"De leraren en directeuren lopen studenten te volgen."

Translation:The teachers and principals are following the students.

4 years ago

20 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/jeanine22
jeanine22
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This is not really a proper Dutch sentence. You should say 'De leraren en directeuren volgen de studenten'..

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/xMerrie
xMerrie
Mod
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Actually, it is. Maybe it's a dialect thing. ;D

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Susande
Susande
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Indeed, [iemand] loopt te [iets] is normal in Dutch, e.g. Jan loopt te zeuren, zij loopt op te ruimen. Nothing wrong with that. Also the meaning of these sentences is a bit different than ones without the loopt te construction, it emphasises it's an ongoing thing.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jeanine22
jeanine22
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Sorry, I'm not convinced. As native speaker I agree that this sentence is grammatically correct, but in this example 'lopen te volgen' sounds just very ugly to me. Besides, it sounds like the students are being pursuied rather than their results are being followed.

If you want to emphisize that it's ongoing, you could say "De leraren en directeuren zijn bezig de studenten te volgen" or "zijn de studenten aan het volgen" (I prefer the latter). It's not a rule though, and in your exmple of "Jan loopt te zeuren", "lopen te zeuren" sounds indeed much better than 'Jan is bezig met zeuren". "Jan is aan het zeuren", however, also sounds perfect.

Maybe it is indeed a dialect thing. But then I think Duolingo should not teach it. Perhaps you like to read the following, it's about the use of 'zitten te' instead of 'lopen te'. http://vorige.nrc.nl/rubrieken/woordhoek/article1650477.ece/Zitten_te_lopen_reacties.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Susande
Susande
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Well, whether it is officially regarded as correct or not is besides the point I think. The fact is that it is being used and it is not some local thing. In your link I see references from Drenthe, Twente, Brabant and Vlaanderen. Next to that, your link mentions: "Wel is het duidelijk dat deze werkwoorden een duratief aspect krijgen en eigenlijk op weg zijn naar duratieve hulpwerkwoorden"

So if you want language learners to understand Dutch, you should teach them about this construction and when it is used. AFAIK Duolingo is made to help people learn a language so they can communicate, not to learn them the form of Algemeen Nederlands that is regarded by most as fully correct.

True there are other ways to emphasise something is ongoing. I merely mentioned this, since in your first post you suggest to change it to a sentence without the emphasis that it is ongoing (De leraren en directeuren volgen de studenten), thus with a slightly different meaning.

Onzetaal has an explanation of the construction here.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Susande
Susande
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@percusse:

The lopen te [infinitve] is used to indicate something in an ongoing thing and has been happening for some time:

  • ze verkoopt boeken = she sells books/she is selling books (can be used to e.g. indicate a hobby or profession)
  • ze loopt boeken te verkopen = she is selling books (emphasizes she is selling now and has been doing this for some time)
1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/grey236
grey236
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Do separable verbs remove their prepostions even if it's in the infinitive? So opruimen becomes op..ruimen like in your sentence 'zij loopt op te ruimen.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Susande
Susande
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The preposition part is part of the verb and when it's an infinitive, it's one word, e.g.:

  • wij zijn goed in opruimen = we are good at cleaning (infinitive)
  • wij ruimen op = we clean/we are cleaning (conjugated verb)
  • de problemen zijn zich aan het opstapelen in de VS = the problems are piling up in the US
  • de problemen stapelen zich op = the problems are piling up (zich is in there because it's a reflexive verb)

Removing the preposition in these situations would create a different verb:

  • wij zijn goed in ruimen = we are good at removing/killing (used e.g. when all animals in a farm need to be killed due to an outbreak of disease)
  • the US sentence wouldn't make sense as stapelen only means literally/phisically putting things in piles, e.g. het kind stapelt de blokken = the child stacks the blocks
1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/grey236
grey236
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So when do verbs remove their preposition as an infinitive? Because I would've thought the sentence would be: Zij loopt te opruimen

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Susande
Susande
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@grey236: Maybe I just misunderstand you, but the preposition part is not removed, it is separated in certain cases and then it gets a different position in the sentence, it's explained well here: http://www.dutchgrammar.com/en/?n=Verbs.co04 (you can also have a look at the "next pages" with more explanation on separable verbs).

BTW your sentence should be: Zij loopt op te ruimen.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Marisa779658
Marisa779658
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And the translation doesn't make any sense.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Larsatron

Really struggling with the use of "lopen" in this sentence. Would someone mind breaking it down for me and perhaps showing some other examples of similar uses? Thanks!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/guzktgui
guzktgui
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why not: "the teachers and directors walk following the students"?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AceySmith

Where is the article here for students? The translation has "the students,"... since it isn't specified do we just assume the definite?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OnkelD
OnkelD
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The use of lopen with "te volgen" is what is throwing me off. Is this another of those separable verb things? It just seems so much like the teachers and principals are walking, following the students.--- either way the structure just seems so awkward.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/EstelleTweedie
EstelleTweedie
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Are scholars/pupils/schoolchildren always called "studenten" or is there another word to distinguish between scholars and university students?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/HJuliaH
HJuliaH
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Is it wrong to put a "the" before principals?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OnkelD
OnkelD
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This is the most awkward sentence of the course so far... for me. "lopen" seems to have no purpose or at least has no reference in the translation at all. I GET the concept.. it just seems terribly awkward!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RonanSill
RonanSill
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instead of principals I used Headteachers and it was refused. Should it?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johnnyhuis

lopen is walking so they are walking to follow

1 year ago
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