"I have a crab and you have a mouse."

Translation:Tá portán agam agus tá luch agat.

4 years ago

50 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/mcdermottc1

Why luchóg?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/elf337

I'd like to know that well, never seen luchóg before (done about a dozen practice exercises a day for the last week) but was marked down for not picking it along with the more familiar 'luch'

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JeSuisJane
JeSuisJane
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The suffix "óg", which means young, is often added onto the end of an Irish word to form a diminutive version. For example: béalóg = "small opening", from béal (opening) + óg; craobhóg = "small branch", from "craobh" (branch) + óg. As stated by someone else, with citation, it appears that luchóg began life like this and then came to mean "mouse" in general, specifically in Ulster Irish. Here's a quick explanation from wikipedia as well: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/-óg#Irish (Although I do recommend consulting dictionaries for the best information, of course!)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulMcEnan1

Be nice if they bothered teaching the grammar before putting it in practice.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/nosleep4
nosleep4
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I agree sometimes but this seems how we've learned most of what we know and how children learn, plus I think when we talk about it, we may remember it better.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BaiShann
BaiShannPlus
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naw. What would we get to complain about then? :)

8 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Tarjava

+1, I checked here to get an answer. Not sure if luchóg is just another word for mouse, or a different writing because of ? I'm curious.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

I presume you guys are all talking about a "Mark all correct" exercise, that included a sentence with luchóg as well as the "default" luch?

Both luch and luchóg mean "mouse", though the fact that both FGB entries include different versions of "sea-mouse" (luchóg mhara and luch fharraige) suggest that it might be a dialect difference. (Though nowadays, luchóg might suggest a "cute little mouse", versus a health hazard).

Potafocal includes references to both forms for computer mice: le clic nó dhó luiche - "with one or two mouse clicks"
ní thagann méarchlár ná luch leis - "it doesn't come with a keyboard or mouse"
na cnaganna luchóige - "the mouse clicks"
luchóg leictreach - "electronic mouse"
(This last example comes from a sentence with an interesting translation of "index finger" - le cuidiú ón luchóg leictreach agus do mhéar sróna).

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/NeilSands
NeilSands
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Actually, in my case anyway, there is only one right answer, wuth luchóg. There isn't one with luch. So I've got this right because the other two were wrong, but it's still disorientating to be taught by Duolingo that luch is mouse, only to see luchóg for the first time when it's testing you.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Grace419433

Thanks that was really helpful!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/moloughl
moloughl
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Dinneen's dictionary (early 1900s) gives the following information under luch:
luch = a mouse
luch fhranncach or franncach = a rat
luch féir = a shrew or field mouse
luchóg and luichín are diminutives.
In Ulster; luchóg bheag = a mouse; luchóg mhór = a rat; luchóg = either rat or mouse.

Under luchóg:
luchóg = a young mouse, a mouse;
luchóg mhór = a rat (Ulster)

O'Reilly's dictionary (early 1800s) gives:
luch = a captive, a prisoner; a mouse. Welsh, llugoden (modern spelling = llygoden).
luch-fhéir = a field-mouse, a shrew, a dormouse.
luch-fhrancach = a rat.
luchóg = a young mouse.

So it would appear that luchóg = a mouse (rather than a young mouse) is from the Ulster dialect.

Both dictionaries give luchlann = a prison, which links with luch = a prisoner.

luch, luchóg and the Welsh llygoden are all feminine nouns.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DaghdhaEire

Dinneen was a relative of mine. Great to see him cited.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/FjollydurLupa

-óg is in the feminine right? But you also cited "luichín" as a diminutive. I'm wondering if that's a dialectual variation, or if Irish uses masculine and feminine suffixes depending on the gender of the individual rather than the gender of the word.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
SatharnPHL
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"ín" as a diminutive is generally masculine, and is the reason that "cailín" is a masculine noun ("cailleach" is a femine noun), but words like "braillín" and "aintín", where the "ín" isn't a diminutive, can still be feminine.

"óg" is generally a feminine ending, and this has nothing to do with it's use as a diminutive - "bróg" and "póg" are feminine words and "óg" isn't a diminutive in those cases (the "óg" in those words doesn't mean "young").

Seánín and Liamóg are two common examples of diminutives attached to boys names, even though "óg" is normally a "feminine" ending for a noun. Equally, Póilín is the normal translation of the girls name, Pauline.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AGreatUserName
AGreatUserName
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When I go to Ireland, I want to just say this to everyone I see.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/daithiocoinnigh

I will never forget that crab is portán now.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MacSuibhne

When speaking, is it necessary to restate "tá" in the second half of the sentence? I made an English move and said "Tá portán agam agus luch agat."

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/knittingarch

I'm not positive, but I think the tá is part of the subject-verb combination, so I think you need it to express "you have."

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/moloughl
moloughl
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Is it not more likely to say:

"Tá portán agam agus tá luch agatsa."

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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With the sentence focused on the contrast of who has what, I’d imagine that both agam and agat would be emphasized — Tá portán agamsa agus tá luch agatsa.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Chris456703

Frozen at this question, and will not continue on, even tried all the choices! All of them produce a wrong answer prompt! Go fig?!!! NÍL me sásta !

