Hey guys -
We are currently AB testing a feature of setting a daily goal with Coach. You can now create a daily XP goal that you wish to reach each day. This goal is global, and each XP in all language directions will contribute to this goal. Please note that this daily goal is now the threshold for extending your streak. The graph on the Home page indicates how close you are from reaching your goal for the day. When you have met your goal, the circle and streak icon at the top of the graph will be filled in.
You can change your goal at any time by going to Settings > Coach, and picking a new daily goal.
The time that you have left to achieve your daily goal (and extend your streak) is indicated on Home under your streak count.
Thanks for informing us about the daily goal being the minimum that you have to do to extend your streak. I've since changed my coach setting to 1xp.
I don't see the point of this at all. I already see how much I've done on the experience line graph so why add redundancy and at the same time remove the incredibly useful experience bar.
EDIT: th23x has written an excellent userscript to restore the experience bar. If you would like to use it you can find it here (Grease/Tampermonkey required):
I didn't know that it was combined with the streak and I lost my streak :/ Is there any way to get it back?
Write to Support. See the tab to the left in white on this page, and ask them to do it. There is hope that they will do it. Good luck!
I agree. Coach is thoroughly useless (as it is) because I am not about to lose my streak just to note my daily goal on Duolingo. Nope. I have always kept my streak and my daily goal separate and will continue to do so. I will, however, note that my daily goal WAS tied to my XP points; I would see how many points were needed to reach the next level, and set my daily goals accordingly.
This new and 'improved' Duolingo is a total bungle.
Here are my thoughts on this so far:
1.) There oughta be a separate goal for each language you study. Daily goals are awesome, I'm glad it's on the website now. But if a person is studying more than one language, the amount of time they put into each language separately is important.
2.) Why do you guys always remove features alongside adding new things in when testing? Aren't you just creating confounding variables? I don't understand why it was necessary to take out the number of words and level experience.
3.) You should consider letting people have the option to write in their goal as well.
That said, I am extremely excited by this feature and I think mini-goals on the site, like so, will increase activity and retention. HOWEVER, as mentioned, the features that were unnecessarily removed may turn people off of studying. Maybe I don't understand statistics well, but it doesn't seem like the perfect measure to me.
Thanks for the improvement! Two observations, though:
1) The old XP bar and the daily XP by language were really helpful... any chance we get the coach AND the old features? 2) I believe these preset XP goals may not suit everyone's training rhythms... how about the possibility of you choosing your own personal daily goal (like 60XP, 70XP...)?
Please give us back the progress bar. It motivates us more than the coach, for many of us prefer to see how we are going through the levels per language.
I fully agree, I need to take a breaks on weekend. I cannot reach my 50 XP on these two days.
For what it's worth, you can set your goal to 1xp on those days and do one answer on timed lesson, then reset to 50 when you know you'll have time for it. Not the most convenient, to be sure, but would save time getting to 50.
That renders Coach completely useless for most people.
No. They need to untie the daily streak to whatever daily goals one chooses to set.
Please make the Coach optional or at least put it alongside the old features
Coach is basically optional, just set it to 1XP per day and it will act the same as before.
Yes, but because of it the graph shows the combined progress of all languages instead of showing progress of the chosen language as it used to and it's really inconvenient
No the coach is still there and nothing that was taken away has come back. I agree with whoever said it was a bungle.I had a system with the priority of different languages, coach has wiped it out.
Coach is 'basically optional', but it is also completely useless for those of us who keep our streak and our goals separate.
They need to keep daily streak and daily goals separate, so one could continue to keep one's streak, AND be able to set goals with Coach.
The coach setting seems totally pointless. It's not giving us anything new. It makes it harder to extend the streak while removing the progress bar. It's taking away features and adding nothing.
It might have been cool if it let you set a certain number of XP to gain per week or per month. Definitely allow different settings for different languages. With some languages my goal is just to keep the tree gold. Maybe let us set goals and then wager ourself 5 lingots which we win back if we reach our goal after a week.
