"Léann sí na nuachtáin dheacra."

Translation:She reads the difficult newspapers.

4 years ago

22 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/ValaCZE
ValaCZE
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Why is here lenition in deacra? Few sentences before there was same sentence but without lenition. And the translation was same. So where is the difference?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

It's because it's a weak ending plural that ends with a slender consonant.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/haremnights

It doesn't make sense because ValaCZE is right. This exact translation was just a few problems back and difficult was deacra. Everything else was the same except that word. I write them down so I can study off line so I know the words, except for the one for difficult is exactly the same.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lancet
Lancet
Mod
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Thanks for highlighting this - Léann sí na nuachtáin deacra must be what we call a "ghost sentence", meaning that it is a typo we have deleted but which is still showing up in the course. The correct form is Léann sí na nuachtáin dheacra. We will report the bug.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/haremnights

Thanks for the answer :).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MauriceReeves
MauriceReeves
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So is it acceptable with or without lenition?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

No. I should have lenition.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MaryLea11
MaryLea11
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My ear must be off, but it sounded like she said 'léim sí...' Which is obviously incorrect, so I answered it accurately, but... hm.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DanielNieciecki

Does not the DeNTaLS rule apply here? The juxtaposition of the "n" in "nuachtan" should cancel out the lenition of "deacra."

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ballygawley
Ballygawley
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In another discussion thread to this same sentence scilling (I think, unless I totally remember wrong) voiced the opinion, that dental dots don't apply to attributive adjectives. I reported this discussion with the request for a possible clarification in the tips and notes section of "lenition" (provided it doesn't make the whole topic utterly complicated).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Saerbhreathach

yes please clarify this - does it not apply?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PatHargan
PatHargan
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Please would someone explain this rule, or give me a relevant link.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DanielNieciecki

Sure thing. First, you should understand that lenition exists in Irish because its the leftover of an earlier form of the language. When a consonant followed a vowel, it became natural for speakers to pronounce that consonant more loosely and casually than otherwise and that's where lenition - replacing a stop with a spirant - originated. The first consonant of a word in Modern Irish is lenited usually when the word immediately before it ended in a vowel (now often lost) in older forms of the language.

Losing those final vowel sounds brought consonants together that previously were separated. When last consonant of the first word and the first consonant of the second come from basically the same point of articulation in the mouth - in this case, around the teeth - the similarity between them interferes with the wider process of lenition and cancels it out.

So, in situations where consonants would otherwise be lenited, the consonants D, T, and S are NOT lenited after D, N, T, L, or S.

Because "nuachtain" ends in N, the D of "deacra" should not be lenited.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/IuileanMGabhann

Most of what you said is correct, except the dots-dentals rule applies only in certain cases, and postposited adjectives is not one of them, so “dheacra” is the correct form here.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL

All adjectives in Irish are "postposited".

Predicative adjectives are not modified, so you have Tá an nuachtán deacair - "the newspaper is difficult" and Tá na nuachtáin deacair - "the newspapers are difficult".

Attributive adjectives agree with their nouns in case, number and gender. Nuachtán is masculine, so lenition doesn't arise in the singular: Tá an nuachtán deacair ar an mbord - "the difficult newspaper is on the table".

But the plural nuachtáin ends in a slender consonant, which lenites the plural adjective:
Tá na nuachtáin dheacra ar an mbord - "the difficult newspapers are on the table"

The DNTLS-DTS rule does not apply for attributive adjectives, so the plural adjective remains dheacra even though nuachtáin ends in n.

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/moloughl
moloughl
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The first consonant of a word in Modern Irish is lenited usually when the word immediately before it ended in a vowel (now often lost) in older forms of the language.

I grew up saying ana-dheas but now one has to say an-deas.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mikeinkerry

Travelling across the various Gaeltacht districts I find town-by-town variations, and people who insist that they have the "correct" pronunciation and grammar. The same applies in other countries where dialects vary subtly or enormously. If the language has a widely-agreed, standard, spoken and/or grammatical version, then being pedantic about these rules is fair enough. English isn't standardised totally. I doubt that Irish has an agreed 'standard' for the oral or written form. The rules are a helpful guide for me, but not carved in stone.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PatHargan
PatHargan
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Thanks, Daniel, that's very helpful.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PeterKernohan

Why is "she reads the hard news not correct?

6 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/moloughl
moloughl
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Because nuacht is "news" and nuachtáin are "newspapers".

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL

The fact that "hard news" is usually the opposite of "soft news", whereas nuacht dheacair is the opposite of "easy news" might be a factor too.

The NEID actually has an entry for "hard news", and suggests nuacht théagartha or nuacht dháiríre.

téagartha can mean "substantial" or "comfortable", but "substantial" is the intended meaning in this phrase.

dáiríre means "serious"

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TheAlbinoRaven
TheAlbinoRaven
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The expression "difficult newspapers" is nonsensical... There has been an entire string of nonsense sentences from which to learn in this section, and I'm really having a difficult time learning from them... Would it be possible to have less literal, more usable translations to English, please? I have to ask, does this sentence make sense in Irish?

3 days ago
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