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- "Io non l'ho mai conosciuto."
77 Comments
In the present, conoscere can mean either "to know someone" or "to meet someone" BUT in the past tense the meanings are not so flexible. If you use "io ho conosciuto" it means "i met someone". This tense is a particular moment in time and can't be translated as "i knew someone." To say "i knew someone" is implying that you knew them over a period of time. I order to say "i knew someone", you would use a different past tense of the verb. "io conoscevo".
http://italingua.ning.com/profiles/blogs/so-ho-saputo-sapevo-che-confusione
(this page also has sapere, which is similar, but if you scroll down it talks about conoscere)
I HAVE never known him IS a correct response... I am just trying to figure why I have never known IT is not... anybody?
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I THINK that "it" is wrong because conoscere can only be used to know a person. To know a fact ("it") is "sapere". I think. I put "it" too!
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I do not think so. Sapere means "to posses an information" while conosciere means "to be familiar with". The same concept (two different words for to know) is used in many other languages including my native. For example, I can know (conosciere) the rules of a game, which allows me to know (sapere) why the referee blows the whistle.
That is incorrect. The verb "conoscere" can also be used with things.
Reference: https://www.wordreference.com/iten/conoscere
Right, but the "Passato Proximo" tense, studied in this lesson, may be translated to either of them, depending on context.
IMHO it is correct. The Present Perfect is usually used in this sentence because it is implied that the fact of "not knowing" persist until today. However, in some cases, the period of "having the possibility of knowing him, but not doing it" is completely in the past (for instance, if he is dead). In such a case, the Simple Past would be used.
In English word "never" is an indicator to use Present Perfect (i have never known). You can't use Past Simple (I knew) because, like deyazuba said, it's a different tense and you are using it in different situations.
That is not completely true. In some situations, you can (and must) use the Simple Past with "never". For instance, to indicate that something was not usual in a past period of time. That usage of the Simple Past in English would translate to the "Imperfetto" tense in Italian.
Example: A century ago, polite people never spoke of such things. (= Un secolo fa, le persone educate non parlavano mai di queste cose)
Even in the sentence of this Duolingo exercise, it is possible to use either Present Perfect or Simple Past. It depends on the context.
This would actually be the imperfect tense, which is something we'll get to later on. I only know of this because I am studying spanish as well. Anyway, this cannot be "i never knew him" for that is a completely different tense that is not found in english.
s.t.ruggling this is the worst topic ever, and i thought clitics were hard... only 9 lessons to go!
If you're still around, I would love a pep talk from you saying that it all came together and "clicked" LOL as I'm trying hard not to throw a tantrum :(-
So how do you distinguish "l'ho" (with a masculine object - him/it) and "l'ho" (with a feminine object - her/it) in this sentence? I see others have floundered on this rock before me! Help a newbie, please!
just check the end of the participle form ;) io non L(O) ho mai conosciutO - when masculine io non L(A) ho mai conosciutA - when feminine
I think that's only when the verb that precedes it is "essere". For "avere" it is always "o"
no. when it's with essere it gets A/O/I/E considering the gender and number of the subject. but when you use avere (so the sentence has an object), you use A/O/I/E for the gender and number of the object.
http://italian.about.com/od/verbs/a/italian-verbs-past-participle-direct-object-agreement.htm
Is "I have never known him" really wrong? (for "non l'ho mai conosciuto")... Ta.
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I'd like to know about this too. I thought that conoscere primarily means 'to know', while 'to meet' is incontrare.
conoscere is to know a thing in the sense of having bumped into it.
riconscere is to recognize something - to bump into it again.
But whether "I have never known him" is a fair translation, absent all context, is moot.
"I never knew him" is correct but marked wrong, while "I never known him" is correct? Duolingo needs an English speaking person to do some grammar checks on its English answers.
Mariaelena...the correct English is 'hear hear'...meaning "I hear you and like it
I gave the same answer, was marked wrong, and was corrected with "I never known him", which is not correct English, as "known" must have an auxillary verb. I am going to report on this. 7/5/14.