This method seems so punitive. You set a goal and all you get is greater risk of losing your streak. I don't really understand why this website would put its limited resources towards that rather than something that would improve our learning, to be honest.
I'm not clicking on set a goal because I'm terrified of getting into something that I won't be able to change (like on memrise where they randomly take away your choice and then you get stuck with your last selection for "number of items to learn per session"...).
Exactly. IF THE COACH was used as a motivational tool by giving out site-wide "challenges" and then rewarding players who continued their streaks then it may be better. Why do they penalize you for trying to set ambitious goals by making you lose your streak?
Coach says: earn 50XP for 10 days and you'll be rewarded 50XP or a lingot.
Coach says: earn 100XP for 10 days and you'll be rewarded 100XP or 2 lingots.
etc etc, have the coach dictate a few challenges and have us work towards them.
I, too, like your suggestions.
One's daily streak and one's goals should not be forced together. The system should allow users to keep them separate.
Please make the coach optional and bring back the words learned count and the XP bar.
Thank you so much for posting about this! A big source of complaint lately has been lack of communication from staff. Now, my feedback:
I had happily put a 50 XP "insane" goal up, which I usually hit in a day. Then I realised that it would not continue my streak unless I hit the goal, and since my streak is nearly a year long, it's obviously rather important to me. So my goal is 1 XP a day, and the coach has done nothing for me. To top this off, you've taken away most individuals language stats like the progress bar, the individual graphs (it now lumps all languages into one graph), and number of words learned. Was this really intentional, since I can't honestly see any reasoning behind that. I'm not trying to be nasty, I highly appreciate all the work you guys do!
Our users are extremely unhappy that they cannot see the level progress bar any longer.
And yes, many people lost their streaks as well. In one case that was 170 days.
I lost 70 because of a number glitch where it said my xp for today was way higher than it actually was. :/
I'm certainly not finding my 'reported' xp for the day to match anything I'm aware of. I don't know whether different parts of it are ticking over the 'day' at different times. And I still have the bar and words, but my chart is still combining languages or mixing up yesterday and today's xp.
I lost my streak because I stopped using Duo, and switched to an old-style account. Of course I also "lost" or disregarded all my XP and have to start over all languages ;-)
For several reasons, my kids cannot do Duolingo every day. Therefore, the progress bar is much more motivational for them rather than a coaches streak that there is no way they can maintain.
This sucks. It was also not clearly stated. It made me loose a 104 days despite having been doing it every day and also having bought streak protection at the store.
I also lost all my streaks. Duolingo should have notified us the change more cleary instead of informing it here. Only a few people see this page. I can imagine many angry people saying "Why my streak is at 0?".
Yup, just lost my streak too. What a piss off. The worst part is there was no notification that my streak freeze had been used, so even though I was logged in and doing some lessons I had no idea I wasn't meeting the criteria.
I am asking for them to reinstate them manually to where we were prior to the change. We should all do the same.
How are you asking? I asked at their contact us link and no reply. The EXACT same thign happened to me, they in no way made it clear the new coach goal was used to extend streaks, horrible design choice! I hoep we get our streaks back :(
I've asked them to give me my 73 days back. I'm just writing here because maybe that will help warn people that they may get robbed of their streak because the daily xp that the coach says may be completely different to the actual xp you have earned today.
I, too, would have lost my streak if I hadn't been paying attention.
How awful to do to people without prior notice. I hope they spend a week giving back user's streaks and learn their lesson to better communicate in the future.
Same thing happened to me at 160 days. It resulted in me forgoing Duo for about a week which I secretly have to admit was wonderful. Do you know if anyone has managed to have theirs reinstated?
I love the idea of a daily goal with the Coach feature. However, I am trying to set an individual goal of 20 XP for each language. With the global goal being set, I have to keep track of each individual goal separately, which takes away from the convenience of the feature. Unfortunately, once you've set the daily goal with the Coach feature, there is no way to turn it OFF, it only allows you to change the category. Can you add a feature to Settings > Coach to have NO global daily goal? This will allow me to go back to the original graphs for each language so I can stick to my individual language goals.
