"How much I have thought of you!"
Translation:Quanto ti ho pensata!
74 CommentsThis discussion is locked.
what confused me is "pensata" which I thought did not change whether you are thinking of a man or of a woman. Usually the past participle changes with the gender of the nominative when the verb is intransitive like in sono entrata if it is a female or sono entrato if it is a male.
I still think that "ti" is indirect object like in "mi piace" therefore I am still confused why it is "pensata" instead of "pensato". Could anybody from Duolingo answer our questions?
I have read through all these comments as I am also very puzzled by this. It is very disappointing that in the 5 years since this question was asked there has been no contribution from a moderator. Up to very recently people are still asking why 'pensata' not 'pensato'. However I googled "quanta ti ho pensata" and found that the same sentence has another discussion page on Duo and there is an explanation on there. I recommend having a look. In summary it seems that the verb pensare takes an indirect object in expressions such as "penso a mia figlia", "penso a mio fratello", but when the noun is replaced by the pronoun it becomes a direct object. ("La penso", "lo penso" instead of "le penso", "gli penso"). So in this case the 'ti' is a direct object preceding the past participle, which therefore has to agree. But it would be great if someone with authority could confirm this, it often feels as if there is nobody from Duo looking at our questions.
FrancesDav3, I agree with your comment completely. Duo has not answered any questions about any languages for years. It's almost as if they made this course and then they forgot about it and let the students find out by themselves. Many people think that because it's free, that's OK. It is not OK. If Duo wants people to respect their courses, they should get some moderators in every language. I am taking German right now and it's the same problem day in and day out. Nobody has been home, for years!! The exception is Greek where they have good moderators in the iPhone app.
Yes you are right, it's not ok. I feel very bad writing any sort of criticism because Duo is a brilliant free opportunity to learn a language and interact with other learners and native speakers. And I'm sure an awful lot of work goes on behind the scenes and I wouldn't want to be ungrateful. But the learners do need to be able to have confidence in what they are being taught. When questions go unanswered by moderators, other learners often step in, which can be great - as when native speakers do a course in reverse in order to help those learning their language. Or when learners further down the road can efficiently answer the question. But it can be a case of the blind leading the blind; misleading information and opinions can be posted and remain uncorrected for months or years. Somebody needs to be in overall control and available to provide some guidance.
FrancesDav3, you are correct. The main problem of Duo not having moderators in German is the presence of other students who are not native speakers that step in and lead you the wrong way with opinions that usually are not correct. It's exactly like you said: "blind people leading other blind ones". I salute some native speakers who try to correct Duo's mistakes but when questions go unanswered for months if not years, the frustration increases because you want to learn a language well.
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FrancesDav3 wrote:"However I googled "quanta ti ho pensata" and found that the same sentence has another discussion page on Duo and there is an explanation on there. I recommend having a look"
Here is the link. Once you are there search for "atonic" to find the relevant posts by sandrabuck and sharkbbb. (FrancesDav3 has summarised the content rather well though)
https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/203507/Quanto-ti-ho-pensata
I googled from french to italia " j'ai pensé à toi" . The answer was "ti ho pensato" because it was not precised who was thinking of whom,
That's very useful @FrancesDav3! Thanks for the clarification and have a lingot. Does anyone know if there are other verbs like this or if pensare is just an anomaly in that regard?
I chose both 'Quanto ti ho pensato' and 'Quanto ti ho pensata' because I thought that the past participle changed according to the gender of 'ti' which is not evident in this example. So I have the same question!
Can some grammar guru tell me whether 'ti' is a direct object pronoun or an indirect object pronoun in this case? If it is a direct object pronoun referring to a feminine object, DL is correct to use 'pensata' instead of 'pensato.' If it is an indirect object, 'pensato' should be used.
How much = Quanto
I have thought = ho pensato(/a) *
of you = ti / a te
Quanto ho pensato/a a te. / Quanto ti ho pensato/a.
*
As pensare is using avere as auxiliar to form passato prossimo you don't have to align the participle to gender and number, - unless you are using a direct object pronoun, - mi, ti, lo, la, ci, vi, li, le.
In this case the past participle acts as an adjective and must be modified to suit the gender and number of the object.
https://www.thoughtco.com/direct-object-pronouns-in-past-tense-2011704
Pensare a X = think about X
Pensare di Y = to think of Y (with some intention, or opinion on Y)
When "pensato" (or any passato prossimo verb for that matter) is referring to the direct object pronouns for "them" (li/le), it is required to change the ending of the verb to match the gender. However, when you are referring to a single person, it is optional to change the verb ending. Unfortunately, Duo doesn't seem to have that bit of grammar in their system
I answered 'Quanto ho pensato di te'.
I didn't follow the format being used in the lesson and placed the object pronoun after the verb instead of before it. Is my answer wrong?
You are absolutely right. I didn't know the difference between 'pensare a' and 'pensare di' when i originally posted. Those darn prepositions make all the difference. Thanks for the reply.
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Quanto ho pensato a te accepted........Pensare a = think about...Pensare di = to think of....in the sense of having an intention to do do something.
Penso a te = I think about (of) you
Penso di mangiare = I think of eating.
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Pensare di, just like the English "to think of", is also: to have an opinion about. For example there is another Duo sentence "What would your friends think of you?" = Cosa penserebbero i tuoi amici di te?