I've been stuck on this for months! I actually stopped learning for ages and had to relearn a ton of lessons because this frustrated me so much!
I agree with Graziosa - there is definitely an error in the English here. Very poor.
From what dumtruck51 wrote : conoscere can mean either "to know someone" or "to meet someone"... so, it has to be "her" or "him" and not "it"...
No this is not correct. The Oxford Italian dictionary says that the object of conoscere can be a person, object, place etc. The Zingarelli dictionary is even more expansive saying it means acquisire la nozione di ogni aspetto della realtà. In short, 'it' should be accepted.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that that those were the only possibilities. As peter2108 mentions, "conoscere" can include places and objects as well. What I was trying to contrast was something else, which was the past tenses.
Why couldn't it be, "I never experienced it" ? The drop down hints say "conosciuto" could mean "experienced".
I'm having so much trouble with this whole section. I can't seem to get it, and am managing most of the other topics..... Any ideas from others about a reference to go to for assistance??
Thank you very much! I thought the particle didn't change with avere ... Whoops. Does the particle also change according to the gender of the object with essere, and well as changing according to the number of subjects?
the "object" of essere is practically the subject, isn't it? so with a verb with essere it sure changes according to the person. io non sono statO (m)/io non sono statA (f) a Roma.// and yes with the number of objects it changes as well io non LO/LA/LI/LE ho conosciutO/A/I/E
Thank you again. And I got through that level. So very happy now! I think I see what you mean by the object also being the subject of essere ... but is a good rule of thumb that avere verbs change according to the object, verbs with essere change according to the subject? 4 languages - wow! I'm finding one enough of a handful!
i thought i sent the reply, but now i can't see it... so i hope there won't be a duplication. so verbs that work with "essere" are the verbs that express moving or existing. so they don't have an object. and those verbs that have an object use "avere". so "essere" verbs like essere, vivere, andare.... etc change according to the subject. all the other verbs change accordig to the object.
Got it - I think! Thank you once more. Another general question - for anyone really - why can't I identify myself as British rather than American on this site? Not that I would have anything against being American, if I was! Maybe a question for the Duolingo team, rather than the users, though if anyone knows the answer...
I was wondering the same thing. English defaults straight to American. I'm Australian!
Same question... but from a Canadian (hoping to be CANADIAN, no offence to American/British/Australian folk!)
I think it is the 'mai' that indicates 'never'. But it seems you use both mai and non in the sentence containing 'never', unlike in English
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Yup, the 'non ... mai' construction means never. 'Mai' can also be used by itself meaning 'ever', for example, "L'ho mai visto?" - "Have you ever seen it?"
Because it would be conosciutA with an a for feminine. Here it is conosciutO for masculine.
Anyway," I never known him" is not English usage. But what's the point of discussing it, if it doesn't get fixed.
From first report, can take up to 4 months, or so I hear. They get a LOT of suggested changes, and (hopefully) check all those suggestions before they make corrections. Some of the longer discussion topics seem to end with a rash of "yay! finally!" - and those I have seen seem to span about a 4 month mark as well.
If 'passato possimo' can be referred to 'simple past' and 'present perfect'. So - I did not know him.- can be a correct answer?
I believe “I have never known it” is correct. Google produced this sentence by a native Italian: “L’amore, non l’ho mai conosciuto.” This would never be translated as “Love, I have never known him” unless you were making fun of the Italian accent in English.
The English responses to some of these questions are not standard English. Two-part English verbs should not be split. Their answer "have never met" should be "never have met". DL doesn't accept the standard form.
"never" is usually placed right before the main verb if it is not "to be" or right after the main verb otherwise.
I said "her" instead of "him" and got it wrong. So, how can you tell whether it's a girl or boy?
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Exactly. In one sentence l' before ho refers to her and in one to him. Make your mind up Duo!
