"Voglio che ci lavori lui su tutto."

Translation:I want him to work on everything.

June 3, 2013

31 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/dsofer

I am not sure about the difference between "Voglio che ci lavori lui su tutto." and "Voglio che lui lavori su tutto." Is the "ci" redundant in this context or does it imply something about where he is working, perhaps something like "I want him to work over there on everything"?

June 3, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Muttley71
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In this sentence, there is a special stress on "lui". The speaker wants him and not someone else to work on it (the subject is expressed and not in its normal position). The "ci" is part of the expression "lavorarci" ("ci lavoro/i/a") which means "work on it".

November 9, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/darkpeak

thanks

September 28, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/psapho1

Thanks

November 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/mark6w
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I simply don't grok why 'su' is used here with lavorarci. It seems redundant to use both.

June 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Muttley71
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I tell you a secret: Italians didn't create their language to test yourv ability to spot oddities. They created it so that they could communicate with each other. What doesn't make sense to you, is perfectly fine with Italians.
Lavorare (lavorarci) su means 'to work on'. Lavorare means 'to work'. English also requires 'on' to give the extra mening.

June 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Keith352848

Actually, Muttley, the language evolved from Latin and various other modes of communication and Italians evolved with it, speaking it from birth. They didn't "create" anything. There was simply no incentive to question the living language because its randomness was second nature. Thousands of years down the road, there is nothing wrong with looking for rules that dictate grammar, or with expressing frustration when they are not there. It's a way to learn. While there is no real direct translation, my American brain considers this sentence and wonders several things. If lavorarci means work on IT, then the sentence seems to say "I want him to work on it everything." That sounds, and most likely is redundant, even if it is considered correct. Pleonasms are not hard to spot, and it becomes easier as one learns the correct usages of words in a new language. It's alright that my ear hears that oddly and looks for a correction whether it is correct in Italian or not. One thing I've learned in my year and a half of study on this site is that there are most likely half a dozen other ways to say the exact same thing in Italian, some of which probably make a more easily translatable sense. Nothing beats being in country and hearing the spoken language everyday, getting used to the sound of it and its sometimes nonsensical grammar as the natives have. It's a beautiful language, but if it were perfect it wouldn't be continuing to evolve. It is, phasing out less used verb tenses, etc. Lastly, Duolingo is not helpful by insisting that constructions are correct in one exercise, and insisting that they are wrong in another. The trainer is also flawed, as are all languages. Spotting oddities, i.e., using one's intuition, is the first step in being able to ignore what is counter-intuitive and move on.

September 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/TheFinkie
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Thank you for this reply! I find it very annoying when people degrade learners for taking an academic approach to learning a language. However random it may seem, there is always a pattern, and finding relationships between a familiar language and an unknown language is a lot more successful than "thinking like a child".

October 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

The joy is that we all learn in different ways. In fact I find this site one of the most tolerant and I dont think there is any intention to degrade each other. On the contrary most posters are pleasant and just reflect their own preferred style. Each to their own. Please dont feel critisised

October 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Muttley71
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The fact that Italian (and other Romance languages) evolved from Latin doesn't mean that there is a one to one relation between the two.
Expressions are created by speaker in a living environment and often don't make any actual sense.

And, most of the times, expressions are created out of the blue and then enter into the language: we can sometimes trace their origins but that doesn't help someone whose native language is not Italian. Indeed knowing the origin of an expression is not a requirement to use that same expression.
As for the rest, I agree with you.

September 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

Mutley I agree entirely. So much energy is wasted grappling with constructs that appear problematic in English. Particularly with pronouns. We simply have to familiarise ourselves ourselves with the Italian use of pronouns. This is just the way it is said. Think like a child. They dont care about the logic of language

June 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/peter2108

There is another sentence in this lesson Non voglio che lei lavori su tutto (I don't want her to work on everything). Presumably that could be Non voglio che ci lavori lei su tutto?