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/magic-butterfly

This same thing happened to me. I can't move forward because no mater what answer I give, it tells me I am wrong. How do we move past this question then?

Edit: For some reason right after writing this, I was able to move on from this question.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BaiShann
BaiShannPlus
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I have found that, only recently, with both French and Japanese. What I am reduced to doing is copying the answer and then pasting it in the next time the question appears.

8 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Reymonkey

I'm having the same problem and hit report. Literally every answer seems to come back with Incorrect, even when it shows me the exact answer I selected as one of the correct answers underneath, it still says my selection is wrong.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
SatharnPHL
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I can absolutely guarantee that nobody reading your comment here can do anything about the problem that you're describing.

Take screenshots (https://support.duolingo.com/hc/en-us/articles/204856044-How-do-I-take-a-screenshot-) and submit a bug report (https://support.duolingo.com/hc/en-us/articles/204728264-How-do-I-report-a-bug) including details about which version of the app or the web browser that you are using.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Reymonkey

Well I did click report on the question as well, but I will use the report a bug thing you just linked, thank you! I actually repeated the whole lesson from scratch and ran into the exact same problem so there's definitely something amiss.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
SatharnPHL
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The people that the "Reports" go to (and I'm not convinced that they are being read anymore), have no more access to the mechanics of how Duolingo presents multiple choice answers than you or I do. Only Duolingo engineers can do anything about that, and it's unlikely that any of them are doing the Irish course.

If you have screenshots that clearly demonstrate the issue, you can also post them in the Troubleshooting stream, to see if anyone can suggest a reason for what you're seeing or a solution/workaround. You might also find out if the same thing is occurring in other languages.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CourtnyeMc

i got this twice in one go woah

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/HetaliaCA

This problem was definitely a pain. Unneccessary confusion but thank the comment section for the assist.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scratchconlon

quick question, could you use mé instead of the first tá?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/moloughl
moloughl
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No. The "mé" is incorporated into "agam". "Mé" is a pronoun and = I or me.
"Tá" is a verb and = Is/Are/Am.
There is no direct verb in Irish to match "have".
Instead the combination "Tá ... ag ..." is used.
Sometimes "Tá ... ar ..." is used.
The format is like "Tá (noun) ag (somebody)".
Some examples:
Tá cat ag Áine = Anne has a cat.
Tá cat aici = She has a cat. Here the "ag" is not missing; it is incorporated into "aici". See ag
Tá slaghdán ar Shéamas = James has a cold.
Tá slaghdán orm = I have a cold. Here "ar" is incorporated into "orm". See ar.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MajestfulQueen

when they asked me this question I wrote this and now I did it and it's wrong I don't get it?!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SteffanieS
SteffanieS
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Process of elimination. Since I hadn't seen luchog before, I knew it must be right, and Duolingo was teaching me something new by trial and error. There was an apple in one choice and a horse in the other. I had to pick luchog. Be patient. I think it all works out if you just keep going.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TreasaWilson

It's probably a good way to make sure you remember, but I find these curved balls quite annoying. If they teach you that luch is mouse, how on earth are you supposed to suddenly grasp that luchog is as well?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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The suffix -óg is a diminutive in Irish, so the odds are good that luchóg has some relationship to luch.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TreasaWilson

Simple if you know that!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

The word óg meaning "young" is used in a number of exercises on Duolingo. You learn that it is used as a diminutive by being exposed to it, such as in exercises like this.

In Ireland, boys named after their fathers often have óg tacked onto their name to distinguish them - Seán-óg or Liamóg. ín is used in the same way (Seánín, but not Liamín).

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GARMADANGE

ltheam

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AnonymouslyIrish
AnonymouslyIrish
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Luchóg isn't a regular mouse any more than a teachín is a mansion. While yes it's related, it's not the same thing

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ciara160399

A bad idea to advertise on my way home from home and Garden in the UK and the rest.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BaiShann
BaiShannPlus
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Duolingo marked me wrong, giving this as the correct answer: Tá portán agam is tá luch agat.

8 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dorothy1234

YAYIGOTITRIGHT

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Grace419433

GOOD FOR YOU DUDE!!!!!!!!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Angelgirl360

i did this 20 times i give up.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/moloughl
moloughl
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Persevere! It is a tricky one because the Irish construction is so unlike the English.

Rearrange it in stages to get it into the Irish form:

I have a crab ---> A crab is at me ---> Is a crab at me = Tá portán ag mé ---> Tá portán agam

Remember
(i) the verb comes first in Irish
(ii) then the subject
(iii) there is no indefinite article (a)
(iv) Tá ... ag means to have
(v) ag mé is combined into agam. See ag

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Angelgirl360

ok

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/paul621024

It is luch

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JinxyKitty

I selected the right answer. Duo said it was wrong. I then selected the other two and Duo said they were wrong too.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Reymonkey

See in the thread above, others are encountering the same error. Use the bug report system and send a screenshot, and hopefully it will be fixed soon!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/savagecheetah
savagecheetah
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It is difficult to remember the differences between I have and I am. I am just a beginner, too many different words tto express the verbs

3 years ago
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