In this context 'reminded me' needs an object, "..what it has reminded me of' but remembered does not, 'do you know what I have remembered?
I don't know about the rest of the world, but where I live 'remind' is used all the time without the preposition 'of'. It depends on the context. 1. "Do you know what he reminded me of? He reminded me of a big, friendly puppy." 2. "Do you know what he reminded me? He reminded me that I have a dental appointment." Of course, in some circles the first question will raise eyebrows because it ends with a preposition. I suppose I could say "Do you know of what he reminded me?", but almost nobody says it like that. :)
I - English native - was taught never to end a sentence with a preposition (but I am rather elderly)
Yes you are right, I too was taught never to end a sentence with a preposition, so Do you know of what he reminded me, is technically correct, However it does sound rather formal and I understand it is now considered acceptable to end the sentence with the preposition. A bit like the old split infinitives rule. Language is constantly evolving. It seems that rules are softened in the spoken word but more likely to be retained in the written
This is called preposition stranding, and has been acceptable English since the 1400s and has been since the beginning of the modern language. It was only 200 years later when someone arbitrarily decided to apply Latin grammar to English that people bothered to force this idea in the first place. Might want to save yourself the unnecessary trouble and and just speak and write naturally.
--Yes, or when used in formal situations. I used to tell my students, "When writing to the university president, avoid beginning your letter with 'S'up?' On the other hand, if you knock on your friend's door at 1 a.m., and answer her query with 'It is I, Charlie' she is likely not to believe you!"
Really good explanation. Your answer's at the heart of the age-old debate whether a grammar should restrict itself to neutrally describing how a language is used in the real world; whether it should prescribe what language experts deem correct and appropriate; or whether is should aggressively proscribe usage considered to be against their rules, whether it's what your average native speaker says or not.
Yes, a friend of mine who taught in college told me that a preposition ending a sentence was fine in speaking, not in writing.
So would you say "This is something up with which I will not put"? I guess not! (Another older Brit)
Funnily enough I do often mentally think of a meaning of a sentence in a way I would not speak in English. eg Mi piace= it pleases me rather than I like it. I find it helps me better construct the Italian sentence. It is not necessary to translate into good English all the time. We are learning Italian, not English. If we try too hard to keep thinking in English we will fail to think in Italian and therefore translate badly in to Italian
BampaOwl: To be correct it'd be" This is something with which I will not put up" in which case "up" is no longer functioning as a preposition at all, but rather as a verbal complement. A preposition, as the term implies, means that it must occupy a "pre-position" meaning it has to precede something else, the something else being a noun or pronoun phrase. When what's normally a preposition ceases to function as such but comes to be paired with a verb it can freely move to another part of the sentence. Consider: "We climbed up the ladder" and "We picked up the ladder" which on the surface look very similar but they're NOT. In the first sentence 'up' is a preposition in the prepositional phrase 'up the ladder" and so it's position is fixed and it can't be moved. One couldn't say: "We climbed the ladder up." But in the second 'up' is NOT a preposition, it's a verb complement and as such it can be moved: "We picked the ladder up." So when we're talking about ending or not ending sentences with a 'preposition' we're really talking about ending or not ending a sentence with a verbal complement. Hope this helps.
Thank you all for this exciting discussion. I always try to read the comments after translating a sentence in the hope of learning something new of Italian grammmar. Sometimes I fail to do so, but I am often compensated by picking up useful information concerning the correct usage of the English language instead.
exactly. This is archaic and false concept was carried over from latin....it would be interesting to learn why it entered into the educational system and was incorrectly taught for so long......it is simply not a "rule" that is well suited for modern day English usage.
Another example of the misapplication of Latin grammar is the old rule that one should never split an infinitive. In Latin it makes perfect sense because one can't split an infinitive. But in English it can be done and makes perfect sense.
Depends. In the case of this sentence it is fine because it is a prepositional phrase, but in a question format. If you change it to a sentence the preposition will no longer be at the end.
You also have prepositional nouns like burn out. Example: Tom smokes too much and is a burn out. Out is a preposition and on its own shouldn't be at the end of a sentence, but burn out is a prepositional noun and is grammatically acceptable.
