"Tá an cat os comhair an fhir."

Translation:The cat is in front of the man.

4 years ago

51 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Cait48
Cait48
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Seeing those two words in juxtaposition sent me to my dictionary for kitty-corner, (Other versions: catty-corner or cater-corner, which I've never heard), my idiolect's word for diagonally opposite (schräg gegenüber i nGearmáinis). I found nothing. Is there a way in Irish to express that spatial relationship?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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Yes: “cater-corner to/from X” is fiarthrasna ó X. Interestingly enough, the “cater” in “cater-corner” is cognate to Old Irish cittach (“left-handed”, “awkward”).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cait48
Cait48
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Go raibh maith agat. "Cittach" and "ciotach"/"ciotóg" sound much more like "kitty-corner" than "cater-corner," don't they?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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Certainly citt- and ciot- sound more like “kit-” than “cat-” does, but “cater” was a verb (meaning “to cut diagonally” — unrelated to modern “catering”) that goes back at least to Elizabethan times.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cait48
Cait48
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No, no, I understand that the Irish and the English words have distinct origins. I just think it's odd/cool that the words are somewhat similar.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nate_J
Nate_J
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We say cattycorner here, that's really interesting

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Rewjeo
Rewjeo
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How does this compare with "Tá an cat roimh an fear" meaning-wise?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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One of the meanings of roimh is “in front of”, so they could have (but wouldn’t necessarily have) the same meaning.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Fe2h2o
Fe2h2o
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Hearing her say "an fhir" in this lesson reminded me...

Are there many words, where when they are lenited (or I guess, eclipsed), they sound the same? It's ok when you can see the word written, but if you're just basing it on what you can hear... I can just see scope for potential misunderstandings!

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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The eclipsis sounds are distinct from each other, so if there’s any aural confusion to be found, it’d come from lenition. After browsing for nouns for a few minutes in my pocket dictionary, I found sean (“ancestor”) and teann (“strength”), for which their respective lenited forms shean and theann could be homophones.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Fe2h2o
Fe2h2o
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So, possible, but probably not too commonly—and context should be sufficient... Go raibh maith agat:-)

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/EavanM

Would this be true for all dialects? Curious because I've been hearing words that end double-n, like peann, with an "ow" sound (like "ouch").

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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No, that particular example would not hold everywhere — as you’d noted, the “ow” sound of peann can be heard in Munster dialects.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johnnyblade23
johnnyblade23
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Me too

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/danoconnell55
danoconnell55
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I'm a bit confused, why is man "fhir". I thought genitive was only applicable in possessive cases.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
balbhan
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The genitive case really means "of X". Like French, Spanish, and nearly every other non-Germanic language, Irish expresses possession as "cat of my son", rather than "my son's cat" - cat mo mhic, le chat de mon fils, el gato de mi hijo etc. It's the same here, with "in front of the man". Possession only works like in English with pronouns.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cinzia47
Cinzia47
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I can't understand the rules for the genitive in Irish. Why, when the sentence was - the library's money - was the plural "na" used but not in this case for " the man"? Is there a rule that someone could explain, please?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cait48
Cait48
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Getting a real grammar book is key to surviving Duolingo! Here's the short version of how to say 'the':

Nom/Acc Case: an for singular, na for plural

Genitive Case: an for masculine singular, na for feminine singular, na for plural

Here's a link that may be helpful: http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/artikel.htm Look at only the first two yellow boxes. It'll take you a bit to figure out their system, but the site is quite reliable.

Have fun learning Irish!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cinzia47
Cinzia47
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Thank you Cait48

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/gwyddnoschdy

The translation I got was: The cat is opposite the man. In the U.S. (an appreciable market for Irish, I'd imagine) we would never say that. We'd say: The cat is across from the man.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kmradley
kmradley
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Oh dear, I'm having some similar confusion as well. You can say "opposite", though: To say that "the cat is opposite the man" is different than "the cat is in front of the man". Opposite: picture a bunch of people and an animals in group therapy sitting in a circle. "The cat is opposite the man" would mean that directly across the circle, a cat is sitting on a chair facing the man. "The cat is across from the man" makes perfect sense here, but it is implied that they are facing one another. Like buildings that are opposite one another on the street and so forth. "The cat is in front of the man" could mean that the cat is sleeping on the floor in front of him, stretching, lapping up milk, meowing. But it's also true in the group-therapy circle. The cat is in front of him, but also opposite him. Is this nuance the same in Irish, or is it simply better translated "in front of" and we should report that "opposite" is wrong?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/EavanM

I am American and I would say "The cat is opposite the man." Gee, maybe I got this from reading UK lit. In any case, like kmradley, I'm not sure how else you would express opposite-ness. What about "opposite from the man?" Does that sound better?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
balbhan
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I'd go with "the cat is in front of the man". You can also say the school's in front of the restaurant, as well as opposite it.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/soupandbread

In 'Ulster English' you'd hear the word 'fornenst' to mean opposite/in front of. 'The cat is fornenst the man'. Is this word used anywhere else?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OliverCasserley

I never knew how to spell it before now and I have not heard it in years.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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The OED has its headword as “fornent”, but includes “fornenst” as an alternate spelling; it came from “fore” + “anent”. It notes the word as being used in Scotland and northern England.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nate_J
Nate_J
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"Tá an cat roimh an bhfear" would mean pretty much the same thing, right?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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It could. (Roimh has more than one meaning.)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/exeisen
exeisen
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So "THERE IS a cat opposite the man" doesn't work?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ballygawley
Ballygawley
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No, because it is "an cat" which is "THE cat".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ZanninaMargariti

Roimh and is comhair difference????

