"Please put on your jacket."
Translation:La preghiamo di mettere la giacca.
In these formal situations, I think it's helpful to think of how we might talk with the Queen of England. You would never say "Put on your jacket!" but rather something like "We ask that Your Majesty might put on her jacket" (and probably not even that!). We address royalty in the 3rd person. I used to struggle quite a bit speaking formally in Romance languages, but looking at it through "the royal approach" has really helped me understand it.
Is there a difference in formal usage between being polite and being downright servile? I wrote, "Metta la Sua giacca per favore," which was rejected. But then it's not praying to anyone to do anything. It's simply using the formal imperative. Should it work?
With a "Si" in front of your "metta" your response would be perfect and, along with "mettiti la giacca," is used far, faaaaaar more often than the super-uncommon "la preghiamo..." stuff.
Not helpful because there was no context in the phrase indicating royalty .
that's unlikely to be the case. "i'm going out Mom." "please put on your jacket" Even Italian moms might say please, but they mean "Don't leave without wearing a jacket." No queen of anywhere.
PATRICKPIZ1--I'm not sure what your point is. My post does not concern communication between parents and children. What I am saying that in Italian, the use of formal pronouns and their corresponding verbs is very similar to how people speak with royalty in English. Indirectness is a linguistic strategy people use when speaking to those who outrank them socially.
You are perfectly right. The "lei" (feminine, 3rd singular person) comes from a "person" (feminine in Italian) to whom we don't dare to speak directly. So a second imaginary interlocutor is a silent intermediary between me and the person I had to speak with:"Lei (or "Ella", more formal!) mi ascolta (3rd sing. pers.)" (= you are listening to me) = "That person with whom I don't dare to speak directly is listening to me". I would add that this form is used also in the plural: if I am speaking formally with two or more people, I'll say: "Loro (or "lor signori) vogliano (3rd plural person) seguirmi (= you be willing to follow me)
Why not "Metta la giacca per favore".? Also, as in johnt's comment, it is unclear where in the English sentence the "preghiamo" comes from.
Your translation is fine and more literal. Pregare in this cases expresses a kind request.
"Please put on your jacket" seems to be more of a command. Why is the noi form used in the Italian sentence?
How do we know that it is "your jacket" and not "the jacket?"
I would agree with the translation if the English sentence was "We ask you (formal) to put on the jacket." However, the Italian sentence is different in so many ways.
In english you specify possession, in italian you usually don't. It is implied that you should wear your jacket and not someone else's. The "noi" is used when you speak on behalf of a group or something like that. For example a hostess saying "please fasten your seatbelt" direbbe "La preghiamo di allacciare la cintura (di sicurezza)".
I didn't get to this translation during the specific Formal You class but when I did a Strengthen Skills exercise. Under circumstances like that it's impossible to know whether you're supposed to translate it informally or formally! Duolingo ought to accept both alternatives, as is done in loads of other translation exercises here.
i tried with "per favore metti la tua giacca" and it was wrong. have no idea why.
Well, I tried that too, except that I put "ti metti la tua giacca" and it marked me wrong but showed me an answer that was "Per favore mettiti la tua giacca". Mettersi is reflexive... not used to tacking it on to the end of verbs yet.
The exercise is on the formal you, not the familiar forms. I tried : Per favore, metta si la sua giacca - and it was marked incorrect. First because I put "si" after the verb instead of before it -- I didn't think it made a difference. Then I didn't capitalize 'sua' which DL did. I don't believe that in writing the formal 'you' forms need to be capitalized. Maybe someone w/ more experience can comment. Grazie!
I was marked incorrect but the correction I received from Duolingo was Per favore mettiti la tua giacca. I typed Per favore indossa la tua giacca. Should have been either indossare or mettersi. Need explanation for this one.
i think duo wanted the second person singular imperative or infinitive imperitive. 'indossi la (tua) giacca' or 'indossare la (tua) giacca' or the one given above.
the third person singular form is more formal. "would you be so kind as to put on this jacket" said by your manservant since you were riding to the hounds today.
thanks, I forgot that '-are' verbs are different than '-ire' and '-ere' verbs.
I recommend having a look at this page: http://italian.about.com/library/weekly/aa011900a.htm
If I have read it correctly, your suggestion would be correct if it said either "per favore indossi la [Sua] giacca" or "[per favore] indossa la tua giacca"
I said exactly that (per favore indossa la tea giacca and was marked wrong, have reported.
Did you actually get "Oops, that's wrong", or did it just point out your typo ("tea")? In the latter case, DL was doing what it's supposed to.
If DL rejected your entire answer based on a typo, however, the mods will probably correct it once they get to your report.
"Indossa la tua giacca" is informal (and wrong in this context). "Indossi la Sua giacca" is formal. The verb has to be conjugated too.
