Interestingly, it gave me credit for a correct answer (though admonished me for missing the accents) when I wrote "net leggo net scrivo".
the funny thing is that that would be how they say it in french (et makes an "ay" sound)
I put Ned, Ned, I still got credit but was corrected for Ne instead. I heard it in the standard speed and typed it out and then I was like let me check again, I listened at normal speed again and hear Ne, but the slower pronunciation was Ned.
why does this construction not have the word "non" when all of the others have non as well as the two nes?
If the negative word (né) comes before the verb (as in this case), it replaces the "non." If it comes after (for example, "Non scrivo né lettere né cartoline"), you need the "non" before the verb to mark the sentence as negative.
Think of "nè" as the equivalent of "neither" and "non" as simply "not" and maybe it will make more sense. "I neither read nor write." Meanwhile, "Non leggo e non scrivo." (at least I think that's correct, any constructive criticism is welcome)
It's common in many languages to use a construction such as "né X né Y" to mean "neither X nor Y", which is slightly different from "not X not Y".
Think of né as the "nor" in english. e.g: "I do not drink beer nor wine". :)
I'm not sure, but I think the 'non' needs (to be placed after) an object and the object (io) is missing here.
What you said is true but you dont need to say "io, tu, lei, etc" all the time, only when the person youre talking to doesnt understand you is when you would wanna place them in the sentence.
Esempio: io non leggo e non scrivo. Vs non leggo e non scrivo.
Both are the same but just by the conjugated verbs "Leggere e Scrivere" being in first person then they can already assume that youre talking about yourself. In english its necessary to put "I you she he" but not in romance languages (Spanish, Italian, Romanian, etc). Hope that helped some :). Ciao bella.
@ZeldaEunice I know that. I was responding to AnneArdon to clear up the "io non" that she was talking about.
Only if you put a negative elsewhere in the sentence, e.g. I don't read or write. You can put double negatives in Italian but not in English so in a sentence like 'Non voglio né tè né caffè' there are two ways to translate it: 1) I want neither tea nor coffee 2) I don't want either tea or coffee. (P.S. Italian speakers, please correct the sentence above if it's wrong!)
I put "I don't read or write" and it was marked wrong. I know the more formally correct answer would be to use neither/nor, but modern English uses neither/nor as well as either/or so it should be right.
Obviously your sentence is right and means pretty much the same thing, but I guess it's not an exact translation and since they're trying to teach you either/or and neither/nor here, I guess that's why they really want you to translate it that way. It's irritating but i can see their point!
I think that Italian can also put it in more than one way. They did accept "I do not read nor write." I think the "nor" is a core ingredient to this particular sentence lesson. "I do not read or write." would be "Io non leggo o scrivo."
Because it's a double connotation, "né/né" said twice means "neither/nor" but if you said "né/o" that would be "nor/or" [I.e: "I am nor a cat or a dog" is said incorrectly in English as it would be said "I am neither a cat nor a dog"--same applies to Italian but using "né/né" .]
you are right and you should report it... after a while they notice. use the report button
...except for that the system tells me it's wrong if I say " I don't read or write"... (I believe in today's English that would be acceptable, although grammatically probably not proper)
Interesting that because we are learning in duolingo, we will never need to utter this sentence for real! Thank you duoLingo!
Do not use the word "never." Perhaps on your visit to Italy, you join a play. It is about an illiterate man becoming a teacher. If that does happen, you better hope you were paying attention! Also, you could correct someone who did not say this sentence right! Think positive, my friend! Prego!
No, no. You missed my meaning completely (I don't mind some of the more abstract sentences in duo ... they make it fun and I still learn the words). I meant to impart a compliment to duoLingo because now I can speak and read Italian! Let's celebrate! :-)
I know right. I was just lying by reading and writing that i could do neither.
I love "né ... né ..." because its usage is absolutely same in Turkish, my native language.
"Né leggo né scrivo" -> "Ne okurum, ne yazarım" ;)
Although the general meaning is the same I think here they are really trying to teach us the 'neither...nor' construction.
It's a peculiarity of English (US) that we say either 'I don't read or write' or 'I neither read nor write'. Nobody says 'I don't read nor write' colloquially. I never thought about that before, but the informality of the contraction carries over to the preposition.
I heard "ned". But having a modest background in linguistics, I wonder if the [t] or [d] that English speakers might think we hear is a phenomenon that also occurs in English. That is, when we say "cat" or "bat" we are not actually saying the [t], but we hear the [t] (a final 'stop': an 'unreleased' stop I think, you can look it up if interested)-- our brains fill the [t] in because we know the sound is "supposed" to be there. Anyway, the words we have in English that start with NEH are ned and net -- so I guess we need to be wary of our brains filling in sounds for us in other languages.
