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- "Rimanga dov'è!"
55 Comments
1091
Is this using the formal register? Or is there some other reason why "è" means "you" here?
Because we have had no enlightenment from an Italian expert, let me try this again: The formal second person singular Lei (You, sir/You, ma'am) uses the third person singular verb form. The grammar of the translation is okay on that score; it is correct..
BUT, this is NOT a "polite" utterance, so I don't understand why DL wants us to detect the formal usage (The only thing I can imagine is a warning to the Pope or the President not to move because of danger--it's possible, I suppose).
Another alternative is that this is the third person present of the so-called "imperative" (a relic of Latin hortative mood) that is often translated as "Let him/it stay where he/it is," or, maybe better, "Leave it alone!" If this is right, the given "translation" is simply wrongheaded (also possible, I'm sure).
In any case, we have had, I hope, a "learning experience." Come dovvrebbe essere.
1859
In general the rule of thumb for conjugating imperative verbs in the singular is as follows: verbs ending "are" have an "a" at the end (e.g. parla = speak) while verbs ending "ere" or "ire" have an "i" at the end e.g. prendi = take);
Or put differently: verbs ending "are" take on the Lei/La form of the present simple; while verbs ending in "ere"/"ire" keep the tu form of the present simple
In the plural the imperative are conjugated in the same why as in the present simple.
I hope that helps
I am by no means an expert so I can address only a part of your comment.
Note that formal you (Lei ) is the 3rd person singular not the 2nd person singular.
http://www.cyberitalian.com/en/html/gra_prpr.html (subject pronouns)
Responding to dnovinc comment (There's no reply option next to his post). Hi dnovinc, I don't agree with the website you quote (http://www.cyberitalian.com/en/html/gra_prpr.html). "Lei" the formal "you" may take the 3rd person conjugation, but it is the 2nd person singular. "I" (myself, me) is the 1st person, "you" both formal and informal (Lei and tu) is the 2nd person, and "he" "she" and "it" is the 3rd person. The person(s) who wrote the website are confused, probably by the way the verbs are conjugated. The conjugation is irrelevant, "you" in whatever way it's expressed is 2nd person.
Whoa! Both of you guys, dnovinc and gordon_gregory, should look at that website again. Lei is listed as 3rd person, because it uses a 3rd person verb, but it is defined in the next column as formal "You." It's correct.
And thanks, by the way, to dnovinc for the link; it gives a quick survey of some grammatical points that may save us all some discussion time. And also thanks to gordon_gregory for being willing to challenge information given on the web; it always deserves scrutiny.
@gordon_gregory I don't think the people who wrote that page are confused. Here is a bit more reliable source:
- (b) di terza persona: sing. Lei, Le; pl. Loro; (source: Italian encyclopedia: http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/pronomi-allocutivi_%28Enciclopedia_dell%27Italiano%29/)
394
Rimanere is an irregular verb in the imperative. The 3rd person singular informal is 'rimani' and the 3rd person singular formal is 'rimanga' Informal would be 'Rimani dove sei' and formal would be 'Rimanga dov'è.
Wrong again. The informal imperative is rimani!, the formal is rimanga!. This is actually the subjunctive because you don't command someone in formal speech.
One likely speaker of this is a police officer. They are expected to use formal speech with members of the public - even the bad guys - as fans of Montalbano know well. Better to learn this than reach for your phrasebook when you have a gun trained on you :-)
2
Sure it does -- "Are you standing near the giant kumquat sculpture? Excellent, remain where it is!" Doesn't sound very natural, but perfectly correct...
1009
Suppose a robot was coming towards you, it breaks down, you don't want to deal with "it" anymore, "Rimanga dov'è" (be polite, it may move again.)
1454
Why not "It stays where it is!" ? This would be an imperative statement telling someone not to move an object.
See the conjugation of rimanere given by wordreference: http://www.wordreference.com/conj/ITverbs.aspx?v=rimanere.
Rimanga can be either the congiuntivo presente singular (all persons) or the imperativo presente (3rd person singular or Lei); note it is an irregular imperative. The sentence ends with an exclamation point, so imperative tense, plus congiuntivo on its own would not make sense. Then logically, imperatives are used usually with 2nd person, singular or plural, and with 1st person plural ("Let us..." is imperative). So to me the translation is: (Lei) Rimanga dove (Lei) è, or (You) stay where you are!
It is not polite as in "Please, with sugar on top," but polite in the sense of showing respect to the person addressed, who is not familiar to the speaker, is older, or has a higher (social, business, etc.) status. Lei is just the equivalent of saying "Sir" or "Ma'am" without actually saying it.
866
Definitely Wendy! The "acceptable" translation is NOT acceptable! I've never heard or seen anyone say or write that...
The imperative (l'imperativo) is used to give orders, advice, and exhortations.
Examples: Spiegaci!, = Explain to us!, Girati! = Turn around!, Non tormentarmi = Don't torment me!, Sbrigati = Hurry up!
imperativo presente (rimanére)
rimàni (non rimanére) tu
rimànga egli
rimaniàmo noi
rimanéte voi
rimàngano essi