Indossa is wrong. You could say "per favore indossi. la (sua) giacca" This form, called "condizionale ottativo" (which expresses a wish) is a kind form of imperative). "(Indossa" is either "he wears" and the 2^ sing. person of the imperative of indossare).
Does one say "preghiamo" even if it is one person doing the asking? I mean, is the use of plural a part of the formal speech?
No "one says": the subject (implicit) of "preghiamo" is "We", plural. "We pray You.." = noi preghiamo lei = la preghiamo
Berto: I'm not sure what your point is. The implicit subject of the verb is definitely "we" -- to say "we plural" is redundant since "we" by definition is plural. In English an equivalent that expresses the "we" subject would be: "We ask that you please put on your jacket" -- a bit formal but definitely grammatically correct and appropriate given the right context. As for the "one says..." Yes a single person might resort to a "we" construction if the person wishes to make a group statement, rather than an individual one. Teacher to students: "I want you to keep your books closed during the test!" -- speaking for him- or herself. Vs. "We want you to keep your books closed during the test." -- in citing school policy in which case the teacher is speaking on behalf of all the teachers in the school.
It's not redundant, it was a reply to Zoharg who wrote "one person asks...".: it's "preghiamo" because the understood "noi" = we, is plural...
Nothing about the sentence indicates the need of the speaker being plural. I take your point, but i dont know how we were supposed to know this.
MelissaHoe2: The speakers are definitely plural as indicated by the plural verb form 'preghiamo' = We.
Melissahoe2: the speaker isn't plural (at least not obviously nor necessarily). see my post above. politeness and formality often go hand in hand in Italian and other non-English languages. this is one reason why americans are often seen as rude when we simply follow different language customs. duo can't be your only door into learning Italian. you need to bolster it with other sources. dictionaries, grammars, worksheets, flashcards, etc. many of these can be found for free on the web. here is one that i find helpful: https://www.thoughtco.com/italian-4133069 and another: http://www.uvm.edu/~cmazzoni/3grammatica/grammatica/ and another: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnVc-IW8Q98qFmQcXla5FdQ you can google for others.
'the big green book of Italian verbs' lists hundreds of verbs with their conjugations and variant forms ('-si', '-ne', and '-ci' suffixed verbs) and examples. there are other such books.
Langenscheidt and Collins and others publish grammars (pocket and full size) and dictionaries (ditto and ditto) that are very helpful if not exhaustive.
google translate is helpful but make sure you get a second opinion elsewhere.
flashcards are available like duo's tinycards. but they are easily made by you to meet your needs. verbs that you find difficult, spelling difficulties, which prepositions with which verbs or infinitives or adverbial phrases, or countries, when nouns don't require an article.
PATRICK; You're absolutely incorrect. Of course the speakers are quite obviously plural! Preghiamo is the first person plural "we" form of the verb and it has nothing whatsoever to do w/ politeness, formality, or informality. In this case it doesn't matter whom WE are telling to put on a coat, the speakers -- WE -- are plural.
I agree with you. (write this in italian) Please put on your jacket. Nothing indicates the plural
For some unknown reason I cannot fathom out when to use 'La preghiamo' and when to use 'La prego'. Is it when 'we' are doing the asking as opposed to when 'I' am doing the asking?
Many thanks Berto29441. So could this also be La prego etc as well as La preghiamo? I think I will try it next time it comes up.
Using "we" the phrase takes on an impersonal sense. You can find this writing by entering a club, where, from a certain hour, the dinner jacket is mandatory. The analogous prayer, using "I", would be a direct invitation from a person to a person, who does not comply with the invitation above.
"Per favore indossi la giacca" ("tua" only if he would have put on the jacket of another man...)
You're asking Jo-AnnHan to use the formal (i.e., third person) imperative tense ("indossi"), but she wants to use the familiar form ("indossa"), and the latter is fully acceptable here.
Can you expand on why you think that her answer implies another man's jacket? She never wrote "sua."
If you type her answer into deepl.com/translate, you get exactly DuoLingo's English phrasing.
I kept in mind the initial DL sentence and its translation using the formal "sua", but not only: the "tu" is correctly given to relatives, colleagues of the same age/rank, close friends (full stop), to whom this invitation can appear strange. Jo, logically, wrote "tua", required in E. but not in I., where is useless, unless you want to point out that ... she/he put on another man's jacket. Not always a sentence grammatically correct is also logically correct, far from its context, as it's, according to the (wrong) DL's habit.
I think there is a difference between 'put on the jacket' and 'put on your jacket' so not having any possessive in the answer seems wrong, but I can't flag it from mobile.
