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  5. "An bhean dhearg."

"An bhean dhearg."

Translation:The red woman.

September 1, 2014

55 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mwasson

Someone's been watching a lot of Game of Thrones? ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UaSirideain

"The Red Woman" is also a character in Irish myth. Kind of an obscure character, but still there. :p


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/feyMorgaina

Interesting. I studied a bit of Celtic mythology before. What would be the more common myths associated with "The Red Woman"? I'd like to look this up.

Edit:

Oh! There's a chapter called "The Red Woman" in Lady Gregory's "Gods and Fighting Men" (http://www.freefictionbooks.org/books/g/5384-gods-and-fighting-men-by-lady-gregory?start=154). I suppose this might be what you meant...?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FernandoNa192315

Thanks for sharing this!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/haja024

For Irish is dark and full of lenition


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeredithNa

I think she's sunburnt.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Howard

Googling suggests it is also an idiom for "the gift of the gab": Tá an bhean dhearg go maith aige. = 'He has the gift of the gab'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xianyu118

Can it also be taken to mean "The Scarlet Woman?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lancet

Scarlet is scarlóideach, so that would be an bhean scarlóideach.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EstherQuesada13

How about "bean rua" for red? I'm not sure if it's the right word...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1456

bean rua would be used for a red-haired woman, not for a woman dressed in red.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marcello.d7

She's red because she was in the fridge


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SoBroithe

Or in the sun too long. If she is red in the sense of red-haired she is "rua".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SenDiver

'Lady' should also be accepted here as English for 'bhean.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/caoilfhionndubh

I thought the Irish Gaelic word for red was 'rua', not dearg. And also, could somebody please explain why it is bhean, and not bean, and also, dhearg, not dearg? Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mwasson

"rua" is more like red hair, red fur, or I'd imagine also freckled skin--natural reds that appear on people/animals, I think? "dearg" is red in the larger concept, including e.g. red clothes.

It's "bhean" instead of "bean" because feminine nouns are lenited (if possible) after the article.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/caoilfhionndubh

Thank you so much! I do understand lenition now, but your comment was helpful. As for the rua/dearg concept, I see how that works, too. I suppose that is why foxes are occasionally called madra rua, because the fox has red fur. Thanks again!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlegRussia

And what about dhearg? Why is lenition there?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mwasson

Adjectives of definite feminine nouns are lenited, too. Generally, when adjectives/genitives get lenited is pretty complex (and I don't have a complete handle on them), so I'm just going to refer you to Gramadach na Gaeilge:

http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/gram.htm?lenition.htm


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christel922542

What do you mean by 'if possible'? There are so many rules...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1456

Not all letters can be lenited. A feminine noun that starts with l, for example, cannot be lenited after an.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JasonMurray29

Rua is red that is actually orange (usually hair or fur), dearg is red that is like blood or stop signs


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BlackSpiral

Just trying to understand this (I am Russian) in cross-translation through English to my native language... *sorry for my broken English

We have two words that translate similary in English. It is "рыжий" and "красный". Both will be "red" in English, but the first term is more like natural orange of hair, fur, sometimes to the color of sky or falling leaves, but not to the same-colored objects like, for example, oranges (I mean, fruits) or artifical paints (mean, suspensions, on the wall or smth like that) - in this case it will be "оранжевый" (sounds similary to "orange").

So, if i understood correctly here, in Irish "rua" means same to the russian word "рыжий" but not the "orange" (even if it is same-colored objects)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1456

rua is used for reddish-brown, russet, rust, copper colours, so gruaig rua is "red hair", madra rua is one of the Irish names for a fox and feamainn rua is "brown seaweed" and bonn rua is a copper coin, capall rua is a chestnut horse (deargrua and donnrua also crop up).

I don't fully understand the distinction between the two Russian words that you describe, but I'm not sure that rua would be an exact match for either of them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BlackSpiral

Oh, thank you! I think, I understand now. Yes, the colours to "rua" you describing is our "рыжий", now it is clear to me. Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Walrus273

Can anyone tell me which Irish myth it's in? :P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cybo_Vampire

is saying "the red woman" racist


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaggiePye

That would all depend on context. There's a figure in Irish mythology called the "Red Woman"; you might also be talking about some sort of art or decoration that doesn't use realistic colors (I have a skirt that has a print of little absurdly-colored people on it, so I might say something like, "Darn, I got a stain on my skirt, right there, next to the red woman."); there are some other options that wouldn't be remotely racist.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kaet
  • 336

In what context?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/swordsman102002

Wow! both "bean" and "dearg" are lenited.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/occitalan

Tá an geimhreadh ag teacht.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JasonMurray29

Ha! Love those books.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tomasdeb

Why does DNTLS rule not apply here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1456

DNTLS doesn't apply to attributive adjectves.

From GnaG:
Attributive adjectives are lenited despite d, t, s


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andregavo

in wich case am I allowed to say "rua" instead of "dearg" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ButtnutOGogs

rua is a different type of red, its the color of foxes or autumn leaves, lots of other comments say this, im just parroting, just fyi


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jb11131999

now if you just say "the woman" it would be "an bean" right? now here why is the woman lenition-ed with the h? I understand the color should be but why woman?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mwasson

No, it would still be "an bhean." That's because "bean" is feminine, and when feminine nouns take the definite article they're lenited if possible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jb11131999

So is 'an bean' ever a thing possible?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mwasson

Nope. This page describes all possible uses of the article:

http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/gram.htm

It's tempting to say that it would be possible in the genitive, but the feminine singular genitive takes "na", not "an", so "of the woman" is "na bean."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

“Of the woman” is na mná, since the genitive singular of bean is mná. (Since na mná can also be “the women”, grammatical context is key.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CathyMagde

When I translated the pink woman to the pink lady in the previous sentence, it accepted the answer. But here, I wrote the red lady instead of the red woman, and it refused it... Is there a reason lady is fine with pink, but not with red?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mwasson

No, I think it just means that somebody at some point thought you should be able to say "pink lady" for the other one and complained that their answer wasn't accepted. I don't know to what extent "bean" overlaps with all the connotations of English "lady," but later in the tree you'll learn "bantiarna," which has the high class/aristocratic meanings of "lady." Personally I'd stick to using "woman" for "bean" to avoid confusion.

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