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sleepypie

no ceathrar is correct

May 12, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatHargan

Can you give a dictionary reference?

May 13, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatHargan

Thanks, but I'm still none the wiser, because that page doesn't seem to recognise either of the forms listed in Ó Dónaill, although it provides a link to it! :-/

May 13, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sleepypie

From what I can figure out both are correct it is just a variation in spelling. Apparently col ceathrar is the connacht spelling for col ceathar, however being brought up with Munster Irish I would have always used ceathrar and only finding this mentioned on wikipedia I'm not too sure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connacht_Irish#cite_ref-1
col ceathrair is the genitive singular

May 13, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Col ceathrar is the plural of col ceathrair (ceathrar is both the nominative singular form and the genitive plural form), and col ceathracha is the plural of col ceathar. (The prohibition remains singular, no matter how many people are involved.)

May 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alercah

According to the 2017 Caighdéan (p. 154), "ceathrar" should be put into the genitive here, giving "ceathrair". So this is indeed an error in the lesson when compared to the current standard.

August 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatHargan

'Col ceathrair' is the form that makes the most sense to me, with 'ceathrar' in the genitive, following the explanation given above by AnLondDubhBeag and the fact that the genitive is also used for the more distant degrees of kinship (cúigir, seisir, seachtair, ochtair).

However, the plural - col ceathracha - is a bit surprising. I would have expected something more like 'colanna ceathrair', similar to English plurals such as sons-in-law or courts martial, but evidently the phrase is treated as a single unit. Perhaps this was a later formation.

May 14, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/deserttitan

Is she saying [cah hurr]?

April 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sleepypie

it's more like cah hurr er

May 12, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/becky3086

Wow, so I can never say "I have four new cousins". Nope, just isn't going to happen.

June 23, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RommelRive2

Yes you can, read the above comments

July 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qualyn2

Is there some other system for saying, for example, 1st cousin twice removed?

August 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TangentExpress

Okay, so there are first cousins, second cousins, etc., but how do I say "cousin" without specifying their exact degree of relation to me? Is there a general word for cousin?

September 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1215

No. The "default" version of "cousin", just as in English, is first cousin, or col ceathrair, but the Irish is more specific. You could stick with "relative"/"relation" (gaol) if you don't want that specificity.

September 25, 2019
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