I neither read nor write - the do is an extra verb that doesn't make sense there
Unless someone just said you couldn't and you needed to emphasize that YES, I can. Normally, you would not add the "do".
I do now understand when ne means neither...nor or when it means either...or. Can anyone help me? Thank you! Raquel
Né is always negative. If you were to say: "I neither read nor write." Or "I do not either read or write." , they are both proper sentances. They mean the same thing even though one says "either...or" and the other says "neither...nor". Né would never mean "I either read or write." It must always be negative. Hope this helps:-D.
the english translation is incorrect english grammar. One does not say "I do not read nor write." One either says II neither read nor write" or one says "I do not read or write."
in texas thats exactly how we say it, but our sentences are broken in sections when we speak so we actually say "i do not read,....NOR write"
While I do not mean to be disrespectful to Texas, I would suggest that the way the English language is spoken in the vernacular there is hardly a litmus test for correct English grammar.
thats the point though, no one actually speaks english anymore, it changes constantly even if most of those changes are temporary, some stick, you cant say incorrect english, as long as its understood its english.
And the reason that you say that in Texas - or in any other native English-speaking land - is that "...nor write" is actually an incomplete clause which has within it "do I", so that it looks like this when complete: "I do not read, nor do I write." That is not a double negative, because each clause has a single negative in it.
I'm not a native English speaker so I'm not sure, but isn't neither-nor a redundancy? in French and Spanish we consider those double negatives as the correct form, but I thought it was wrong in English. Shouldn't it be "I can neither read or write" or "I can't read or write"? Is "nor" the preferred term?
This is special because neither and nor only negate one item each, if there are more items, you will have to continue to provide more "nor" for each more item. This form is especially used for listed items. I like neither fish, nor chicken, nor vegetables, nor meat. I like either ice cream or cookies or cake. I neither swim nor ride bicycles nor run, so I guess I won't be doing the triathlon.
Also, if you use "not" you will negate the entire sentence and then you could use "either ...or" with your list and the items would still be negated. I do not like either fish or clams. "either..or..." can be used with "not".
"neither...nor..." is considered a single negative for lists.
To top it off, "Neither" can be used alone, in a second negative statement answering some else's. "One person says "I don't like that." Other person says "Neither do I." showing that they have a similar dislike.
"Nor" can be used to start a second negative clause. "I don't like the way he did that, nor do I appreciate the way he pretended that it didn't matter." In retrospect, the person could say "I neither liked the way he did that nor the way he pretended that it didn't matter.", but when speaking on the fly he may have come up with the first thought and then added the second and it is perfectly correct to do so. http://robin.hubpages.com/hub/Grammar_Mishaps__Neither-Nor_and_Either-Or
Got it! Thanks. It is similar in Spanish, where you have the form "No leo ni escribo" Where "no" only negates the first term, and then "ni" is a contraction of "y no" (and I don't/and it is not"/etc.) so the literal translation could look like I don't read and I don't write and I don't... Anyway, now it makes sense.
I am a native English speaker with a pretty fair knowledge of English grammar. The one place where a double negative is allowed is in the neither_nor combination. The rule is neither_ nor_ or you may say either_ or_. You never say neither_ or (or for that matter either_nor).
no in this case nor is prefered, as for the double negative rule there are several exceptions but this is the most commonly used, unfortunately there is not one single rule in english that is always true. each rule is mainly dependent on when it was introduced and the languages it was borrowed from. in this case nor is prefered because of the way it sounds (Neither Nor, Either Or)
Why do both the (né)s have the same accent in the printed answer, but in both the fast and the slow playback the first one sounds longer than the second? It's sounds like the first one has a grave accent and the second one does not ( if I understand the terminology correctly)
It sounds like she is saying "ned" or "net". I must have listened to bothe fast and slow pronunciation a dozen times. It drove me nuts!
Could someone explain to me the correct usage of the accents on the letter "e"? I always get them wrong!
Accent acute: né, sé (da sé = hiself): open pronunciation Accent serious (grave in italian): è (verbo essere), caffè, bebè or farò, potrò. Closed pronunciation. Only on the last vocal (not like French !). The difference is very small (many italians do not know this, so don't worry !). If the final vocal is a, i, u, only accent serious (grave) : libertà
Why are some accents è and others é (the different directions of the accent mark)?
I almost typed "ni" due to my bilingual status and I had to listen to it 3 times to get it right. Honestly, I am getting so many Italian words mixed with Spanish ones.