Please don't implement this feature. The way I keep up in all my languages is by making sure they are all the same level. If I can't see how many points I have in each language, how can I make sure they are all the same level. I'm usually really for everything Duolingo implements, such as the half a heart or duel feature, but I've never really liked the coach feature. I don't mind it on mobile because I can choose not to use it, but I really don't like being forced to use it.
Please add me to the long list of people that would prefer the progress bar.
If you're dead set on the coach feature, I expect a variety of possible goals & challenges would go over better. Ex: keeping all learned lessons gold; get X answers right in a row; doing X flashcards; verb conjugation challenges, write a paragraph in your 2nd language, etc etc.
So many directions you could go with this, rather than a lamer version of the streak!
What if I don't use the site altogether? The daily goal in the app is also now a threshold for extending the streak?
What I used the site for though, were the stats on XP, my level, words learned... I enjoy tracking my progress. There will be no more stats? Is there any chance the stats will be brought to the app? (As well as ability to report or discuss the question?)
Hi everyone- First, a very sincere thank you for voicing your concerns and suggestions about this feature and how these ab tests appear. We are constantly ab testing updates, and will be making some very important changes to this specific coach feature based on your feedback before it goes to everyone. We are also going to be informing you better of these updates. We absolutely do care about the community- members, mods, contributors- everyone. We are working hard to make sure our future communication is smoother. Thank you for this feedback!
Coach is great and all, but I'm not sure I understand the UX decision to completely replace the number of words I've learned and the level chart to show how close I am to level 14, for example.
Small goals might feel easier to achieve, but if you force people to only focus on small goals, they end up losing sight of larger goals that really matter. Small goals don't offer much reinforcement of long-term behavior, but large goals do.
You should consider a mixed approach where new users can utilize Coach to build the habit, but experienced users with pre-existing habits should be able to focus on their larger goal. We don't need Coach anymore, so it's kind of worthless.
making this mandatory is a real downer. I get that you like to experiment - but this is just REALLY a slap in the face at individuals and how they manage their time and their own personal approach.
I have absolutely NO INTEREST in setting a daily streak level - I tried this coach thing on IOS when it first came out - and I hated it. I don't use the IOS platform at all anymore.
Now you're going to force us to use this daily approach or lose all our tracking information - I don't find this to be at all positive from a user's viewpoint-
After losing a streak, due to the implementation of the Coach, I no longer care if I maintain a streak. Losing a streak is a big disincentive to using the Coach. I try to practice daily anyhow, but the DL streak is no longer motivational. Since then I have de-activated the Coach by setting the daily XP goal back to zero and re-installed the Progress Bar and Word Count through two excellent computer hacks described elsewhere in the forum discussions. If you look for the two hacks in the discussion threads you will find them. The titles of the two discussion topics are "Bring back XP levels." and "How to see the XP toward the next level (SOLVED)". The two hacks were provided by "th23x" and "dynamic_puppy". If you go to the profiles of those two users you can see their comments on how to implement the hacks.
Couldn't there be a way we could have the coach feature And the Xp level bar?
I'm going to join in with the thoughts in the opposite direction. This feature really needs to be per-language. The aggregate coach really makes it difficult for me to be 100% certain that I've exercised each language each day. I'd much rather set individual language goals (higher in languages I'm actively learning, rather than maintaining) and know my daily progress in each.
Proposal: Keep the online Coach, and have it sync with the iOS coach so work done on either platform is reflected on the other. Have several Coach options: global, individual language, and completely off. Bring back the XP bars for each language.
It really distresses me that I can't see how close I am to going up a level, as this was a great source of motivation. I like having the challenge of a daily goal which I have to reach to extend my streak, but this isn't for everyone and, without easily being able to see how much XP I need to level up, Duolingo loses part of the fun game-oriented framework which brought me here in the first place.
Allowing all users to flexibly choose which features to switch on would be the simplest and best solution, making the most amount of people happy.