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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Roimh can mean “before” in either its spatial meaning (e.g. “in front of”) or its temporal meaning (e.g. “earlier than”), and its noun phrase is dative; os comhair can mean “in front of” or “opposite”, and its noun phrase is genitive.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lethe-DFD

Why is "The cat is opposite of the man" incorrect?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL

It's not a grammatically correct sentence in English.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lethe-DFD

I am a native English speaker. I would never say "opposite" without "to," "of," or "from." You could be right, but why?

Edit: I forgot to type "is" in my comment here because I'm stupid, I don't know, but my answer definitely had it and I was marked wrong. I edited my question post.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL

"Opposite", meaning "across from" or "facing" is already a preposition - it doesn't need any additional preposition to work.

The two examples of "opposite" as a preposition listed in dictionary.com are: The guest of honor sat opposite me at the banquet
He has played opposite many leading ladies.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lethe-DFD

But saying "opposite of/from/to" is also correct.
"The guest of honor say opposite from me at the banquet." That is still an accurate sentence.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL

"of", "from" and "to" are redundant when used with the preposition "opposite". That's not to say that people don't use them, but they aren't necessary. You would use "of" when "opposite" is used as an adjective (he sat on the opposite side of the table) but we're talking about the prepositional use in this exercise.

The guest of honour sat across from me at the banquet.
The guest of honour sat facing me at the banquet.
The guest of honour sat opposite me at the banquet.

Going back to dictionaries, the oxforddictionaryies.com website has many more examples of "opposite" when used as a proposition:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/opposite
preposition
1) In a position on the other side of a specific area from; facing.
‘they sat opposite one another’
"they sat opposite one another"
"Tape the left side collar piece over the reversed pattern, positioning it opposite the previous collar half."
"During the past couple of weeks work has begun on the dangerous stretch of road on the north side of town opposite the Post Office."
"We were then asked to perform, so we took our positions in the large, empty area opposite the table."
"So I reached the area just opposite the basketball courts for Roebuck High School now called Louis Lynch secondary."
"The new crossing will be positioned opposite the recently constructed paved area at the top of Finkle Street giving more room for pedestrians waiting to cross the road."
"The most typical manifestations include sudden weakness of the face, arm, or leg, and altered sensation or numbness, on the side of the body opposite the stroke."
"He painted them with big brushes, on giant canvases, working in high positions opposite the peaks he captures."
"He was awake, and leaning over the side of his bed, opposite the side I was sitting on."
"Cricklade parents are unhappy with plans to build sheltered flats on a green space and play area opposite the town's junior school."
"It will be moved to a position almost directly opposite the present one, but it will be much better and safer."
"North is classically defined as the cardinal point opposite the sun's position at noon."
"Down a side street, opposite the bus stop a shouting man is sitting on a square of wood, bouncing up and down in an unsuccessful attempt to snap it."
"When Paul Cook was in hospital he was sitting opposite a biker who had been involved in an accident."
"The new play area located opposite the Town Hall was open to the public on Saturday afternoon."
"On the other side, the one opposite the entrance gate, the bulk of the home supporters gather."
"She sits down opposite the side of the table that he sat down at."
"Marvin was sitting opposite me on the other side of the fire."
"The garden area was beautifully presented as was the small landscaped area opposite the school."
"But the area opposite the rail station exit is only the tip of the iceberg."
"He ended up being in exactly the same position as the man opposite him."

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DanielPere25094

The cat is across from the man is correct in english??? What the hell is that? The exercise told me it is rhe right answer...

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Vee87992
Vee87992
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This one and needing to write how it ran around the restaurant tripped me up so much, its put my in a terribly fowl mood now

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/oden246
oden246
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Where is the speaker from?

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dandelionmagic
dandelionmagic
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It sounded to me like the speaker said "leat" not "an fhir", i replayed it many times, knowing that couldn't be it but i couldn't figure it out, is this one of those ones where the audio is off or am i just really far off on how "an fhir" should sound?

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL

It's an fhir. While the slender r can be difficult to characterize, because it's not a sound that is used in English, the n in an is pretty clear, an the i in fhir does sound like the ea in leat at all.

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/John787925

Why is it still "an fhir" in this case and not "na"?

7 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cait48
Cait48
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'Os comhair' is a compound (multi-word) preposition, and you have to use the genitive case after compound prepositions. 'Na fir' is nominative plural; 'an fhir' is genitive singular. You can look nouns up in the grammar section of teanglann.ie to see their declension: https://www.teanglann.ie/ga/gram/fear I hope that helps.

7 months ago
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