What it said vs what I heard:
- Né leggo né scrivo
- Nelle gonne scrivo
- Ne......lle......go......... nne......scrivo
The sounds are similar, but the stress is different:
Né leggo né scrivo: ne-LEG-go-ne-SCRI-vo
Nelle gonne scrivo: NEL-le-GON-ne-SCRI-vo.
Hi Ashp. Unfortunately the metal voice clearly says "net" which is very confusing for many. It has been reported many times but years later it stays as Net. I won't add to the né né discussion as this has been covered. Ciao.
Unfortunately, the course contributors are not able to change the audio for the sentences. At best, if it's particularly bad, we can disable the audio-only exercises (where you have to transcribe the sentence), but you will still hear it for the others. It looks like in this case it's only affecting the slow version, at least.
I wrote "Neither do I read nor do I write" but it did not accept. Don't know why
"I neither read nor write" is the correct answer. There is no "do" in Duo's answer. Its a tough one but we get there in the end. Best wishes.
Because that is not what it means. The answer is "I neither read nor write".
Can someone explain why there is "non" anymore here in this sentence . As in the previous one ie. " it is neither tea nor black coffee " and the right Italian translation was "non è né tè né Caffè Nero". Why in these sentences rule is different. ? PLEASE someone explain.
Yes, I thought it was Ned as well but decided to put ne. E sometimes sounds like ed as well
If you said "Io non leggo o scrivo.", someone would understand it, but they wanted you to translate it more directly.
In the exercises it's always better to be more literal. Duo wants us to learn certain things. Of course often there are other ways of writing but here write what you see.
I disagree. Sometimes when I am more literal I get marked wrong because the Italian phrase is somewhat idiomatic. Often is seems what they are looking for (and I think should be looking for) is the "best" English phrase that conveys the same meaning as the Italian one.
Yes, I agree that they should require, and most often accept, the the best English translation. But I've seen lots of situations where the literal was wanted, even though it sounded strange to native speaker's ears.
Keep in mind also that when you use "and" instead of "or" or "nor" that you change the concept. Now with "and" you are saying that you do not do both, but it has now become possible that maybe you are able to do one of those but not both. Whereas, with "nor" or "not....or" you are not able to do either one or to put it another way, you can do neither.
It's because the verb is "leggo" (io leggo) which means "I read". In Italian you don't need to put the "io" ('I"} because you know from the "o" on "leggo" that it means "io".
Have you seen these sights for newcomers. http://duolingo.wikia.com/wiki/Frequently_asked_questions http://www.duolingo.com/comment/1352379
If you have any questions come to the comments for help.
I answered: "Neither I read nor write" - why is that incorrect? I thought it was more natural
'neither' sticks very tightly to the thing it alters, so 'neither I' would alter I .. as if in this example .. 'Neither I nor you write.' So for 'neither' to modify the verb 'read' in this sentence it needs to precede the verb immediately.
You can also say "I neither read nor write.", but "I can neither read nor write." would be another sentence in Italian: "Io né posso leggere né scrivere."
I answered "Neither do I read nor write" and it wasn't accepted. Is this not correct? And if not, why?
The english translation is incorrent. It should only be nor if there was a neither before it
I agree is sounds like she is saying "net" instead of "ne". But more importantly, I'm glad someone is finally taking a stance against reading and writing.
My answer was "neither I read, nor I write" and it was marked as wrong. I'm not sure I understand why :(
Whoever is speaking is putting another sound before the "n" in "ne and also after the "e", so the word she is saying does not sound like "né" at all!!!
after a negative verb " don't " it must be "nor" . " or" may only be used after a positive verb.
I said I dont read nor write and got it wrong , corrected to or ? I think they need to check that !
Am I doing something wrong. I have had " ne leggo ne scrivo" " hai figli" "viene dal ristorante" and one or two more for the last month or more is there a way to move on?
Okay, again you guys are not letting me leave error comments, so I have to leave them here. I said the second "ne," and your audio software did not pick it up. By the way the changes that have taken place in the last few days have all been to the negative in my opinion.
I translated this as "I can't read or write." And though I understand it is not a literal translation, I expect that it accurately conveys the meaning of the Italian sentence. But I am open to be corrected. :)
I am typing the correct answer but is is marking it as wrong. I can't move forward.
"I don't read or write " should not be accepted as it should be "I don't read NOR write"
Né leggo né scrivo - here né.... né mean "neither... nor". You may be thinking of something like "Non ne abbiamo" = we don't have any of them. Incidentally the confusing "net" sound instead of "ne" has been reported many many times so hopefully it will be fixed one day. Enjoy your learning...