In addition to prepositional nouns there are also preposional verbs and phrasal verbs (similar but different) that also use prepositions.
All of this is standard English and has been so. If you read the classics you will even notice them using prepositions at the end of sentences, it's just you never really notice. I just want to point out it's not a new thing in English.
Also, I am an English teacher.
Yes this is true and very interesting, and two entirely different things. One an action of reminding, and one of invoking a memory without actually doing anything. Language is an amazing thing
Yes. I too was dinged on this one too. I entered " do you know what he reminded me?". Now, whether on not ending a sentence with a preposition is appropriate is not my question. My question is why does DL consider it NECESSARY in this instance. Is there a gramatical reason here?
MarkMcCorn: Your answer: do you know what he reminded me?" makes no sense and is ungrammatical. The verb "remind" needs "of" to complete it...unless it's understood as in "yes, he reminded me..." But phrasing it as you did, as a complete question, is not something any native speaker would say.
MarkMcCorn it isnt a case of whether ending a sentence with a prepositions is appropriate. It is grammatically necessary to have it. In fact to be truly grammatically correct you should say "Do you know of what he reminded me.?"" but few people would say that in normal seech as it sounds stilted
It can't be "I remembered" because the verb is ha not ho. I think you can get "Do you know what has remembered me" but the context needs to be something like a monster movie. :-)
GregHullender: "Do you know what has remembered me" makes no sense at all.
Sai cosa=do you know what, mi=me, ha ricordato=he/she/it has reminded.
. . . so it is he (/she/it) who has reminded me of something
Do you know what he(/she/it) has reminded me (of)
That's what I thought too. Although I put 'Do you know what he remembered of me' - poetically speaking. Why is this not correct?
"He remembered" happens only with him. "He reminded," whether he tells(reminds) (you), or it occurs to you when you see him, happens with the speaker/writer. This lesson reminds me of vocabulary lessons long ago!
I, too, wrote "Do you know what reminded me?" and was marked incorrect 02/01/17. Could someone please help here? I don't understand why this translation is wrong.
PJ180: "what' is not the subject of the verb. It's the object in a sense: He/She reminded me of what? The verb 'ha' has as its subject either 'he' or 'she', possibly 'it' depending on the context, but not 'what'.
Hmmmm...thank you, Germanlehrerlsu. While I understand that in DL's translation "what" is not the subject of the verb, given that there is no context here, it's still not clear to me why it couldn't be. How then would you say, "Do you know what reminded me?"
PJ...Ok, I see your point. I'm not a native, but I'm thinking that: "Sai che cosa mi ha ricordato?" could be how that would be expressed. Now I know that 'che' is often short for 'che cosa' but I think in your question the longer version might be required.
Thank you, Germanlehrerlsu. Next time I come across this - my particular bête noire for the moment - I will give that a try. :-)
"Do you know what it reminded me" is given as a correct answer without the preposition "of" at the end,I'm going to report this.
I put do you know what I have remembered, thought it was the reflexive ricordarsi
Then it would be Sai cosa mi sono ricordato.
(Edited because Koolkaren found an error in my original post.)
Except (and I could have misunderstood this, but I think I have it right) that because the 'mi' would make the verb relexive if used that way, the auxiliary verb would have to be essere, so "Sai cosa mi sono ricordato?" I think it could be "ho ricordato" without the 'mi', though. (And, of course, neither of these works for this question. :) )
I doubt it, since "mention" is not the same as "remind". I could mention there's a race on Saturday, but if you've never heard of said race then I wouldn't be reminding you of anything.
I understand that if it were "she" it'd be "ricordatA" but why? Is it because the object is a pronoun "mi"??? Would the past participle also change from "ricordato" to "ricordata" if the object were "the man" versus "the woman"?
Looks like you've got a pretty solid understanding of it. The really short rule is that after avere the participle agrees with the object if the object is lo, la, li, le, or ne. In the case of ne it only happens when ne refers to a noun, not a phrase. For example, In dodici partite, quanti ne hanno vinte? (In twelve matches, how many did they win?) For mi, ti, ci, vi agreement is optional.