While it might seem logical to include a possessive, Italian (like German), usually omits the possessive with parts of the body and articles of clothing. English uses a possessive. It's just a difference between the languages one needs to accept. That said, if the situation required it, Italian would include a possessive, as in "That's my jacket, please put your jacket on." "E' la mia giacca! La preghiamo di mettere la Sua giacca!.
I agree with all that - I am Romanian and there are a lot of similarities to Italian. It just seems that the question could be better framed. Since this is a program which often seems to require a more literal translation to its idiomatic equivalent, putting in a possessive seems like something one would do by nature of previous feedback. At least that's why I put it in.
That's an excellent point. I agree that DL more often than not requires a more literal translation and i guess you could say, omission of the possessive is more idiomatic. Incidentally your English is perfect!
It is correct to omit the indefinite article if already obvious due to context; I have often seen the omission in Italian writing. The lack of the indefinite article when referring to personal clothing is explained as the exception to the rule here:
Because it's the formal "you' -- if you're referring to "La", though in DL's example it's also the first word. Formal 'you' isn't always capitalized.
The "lei capitalized " is only an obsequious (I would say "unctuous"), form used when writing to high offices to show true or false respect for the receiver. NO GRAMMAR prescribes this hilarious capital letter.
What is the difference between la preghiamo and la prego? Is the plural while the is singular?
In formal old English, the royal request might have been: "We pray you to put on your jacket."
The comments, here, refer to "la", but I wonder where they found the equivalent of this "la" in the English sentence (that we have to translate), which means simply, " I ask you (singular or plural) to put on your jacket". Where is the "formal"?
Berto, I'll say the same thing here as I said to chrisa above. The direct object pronouns for "you" in Italian are 'ti' and 'vi" [informal 'you' singular and plural resp] and 'La" [formal/polite 'you' singular]. It's really as simple as that.
But this is not my question. I say that DL cannot add words that don't exist in the starting sentence (which is E., not I.) . As profegringo says, to express in English my simple "la", E. should use a line, but this for the extreme poverty of the E. verbs: if it does not, it can not "imagine" other meanings that it *does not * have
Berto -- I'm sorry but your reasoning makes absolutely no sense at all. Languages don't translate word for word from one to the other. Of course you have to add or delete words when translating to express the meaning of the sentence, not the individual words.
We are truly speaking two different languages. Spare your sense or no sense for yourself and let's stop here.
chrisa715 you are correct. there is nothing formal about this sentence. "la" is not formal "your". it just means "the". but in Italian when you speak directly to someone in this way, an assumption is made. "the jacket" is "your jacket". now it might not actually be yours. but in the situation it most likely is and can be assumed to be. so Italians won't always say "la tua giacca". the phrase "a casa" is similar in the sense that their are no personal possessive adjectives. but it still means the home of the person being talked about. "sta adando a casa" means he is going home or he is going to his house.
PATRICK You're absolutely incorrect. The formality stems from the use of the formal direct object pronoun "La" -- meaning "you" [ we're imploring YOU to...] and it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with la giacca and it isn't the definite article 'the'. The "La" here means YOU meaning we're imploring a person to put on a jacket, with whom we have a formal relationship.
"Metta la Sua giacca per favore." Does this work? It seems to me that it should.
Keith, I think it should. The difference I hear is one of politeness or formality (Duo) and abruptness (yours), but grammatically I believe it's correct.
The possible translations to this are many. The thing is, as one other participant somewhere else pointed out, that you have to use as literal a translation as you can. In light of that, I wrote it as I would say it to a friend/someone I know, using a more subtle imperative. Metti la tua giacca per favore. Maybe "tua" would not be used in vernacular, but it should be right. Therefore, and I'm 100% sure about it, my translation should be accepted. On a 2nd try I used "La prego di mettere la Sua giacca" and it was accepted. That is not correct because the english phrase is direct speech and the answer I gave is indirect. Please have it corrected.
Questa "nuova" traduzione è ancora considerata sbagliata ai fini di perdere un cuoricino...-
Yes. You can use this sentence if you put something on your jacket. For instance (during a meeting): "Si prega di mettere il vostro nome sulla giacca"
I can't imagine when saying something so unnatural. "Si metta la giacca, per favore, qui è obbligatorio", (put your jacket on, here it's mandatory), because you're in a place in which you're obligated to... maybe in English it's rude, but not in Italian... probably in Parliament they are used to say that.
"prego, metta la sua giacca" ! ma chi ha insegnato a Duo l'italiano "parlato" ?
DL is teaching an Italian that's not really Italian, just close to, but at the end the learners here will say sentences that Italians are not used to. "Prego, metta la sua giacca" (please, put on your jacket) "posso mettere la giacca di qualcun altro, la mia non mi piace" (can I put on the someone else's jacket, I don't like mine) :D Jokes apart, as I already said, I'm not able to think of any situation in which it's possible to say that.