48 Comments
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Is this using the formal register? Or is there some other reason why "è" means "you" here?
Yes, it is formal since rimanga is third-person singular imperative of rimanere
Because we have had no enlightenment from an Italian expert, let me try this again: The formal second person singular Lei (You, sir/You, ma'am) uses the third person singular verb form. The grammar of the translation is okay on that score; it is correct..
BUT, this is NOT a "polite" utterance, so I don't understand why DL wants us to detect the formal usage (The only thing I can imagine is a warning to the Pope or the President not to move because of danger--it's possible, I suppose).
Another alternative is that this is the third person present of the so-called "imperative" (a relic of Latin hortative mood) that is often translated as "Let him/it stay where he/it is," or, maybe better, "Leave it alone!" If this is right, the given "translation" is simply wrongheaded (also possible, I'm sure).
In any case, we have had, I hope, a "learning experience." Come dovvrebbe essere.
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In general the rule of thumb for conjugating imperative verbs in the singular is as follows: verbs ending "are" have an "a" at the end (e.g. parla = speak) while verbs ending "ere" or "ire" have an "i" at the end e.g. prendi = take);
Or put differently: verbs ending "are" take on the Lei/La form of the present simple; while verbs ending in "ere"/"ire" keep the tu form of the present simple
In the plural the imperative are conjugated in the same why as in the present simple.
I hope that helps
I am by no means an expert so I can address only a part of your comment.
Note that formal you (Lei ) is the 3rd person singular not the 2nd person singular.
http://www.cyberitalian.com/en/html/gra_prpr.html (subject pronouns)
Responding to dnovinc comment (There's no reply option next to his post). Hi dnovinc, I don't agree with the website you quote (http://www.cyberitalian.com/en/html/gra_prpr.html). "Lei" the formal "you" may take the 3rd person conjugation, but it is the 2nd person singular. "I" (myself, me) is the 1st person, "you" both formal and informal (Lei and tu) is the 2nd person, and "he" "she" and "it" is the 3rd person. The person(s) who wrote the website are confused, probably by the way the verbs are conjugated. The conjugation is irrelevant, "you" in whatever way it's expressed is 2nd person.
Whoa! Both of you guys, dnovinc and gordon_gregory, should look at that website again. Lei is listed as 3rd person, because it uses a 3rd person verb, but it is defined in the next column as formal "You." It's correct.
And thanks, by the way, to dnovinc for the link; it gives a quick survey of some grammatical points that may save us all some discussion time. And also thanks to gordon_gregory for being willing to challenge information given on the web; it always deserves scrutiny.
One more comment: Although the encyclopedia gives Voi and Vi as 2nd person and Lei as 3rd, I'm not sure how common that is in actual use. If you want to see what Italians really do, have a look at the Immersion document "Intervista a Humberto Eco." The interviewer consistently addresses Eco as Lei.
@gordon_gregory I don't think the people who wrote that page are confused. Here is a bit more reliable source:
- (b) di terza persona: sing. Lei, Le; pl. Loro; (source: Italian encyclopedia: http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/pronomi-allocutivi_%28Enciclopedia_dell%27Italiano%29/)
In that case we have the report button. There are a lot of possible translations for each individual sentence and there are thousands of sentences in the course therefore Doulingo relies on us users to provide additional translations that haven't been manually added beforehand.
Hi dnovinc,
I'll discuss this issue of "Lei" being 2nd or 3rd person with my tutor next week and get back to you.
'Rimanga' of course being rimanere in the subjunctive present used here as the 2nd person (formal) imperative.
You're right Shirin, it's an odd sentence given DL's hatred on the formal 2nd person singular.
I now realise that my earlier post was wrong, The verb is the informal imperative.
Wrong again. The informal imperative is rimani!, the formal is rimanga!. This is actually the subjunctive because you don't command someone in formal speech.
One likely speaker of this is a police officer. They are expected to use formal speech with members of the public - even the bad guys - as fans of Montalbano know well. Better to learn this than reach for your phrasebook when you have a gun trained on you :-)
“Rimanga dov‘é“ (formal you) =
“stay where you are“ =
“Rimani dove sei“ (informal you)
I believe.
Sure it does -- "Are you standing near the giant kumquat sculpture? Excellent, remain where it is!" Doesn't sound very natural, but perfectly correct...
I think it could, but it's hard to think of a situation where you'd actually say that.
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Suppose a robot was coming towards you, it breaks down, you don't want to deal with "it" anymore, "Rimanga dov'è" (be polite, it may move again.)
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In reply to tmac876 (above): not according to DL as that is what I tried and was marked wrong! (And I agree it doesn't make much sense but it was all I could come up with in the last 5 seconds!)
Why not "It stays where it is!" ? This would be an imperative statement telling someone not to move an object.
I've read all the comments below but I still don't understand why it uses rimanga rather than rimanete. Help pl.
See the conjugation of rimanere given by wordreference: http://www.wordreference.com/conj/ITverbs.aspx?v=rimanere.
Rimanga can be either the congiuntivo presente singular (all persons) or the imperativo presente (3rd person singular or Lei); note it is an irregular imperative. The sentence ends with an exclamation point, so imperative tense, plus congiuntivo on its own would not make sense. Then logically, imperatives are used usually with 2nd person, singular or plural, and with 1st person plural ("Let us..." is imperative). So to me the translation is: (Lei) Rimanga dove (Lei) è, or (You) stay where you are!
It is not polite as in "Please, with sugar on top," but polite in the sense of showing respect to the person addressed, who is not familiar to the speaker, is older, or has a higher (social, business, etc.) status. Lei is just the equivalent of saying "Sir" or "Ma'am" without actually saying it.
Very long (and informative, thank you!) discussion about the Italian sentence. Anybody else out there take exception to the "acceptable" translation that showed up on my screen "Stay where you're!"?? In case anyone is wondering, that is NOT acceptable English, at all! (Yes, I did report it)
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Definitely Wendy! The "acceptable" translation is NOT acceptable! I've never heard or seen anyone say or write that...
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the answer is wrong you would never 'stay where you're' but 'stay where you are'
I'm OK with the 'stay' for 'rimanga', but why couldn't it be 'stay where he is' (or where she is)?
That's a formal imperative followed by an informal verb. See first thread. Learn the correct version in case somebody shouts it at you one day.
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Have you noticed that the spoken voice for this example raises the tone as one does for a question. Let's forgive DL if this is an oversight on its part, dov'è would generally fit into a question rather than a imperative.
