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  5. "I hear them."

"I hear them."

Translation:Eu as ouço.

June 6, 2013

33 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DerekLaugh

"Os ouço" is not acceptable here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paulenrique

You can also say "Eu os ouço", but not only "Os ouço" since it is considered grammatically incorrect. You can't start a sentence with this kind of pronoun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NeitanGran

Aqui em São Paulo raramente vejo alguém dizer "eu os ouço/escuto" geralmente dizemos "eu ouço/escuto eles(as)", mas acredito que ambos estão corretos


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/o_scott

why is "eu lhes ouco" incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paulenrique

Yes. "Lhes" is used with verbs that require a preposition, and ouvir requires no preposition.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zaSOLxxQ

Really? Because, despite that, Duolingo has accepted other instances such as: “Ela lhes ajudar”.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Scutigera

Really? Because, despite that, Duolingo has accepted other instances such as: “Ela lhes ajudar”.

I am curious about this zaSOLxxQ. Do you happen to have a link?

Thx! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/somepie

What is the difference between "Eu os ouço"and "Eu as ouço"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kauev

The difference between 'a/o/as/os" is simply the gender of the object that's being referred to.

This sentence has distinct meanings because in Portuguese "They" can work as 'Eles - masc.' or as 'Elas - femin.'.

"Them" is the direct object of the simple pronoun "They", and this object pronoun in Portuguese is mostly translated as 'os - masc.' and 'as - femin.'. Since there's no noun to define the gender and to match the pronoun to it, you can use either the object pronoun as the feminine or the masculine.

If you had the clause "The men talk to me, I hear them", you'd know that the pronoun should be masculine. On the other hand, if it was "My sisters are smart, I hear them", then you'd have the feminine pronoun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jamie.trigg

Hey thanks this makes sense, but can I just ask how then you would say the examples you give in your last paragraph, in Portuguese. "The men talk to me, I hear them" and "My sisters are smart, I hear them" "os homems conversar para mim, eu ouço eles" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kauev

In Portuguese, "talk to" is translated to "conversar com" (lit. talk with), as in a casual conversation. So here we'd have:

  • The men talk to me, I hear them = Os homens conversam comigo, eu os ouço.

  • My sisters are smart, I hear them = Minhas irmãs são espertas, eu as ouço.

*Note that when "com" is referring to the 1st and 2nd persons, they become one word:

  • with me/with us = comigo/conosco
  • with you = contigo/convosco

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jamie.trigg

but you still need the os and as at the end even though you know what gender it is referring to? Is that because os and as are the translation of 'them'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danmoller

Yes. "Os" and "as" are the translations of "them".

The version "eu ouço eles" instead of "eu os ouço/ouço-os" is very very popular, but formally wrong by grammar (since it's like using "they" instead of "them").

But no one would ever mind it, unless they are really grammar addicted. In texts though, if you want to prove you know formal Portuguese, use only "os/as".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JP564

Male and female forms ? A male group of people vs. a female one. But where do you make the distinction ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/davidkzach

Generally, if the groups are all one gender or the other, the choice is obvious. If there is mixed company, you always defer to the masculine. So, even a group of 20 women and 1 man would be referred to as "eles" or "os".

That is my impression, at least. Please correct me if I am wrong!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Teresinha

You are right! I am Brazilian. In Brazil we speak Portuguese.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RomaRRio

Can I write "Eu ouço os" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kauev

Never, because the pronouns "a/o/as/os" are always the direct object of the action and if they're placed after the verb, they lose their value as a pronoun and become acting as an article; e.g. "Eu ouço os barulhos" - "I hear the noises" x "Eu os ouço fazendo os barulhos" - "I hear them making the noises".

There's the case on which you MUST place the object pronoun after the verb, but when this happens, you shouldn't use the simple pronoun (eu, tu, ele, nós, eles...) while starting the sentence; Instead, you go straight to the verb and inflect it with the desired pronoun: "Ouço-os fazendo os barulhos" - "I hear them making the noises", "Vejo-as cantando" - "I see them singing", "Faça-os parar!" - Make them stop!".

In Portuguese, these pronouns are called Pronomes Oblíquos Átonos. and the order they appear in the sentence tells you if it is proclitic (pron. before the verb), enclitic (after the verb linked with a hyphen) or mesoclitic (within the verb linked with two hyphens between the verb and the inflection).