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some verbs require a particular preposition to use with infinitives, nouns, or pronouns or phrases. 'pensare' is one of those verbs. here is an abridged listing of some of those verbs in which 'pensare' is listed twice. https://www.thoughtco.com/italian-verbs-and-prepositions-2011671
however, "cosa pensi di questo libro."
To complicate things, pensare a te and pensare di te have different meanings. See Word Reference: http://www.wordreference.com/iten/pensare
In French and Italian the verb to think is usually followed by the propositon "a" not "de of di.
Here is what cacioepepe was referring to, some exceptions that use di.
modo di pensare way of thinking n pensare bene di (opinion of others) think highly of [sb], have a good opinion of [sb], think well of [sb] vtr pensare che sia il caso di think you ought to vtr pensare di essersi liberati di qualcuno think that you have freed yourself of [sb] expr pensare fuori dagli schemi
In thinking about it more, the more "Italian way" of phrasing this idea in English is not "I have thought OF you" but "I have thought TO you"... So the proper translations would be "Quanto ho pensato a te!" or "Quanto ti ho pensato!"
"quanto vi ho pensato" should be accepted, as there was nothing to indicate that the you in the english sentence was purely singular
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pensare di means to have an opinion about, or else to think about doing something.
pensare a is to have a thought about something/someone, without any particular judgement about it being made
I'm with you... Since it was a statement of emphasis, one would think "di te" would have been acceptable.
One more vote in this case: I also thought that and wrote : QUANTO HO PENSATO A TE but unfortunately was not accepted. DUOLINGO TAKE A NOTE!!!
(non italian) I think that is where the difference lies. (I'm falling back on my German also) You can think about something or you can think of something. When I think about my children it's more of a what will they become, have they done their homework, why are they bugging each other all the time while when I think of them it's more like a memory of them, being close to my heart at that point. This difference exists in German, too, and I think it may help me remember when to use 'di' (about) or 'a' (of). If I got this right?!!! Anyone else?
If you use the plural "you" (vi), then you need to decline "pensato" to match (pensati)
But even if it agrees with the direct object placed before the verb it still doesn't explain why "pensato" is not accepted: it could be a woman thinking of a man..
I read if we use the ending -ate, it's meaning females, if we use -ati, it means all males or a mixed group, and if we use the ending -ato, there is no info on gender.
I used Quanto ho pensato a tè and it was accepted.
Because "ti" or "a te" functions as an indirect object in "Quanto ti ho pensato" and the equivalent "Quanto ho pensato a te," you do not decline the past participle "pensato" according to number or gender. It would be declined if the helping verb were "essere" instead of "avere", or if the pronoun were a direct object. So "Quanto ti ho pensato" and "Quanto ho pensato a te" are both correct whether the indirect object "ti" or "te" is masculine or feminine. "Quanto vi ho pensato" is also correct, although Duolingo apparently didn't think of that one.
I have to correct myself on this. I just checked a couple of Italian sources. It is most common to not conjugate the past participle in sentences like this, so you would usually hear "Quanto ti ho pensato" whether the the "ti" refers to a male or female, but "Quanto ti ho pensata" is also correct if the object is femminine. Similarly, "Quanto vi ho pensato" is correct and most common, but "Quanto vi ho pensati" and "Quanto vi ho pensate" are also correct for a plural object, depending on the gender makeup of the group. Entrambe sono corretti.
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As has already been reported here a number of times, Quanto ho pensato a te is accepted. Not "di te" though, since pensare di implies a judgement (as in: what do you think of that?) rather than a mere thought.
I think *a te' would be possible . . . but not 'di te'.
But then perhaps that is not the form DL is exercising and trying to teach us in this section?
Can someone tell me why "Quanto ho pensato di te" is marked as incorrect pleaes?
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See my answer to this question just above. (It has been answered several times already by a number of different people, so if you don't like my attempt at an explanation, by all means hunt around for others)
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This wouldnt be expressed like this in English...it might be "How much I have been thinking of you". By the way, I put pensatO and it wasn't marked wrong but the translation didn't match mine (and had pensatA) so came on here. Am doubly confused because my pensato is sometimes right???
The gender of ti needs to match in pensato/a. When a direct object pronoun precedes the conjugated avere, the participle needs to match gender and number. Since the English doesn't convey which gender (or even number), the translation to Italian should accept each of the possibilities.
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It is a bit of a mystery how ti here can be the direct object of the verb pensare though. There is a discussion about this toward the top of the thread, instigated by a comment of FrancesDav3.
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pensare di is "to think of" in the sense of "to have an opinion about" (eg cosa pensi di lui? = what do you think of him); while "to think of" in the sense of "to have a thought about" is pensare a" (thus penso sempre a te/ti penso sempre* = I always think of you)
O ernt to and resf all I could. O am a retired Englidh teacher who grew up with a non-English dpeaking Nonna and don't really want to go into great grammatical detail. I just want yo be more fluent in speevh and reading. I really have no one but one of 21 grands to practice with, so I read.
The msin point I hot was yo watch out for the clitics. THAT is why a rathrr than o: pensata!
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Can you tell me why Quanto ti ho pensato is incorrect. The student is not aware ot the gender. Is ther any explanation?
Quanto ti ho pensato/a = How much I have thought of you.
Chose pensato/a depending on if "ti" is male or female.