July 18, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Muttley71
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Not really. "Ci" may be a tricky thing because it can take the places of several other parts of the sentence. In this case "ci" would stand for "su questo" and "lavorarci" is actually an expression (idiom) with the meaning work on it.

Besides, it seems to me that you are actually shooting the messenger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_the_messenger): Duolingo is trying to teach Italian that (as all languages) has nuances and meanings that are difficult to translate.
An open mind always helps :-)

June 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/wiplala

HA, you are so right!! I just get so frustrated sometimes because in the last sentence I make a mistake and then have to do the whole exercise once more. Ah well, as you say, it is useful to make mistakes and learn by them. Thanks anyway.

June 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Muttley71
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That is the right spirit! You deserve a lingot for that :-)

June 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Berto29441
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Sorry, but I disagree. In the Italian sentence (if "ci" does not mean "here" or "there") there is either a "ci" or a "su tutto" out of place.This is a trick often used by DL, by purpose or for lack of knowledge of the language. Of course, the only possible correct translation (I want him to work here on everything) is consider wrong.

December 17, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Muttley71
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ci is very flexible and has several meanings:. http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/ci_%28La-grammatica-italiana%29/.

Lavorarci is an expression: it means 'to work on'. If you read the ci as the adverbs 'there/here' then su tutto doesn't make sense in the Italian sentence. The su tutto is indeed the signal that the expression lavorarci ('work on something') is used and not lavorare + ci ('to work here/there').

December 17, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Berto29441
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You can not teach me what "ci" means. "Ci", from low Latin hici (for the classical "hic") mean mainly here, there (not on) and is an adverb. It's a pronominal particle with "noi" (essi ci chiamano = they call us) or with the pronominal verbs (lavorare is not pronominal). Sometimes is simply pleonastic, and perhaps this is the case. "Su tutto" is a nonsense, as I wrote, or is redundant, if we consider the "ci". Of course when the sentence that we have to translate is another nonsense, any translation (as I wrote) can be a possible translation.

December 18, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

Oh dear

December 18, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

idiomatic verbs/ pronominal verbs need to be translated as they are with the idiomatic meaning. It doesnt work if you try to separate the pronoun and translate it separately

December 18, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/wiplala

Yes, I had the same thaughts about this. DL is not very consequent here.

June 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Blomeley
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I understand that 'ci' can replace 'su + noun', as well as meaning 'there' or 'us'.

so in this case 'ci' i think replaces 'on it' as in 'he works on it'. But then when we want to say 'all', by using 'tutto', we have to reintroduce the 'su'. So overall the sentence is saying "I want that he work on all of the (unknown) thing"

don't hold me to that though, i'm still very much a learner!

July 4, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/vik000
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Is this real italian?

April 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/TheFinkie
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This is the first question in over a year of studying Duolingo that I have had to give up on. Absolutely impossible. I would be curious to know if anyone actually does get this question correct on the first try or whether it is just me having trouble.

I still have no idea how the grammar works. I guess it's just a case of memorising this particular sentence to pass the lesson.

October 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/BobMallord
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It might make more sense (if language is supposed to actually make sense) to think of "ci" in this (and other similar cases) as a pronoun of reference or respect. It would not be translated but understood in English something like, "I want him to work on everything (in respect to this job or task)" In this sense one would not think that the meaning would be that he work on everything in the entire universe.

February 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/RichardWil528737

I want him to work on all of it - marked wrong. Should it be?

March 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Keith352848

So, just for the record, would I be incorrect, and, more important, would I be misunderstood if I were to say "Voglio che lui lavori su tutto."?

October 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Marees
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I agree, I think the "ci" in this position means "there" maybe it is not necessary that it be translated...

June 9, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

I tried "there" and lost a heart

March 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Berto29441
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There or here. Simply the "right" translation does not translate the "ci", and without this "ci" the sentence is different.(

December 17, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

Stick with lavorarci as the infinitive. Mutley is quite right. Ci has many uses. This one is part of the verb

December 18, 2017
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