-Proclitic (the informal way, at least is the most used): Eu os ouço claramente (I hear them clearly);

-Enclitic (the basic and correct form, usually linking the verb to its complement): Ouço-os claramente (I hear them clearly);

-Mesoclitic (only for future perfect or conditional clauses): Ouvir-los-ei claramente (I'll hear them clearly) :simplifying: Eu os ouvirei claramente.

If you want to know more about it and its functions, I recommend you some websites:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_personal_pronouns#Subject.2C_object.2C_and_complement (Look for 'OBJECT PRONOUN')

http://www.learningportuguese.co.uk/language/object-pronouns.html

http://pt.wikibooks.org/wiki/Portugu%C3%AAs/Classifica%C3%A7%C3%A3o_das_palavras/Pronomes/Pessoais

http://www.brasilescola.com/gramatica/colocacao-pronominal.htm

http://www.soportugues.com.br/secoes/morf/morf44.php

http://www.soportugues.com.br/secoes/sint/sint74.php


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danmoller

In fact, you can put the pronoun after the verb (as the "Enclitic" example shows).

But whenever you put it after the verb, you must use an hyphen: "ouço-os".

What defines whether it goes before or after the verb is the presence of an "attractive word" before the verb.

Negative words are attactive, for instance.

  • Não os ouço
  • Ninguém os ouve

You should never start a sentence with one of these pronouns, though:

  • Os ouço is a wrong sentence. It shall be "ouço-os"

I'm not sure if "eu" is an attractive word, the sources do not agree and I'm not an expert.

Nevertheless, these rules are almost completely ignored by Brazilian people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RomaRRio

Cool, thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sprinkled

What is the difference between "Eu ouço" and "Eu oiço"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Davu

They are synonyms. I suspect "oiço" isn't used much or is only used in European Portuguese but I don't know for sure. [Edit: I found some more info here: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=333634]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sprinkled

Thanks! I guess I'll have to remember to answer in Brazilian Portuguese. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SisterHaskell

Just to check, in Brazil it would be equally correct to say "eu ouço eles," right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ps42311p

Does 'Eu escuto deles' work here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kauev

No, 'deles' means 'their/theirs'.

In Brazilian Portuguese, you could say "Eu ouço eles" - "I hear they", though this form is extremely informal and it's used only in conversation. If you need to write an essay, for example, you'd have to write "Eu os/as ouço" or "Ouço-os/as".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danmoller

That's it.

But you can use "eu ouço deles" when the thing you hear is implied.

The meaning, however, would be "I hear from them"

"Eu ouço (as palavras) deles" - I hear (the words) from them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kauev

You're right, I completely agree with you when you put it like that, though I'm pretty sure this happens due to the contraction of the prep. 'de' with the pron. 'eles'. It usually denotes a possession clause, origin or so, and by any means, possessive cases should be given with their respective form for 3rd person plural 'seu/sua/seus/suas' in order to avoid confusion;

-"Eu ouço (as palavras) de ti" - "I hear (the words) from you"

-"Eu ouço (as palavras) deles" - "I hear (the words) from them"

-"Eu ouço (as palavras) de dentro do carro - "I hear (the words) from inside the car"

-"Eu ouço suas palavras de dentro do carro" - "I hear their/your words from inside the car".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Teresinha

Congratulations, Kauev! I am Brazilian and I'm here admiring their explanations. I am available to take any questions but unfortunately my English is not good enough for that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danmoller

And, surely, "eu ouço as palavras deles" is also "I hear their words" (in fact this is more common than "from them").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/moudy93

I'm sorry, but isn't deles/delas supposed to be possessive adjectives?

Palavras deles = their words - no?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maredith.goodin

It did not accept my response because I omitted "Eu" which isn't necessary. "Os ouço" makes complete sense because the conjugation itself identifies the agent making the pronoun "eu" unnecessary.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Davu

It makes sense, but I believe there is a strong tendency (in the written language at least) to avoid starting a sentence with a pronoun like "os". There are three ways to avoid that here: "Eu os ouço", "Ouço-os" and the informal "(Eu) Ouço eles".

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