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"Non mettere il vino nuovo nelle vecchie bottiglie!"

Translation:Do not put the new wine in the old bottles!

June 13, 2013

45 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CreyB

No, this is an imperative form (a command). When using the imperative in the second person singular, negatives use the infinitive form of the verb. This indicates that the command is directed at a single individual.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thenino85

Which begs the question, why is Duolingo throwing imperatives at us now? There's been one or two in past lessons, but now they seem keen on throwing multiple examples at us even though there is a future imperatives lesson that has this one as a requirement!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pont

It raises rather than begs the question, but I assume they're throwing the informal second person singular negative imperative at us because it happens to be the same as the infinitive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeanG6

Why not throw imperatives at us now? It's one of the uses of the Infinitive. I happen to be enjoying this section, actually. It's nice to have a relatively easy one after having just done several hard ones.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gabb318_PHL

It's a helpful way of learning. Know that the best way to learn is to make mistakes. Stop whining like what everybody else always do.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silkwarrior

On a cultural point, whoever wrote this phrase has never been to one of Italy's glories, the local cantina, where you very definitely turn up with an old bottle/jerry can or whatever and get it filled to your heart's content.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chevy1959

It's reffering to Mark 2:22. You'd have to read even before the verse.

Jesus came to the earth to bring in a whole new order, where the grace of God, operating through faith, would be the main motivating principle, instead of the obedience of the Law, given my Moses, motivated by fear of punishment. Jesus' enemies could not understand this, so they criticized Him and His disciples for not doing things the old and accepted way of the Law. The new bottles foreshadows the New Covenant; and the new wine forshadows the gift of the Holy Spirit, which was to fill those who believed in him, after he died for our sins and rose again from the dead.  Therefore, this phrase said by Jesus, "Do not put new wine into old bottles, or else the new wine will burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be ruined," meaning the Gospel that will only fill with rage and fury to those under the Old Testament (Pact), and will despise it and let it go.

So it's more than just an idiom, but a spiritual teaching. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lesliewilman

It was also a teaching based on common experience when the bottles concerned were made of leather not glass, and would split under pressure of fermentation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

Wow! Didn't know that. Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JesseKuipe1

In Dutch Bibles it says "zakken", which means "bags". Weird...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobBlaney

Take a look at what lesliewilman said above and "bags" makes more sense. ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/c.s.k

Different versions of the Bible say "bottles" or "wineskins"(otri). Since almost 88% of Italians are Roman Catholic, "bottles" best fits the Italian culture.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HilleSuuma

I noticed that already and i have read this before, but still - i just got it now. It is the problem of the majority of conservative church as well, not only regarding old testament. Thanx


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesLessels

Yes but there is nothing wrong with keeping old wine in old bottles. Some people prefer old wine!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cathe882331

Yes and i am grateful to those who preserved it so i can drink it today.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WolfgangMakoto

As you "just got it now" you obviously have not the knowledge to judge the problem of which churches this is, if even this parable can be applied to the divisions within Christianity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carli1195

Praise be to Jesus for the local cantina!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mdsawyermd

Are these equivalent: il nuovo vino = il vino nuovo? le vecchie bottiglie = le bottiglie vecchie?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carli1195

like in french i think certain adjectives, particularly of size or age, go before rather than after the noun, but ive never established whether it's actually grammatically wrong to go against the common usage.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duolessio

We generally prefer to put adjectives after nouns. When they are before they make the sentence sound poetic, so put them after the noun and you'll be 90% right. There are some exceptions but I think it's more about the construction than the adjective itself. For example, when possessives are used, the adjective will come before the noun. Sometimes the position of the adjective will change its meaning, as in "amico vecchio" vs "vecchio amico": they both mean "old friend", but the first one is old for his age while the second has been friends with you for a long time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesLessels

Interesting. In English, putting the adjective after the noun sounds ancient and poetical


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andrewduo

This feels like an idiom or a proverb to me. Does it have any meaning other than the literal one?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andrewduo

Good spot - thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PattyinRoma

My Italian husband replies: Yes! "Non si mette vino nuovo in otri vecchi". It has a bit of Latin and is and is an old saying, which means don't mix thing are not the same or don't belong together.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeandroSab4

Gooda! Now, i understood. Do not mix. Otherwise, it can be recycle.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeanG6

It's included in the Idioms section of the Spanish course. I wouldn't be surprised if it's included in the Italian Idioms section as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silkwarrior

Any particular reason why "vecchie" is placed before "bottiglie"? And would it be wrong if it were placed after?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carli1195

some adjectives, particularly of size and time, are exceptional and go before the noun, not sure if it's a strict grammar rule or just common usage


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lloydo3000

Possibly for emphAsis?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abshirdi

I translated: - "not to put .." - DO NOT PUT is negative imperative, 2nd person (sing. or pl.), and could be NON METTI or NON METTETE, in italian, as I have learned till now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/f.formica
Mod
  • 2606

It could not. In Italian the negative imperative for the "tu" person always uses the infinitive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abshirdi

Thank you very much for the explanation, f.formica!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/moreno174

But this is a proverb: 'non mettere il vino nuovo nella botte vecchia', and is in the Vangelo, maybe not the same sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cathe882331

Just like "You can't teach old dogs new tricks."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eylon.saadon

there is only one verb here ant in the infinitive, isn't this sentence missing?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LarsX

N + adj...adj + N. Both are adjectives relating to age. I think I was counted wrong previously for saying "bottiglie vecchie.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

Why can't "vecchie" vollow "bottiglie"? I put it after the noun and it was marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TriggerSmooth

Jesus vs recycling


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bent937719

why in and not on?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

"do not pour the new wine in the old bottles" should be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cathe882331

My question is why is 'new' after wine and 'old' before bottles?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey
  • "vecchie bottiglie" - the bottles which were previously used
  • "bottiglie vecchie" - "old bottles" in the terms of age, they may be 100 years old
    same with "nuovo" (it may be "new"(fresh) or "new" for you (you are seeing it for the first time in your life)

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kevin_Italian

Since "nuovo" is one of the adjectives that come before the noun they describe, I think the correct sentence should be, "Non mettere il NUOVO vino nelle vecchie bottiglie!"

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