In the example above, mi is the indirect object, not the direct object. That's a bit confusing because in the English "He reminded me of his father" the direct object is "me" but in the Italian Mi ha ricordato suo padre the direct object is suo padre. "He recalled his father to me."
Thanks! I checked the site but am still wondering why "she" was then marked wrong if what you suggest is correct, namely that with "she" it'd still be "ricordato".
She (though not accepted by DL) and he would be the subject of "ha". "Mi" is the object. The subject is understood, not included. I believe that's how you'd explain it.
Good. So should the participle agree with the subject, the object, or neither?
Good question. I thought it agreed with an object pronoun, but to be honest I'm not sure.
My understanding of it -- & I could be wrong -- is that the past participle agrees with a 3RD person pronoun object: him, her, them, it. So: Ho comprato il libro/la penna > l'ho comprato (= il libro), but l'ho comprata (= la penna); ho conosciuto il fratello/la sorella > l'ho conosciuto (= il fratello), but l'ho conosciuta (= la sorella); ho conosciuto i fratelli/le sorelle > li ho conosciuti (= i fratelli), but le ho conosciute (= le sorelle). In the given example, "mi" was the object and my question had to do with whether the subject could be "she" in addition to "he". You I believe correctly pointed out that regardless of whether the subject was "she" or "he" the past participle would remain the same: "ricordato" -- and I think it's because we're not dealing with 3RD person pronoun objects, requiring agreement. The following link has a really concise explanation with examples: http://italian.about.com/od/verbs/a/italian-verbs-past-participle-direct-object-agreement.htm
Yes you are quite right. when pronouns are added to the mix there has to be gender and quantity agreement. At first glance this sentence is confusing but if you break it to it's literal, for me it seems easier. ie Do you know of what thing he reminded me? This suggests to me that the thing (cosa, F) is the object and mi =to me, indirect object. Ricordata then agrees with cosa. Might be right off the boil but seems logical to me
Hi and thanks for adding in. It's appreciated It does seem logical but if true then why in DL's original answer is the past participle ricordatO? I'm still of the opinion that the past participle is unchanged and that the grammatical subject of "ha" could be an understood both "he" (as given) or "she" depending on context.
How would one say, "Do you know what reminded him of me?" (as in 'what was it that made him think of me?') Every time I run into the above translation, that is what I come up with, so I'm hoping that maybe if I knew how one would say my sentence I'll remember this one! Thanks!
I am having a hard time seeing this sentence and getting the correct meaning. I see Do you know what myself he has remembered. So I thought it what be do you know what her remembered ABOUT me but I don' quite get how it is what he reminded me of. Can anyone help me with that?
Susan: I think you're overthinking it. Sai (do you know) cosa (what)mi (me direct object) ha (he [has]) recordato (reminded of)= Do you know what he (has) reminded me of? It's really pretty straight-forward. Hope this helps.
Thanks... I think my problem is ricordare as REMEMBER not REMINDED.... I must ricordo that it is BOTH!
The drop downs suggest that ha could mean you have, but this surprised me and when I tried "Do you know what you reminded of?" Are there special rules as to when ha is used this way?
herrtrebil: I believe you could say it in two ways, using 'ricordare' or its reflexive version 'ricordarsi': Sai che cosa ho ricordato? or Sai che cosa me ne sono ricordato? I believe you can also omit the "che" and go simply with 'cosa'. You should also be able to use: Sai (che) cosa mi sono ricordato. Someone more knowledgable might confirm or correct.
Drbarbie1: I don't find any "made" in the above sentence, possibly in your version. That said, you can't expect a 1 for 1 equivalency between 2 languages. It may very well be that the Italian doesn't use the word "made" while a possible English translation might have to include it to be grammatically correct and to sound natural.
Then how do you ask "Do you know what remindef me?" I put that as my answer here, but it was incorrect and I can't quite understand why.
Shirley, without the "of" -- "reminded me OF' your version sounds incomplete and unnatural.