If "né" is before the verb (as in this sentence), you don't need "non." If "né" is only after the verb, you need "non" to mark the sentence as negative. It works this way for all the negative expressions (nessuno, mai, etc.).
As for the sound, we are aware that for "né" it is slightly off, but unfortunately the only thing we can do is disable the sound for the sentence, which only means that you will not have to transcribe it. The voices come from a third-party site, so course contributors can't do much about them. We can't fix the sound. For this sentence, though, it sounds like it is only affecting the slow recording, at least.
Why it is sounds in the fast one like 'ne' but in the slow one like 'net'?
My English was correct! It's quite annoying when my good English is not acceptable!
What did you put? Here in the discussion, we have not seen what you have put so now we cannot help you. Scroll up and down through all the discussions to see if you put one of the same things that someone else did and you may find an explanation. A perfectly good English sentence, may or may not be an exact translation of the Italian sentence shown here.
The translation for ne included either - or. I used those and marked incorrect. Why is that?
I think that if it says "io non mangio né pollo né frutta" it would mean " I do not eat either chicken or fruit." Né is always negative, but depending on how it is worded, it could mean either or.
It's always negative, it's just that, as ZeldaEunice points out, in English we can either do this with neither/nor, or with don't + either/or. You can use a double negative in Italian but not in English.
To clear up a bit ofconfusion on the English here. Double negatives are always WRONG. Although many people use "neither....nor" it is technically incorrect. The ONLY correct way is to say "neither....or". For example, the weather is neither hot or dry. The "neither" already explains that the options are negative. If you add "nor" you are actually saying that it is NOT NOT something, in otherwords that it IS something. That noise is my English teacher laughing his head off from the grave.
Neither Cambridge Dictionaries nor Dictionary.com agree with you.
I believe what you're referring to (and your English teacher was probably trying to warn you of) was that using "not" BEFORE the neither/nor is, as you say, a double negative.
EITHER must ALWAYS be paired with OR. NEITHER must ALWAYS be paired with NOR. You should NOT use "NOT" before "NEITHER/NOR"
Example: He did not mention neither his aunt nor his sister. (Wrong, because it tells us what he did NOT mention - the existence of "not" after "did" means neither / nor becomes incorrect.) He mentioned neither his aunt or his sister. (Wrong, because neither always pairs with nor.) He mentioned neither his aunt nor his sister. (CORRECT - there is no "not" before the paired clause, and neither is paired with nor.)
I think the noise you heard was actually your teacher spinning in his grave, not laughing. ;)
Thank you - yes! If I were to hear someone say neither - /or -, I would chuckle at their quaint (mis)use of the English language.
"I neither read or write" is absolutely correct in ( English) English. In fact the "neither...nor" construction is a double negative and always incorrect. The " nor" implies a contradiction of the "neither". In other words "I can't read but I can write". Having said that, it is a common error.
That is wrong.
In English English, American English, or any other kind of English. See my post below. You are confusing it with people who use "Not" before "Neither/nor".
"I have not neither money nor time" - is wrong, because as you say, it is a double negative - BECAUSE THE WORD "NOT" APPEARS BEFORE NEITHER/NOR. This also goes for "I haven't neither..." - the contracted form of not is also a double-negative. "I have neither money nor time" is correct, and is not a double negative.
The rule is simple: Neither ALWAYS goes with Nor. It is not a double-negative. Either ALWAYS goes with Or. Using "Not" before Neither/Nor is a double negative and is incorrect.
I have cited my references below. If you have a reference, please provide it.
anybody who knows, really knows, English won't dare to fault my "neither read nor write". this is one of the few customs in English when one can omit mentioning the subject "I". you understand?
Challenge accepted ;)
I don't think I understand what you mean. Clarify for me, if you wouldn't mind: Do you mean to say that "Neither read nor write" stands alone on its own without explicitly stating the subject? When I read that sentence, it sounds like a command, which is one of the few instances where you can leave out the pronoun. It's the difference between saying "I take out the trash" and "Take out the trash": one is a statement, the other is a command. Otherwise, you need to include the pronoun "I" so you know who your subject is.
"Nè leggo nè scrivo" stands alone fine on its own because in Italian, the subject "io" is understood by the conjugated verbs. Our grammatical structure in English doesn't allow for this. So unless I've totally misunderstood what you're asking, you cannot leave out the subject pronoun "I" in your sentence.
Yes, that makes a sentence, but if it is left out in English the subject is changed to the command form of "you" which can be left out of the sentence and still be understood. "I" can never be left out of a sentence in English.
Yes, as an answer to a specific question. E.g., in an exchange, following an inquiry "have you read or written, or likely to read or write, such a similar expression?", the interlocutor can simply say "no, neither read nor write"