I think it's really sad that the level progress bar has been sacrificed for the new Coach feature. I feel sort of lost now without it. For me the level progress bar was much more motivating (especially when I was about to level up) than the Coach. Any chance the level progress bar is coming back again?
As a couple of good posts have pointed out, the genius of this site has been to gamify learning. Those who like games, who play games, who become addicted to games--and things game-like--need the score, the knowledge of what level they are on, the adrenalin of measurement. That's why they are here, and indeed why so many become well nigh addicted. Coach is not a game feature, it's a long-distance runner feature. People with that sort of discipline are not going to become addicted to game-like features. And people who might become addicted to game-like features will quite possibly be repelled by that demand for discipline. Duolingo is coming close to shooting itself in the foot, or, worse, somewhere quite higher up on the torso. This is Windows 8 without the entrenched market position that will allow Microsoft to recover.
DL where have you been? And a meek reply at that. Nothing about not being able to turn Coach off, about loosing the progress bar, about the real impact on XP and levels for each language being studied. And yet, another reason not to care about lingots. Are you moving from a gamification model to something else? It seems so.
For over a week people have logged on only to find ''surprise'' changes that permanently alter how the app works. Doesn't anyone from DL monitor your own discussion forum? Adding a new ''feature'' that essentially forces users to login and do something everyday is not user friendly. It feels like you're taking attendance.
Despite all the stats you treasure, you don't seem to understand that people have to be very motivated to stick with learning a language long enough so that they learn enough to translate English language documents into various languages so you can sell the translations and turn a profit. Adding motivators = good idea. Removing motivators = bad idea. Adding ''features'' that are permanent with no warning = very bad idea. Statistics don't tell the whole story. It's been my experience that end users (that's us!) know what they need to do their job better than any software developer.
Again, A/B testing is not an industry standard for making and testing app changes. No experienced software developer would throw unannounced changes into a production app using this methodology. You run the risk of alienating end users (accomplished) and breaking what was previously working (accomplished). It seems that you prefer a wild, wild west approach to app development. It's a costly approach which, if you're not careful, will seriously damage the trust DL users have placed in Duolingo.
I, for one, dislike the coach system. I lost my 61 day streak as a result. Even if you buy a streak freeze, if you do not reach your goal it is used AND you lose your streak! How is that fair?The streak was my motivation to come back every day. Now that is gone and this new system is in place, I lack all drive to come back here and do my Spanish. Big thumbs down Duo. :(
I find this kind of official announcement quite disrespectful : what is the purpose of creating a nth topic on the subject, providing no new information instead of answering the questions already asked in the other ones about what has been removed (xp bars, words count etc...)?
Forgive me if I sound rude, but you act like a blind staff this way.
I appreciate the announcement because it comes from someone in blue which makes it official. I was blindsided when I set my coach for 50XP and completed 1 lesson, got 10XP, but no extension of my streak. Imo, it is good for Duo officially to get this information out there to the Duomasses.
I guess the point is to make it pop out from among all the questions: since you see the post is written by a staff member (blue circle), you know this will actually give you information rather than be just another post asking for information or stating opinions of users.
I support getting the XP level bar back - at least in addition to the daily coach!
Having this program, add a new Custom Script with the following content:
Sorry...can't update the post with the required code - please see my reply for the code to include!
Enjoy your newly "won" XP bar :-)
Sorry, editing code posted here doesn't seem to work properly - I improved the script further to reliably bring up the bar after switching actions and completing lessons as well...please download via the link below, if you're interested:
Thanks for this! The newer version worked for me. If you're using Google Chrome, install this using Tampermonkey instead of Greasemonkey
Thank you for this! Great idea. Can you please dumb this down for me? I have Greasemonkey and I clicked the icon on my toolbar. I clicked new user script. I get a pop up with 5 boxes: Name; Namespace; Description; Includes (One per line) [in this box it already says https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/greasemonkey/]' and Excludes (One per line).
Would you please explain what goes where?
Just create one - no specific needs for these fields, just use some...afterwards open the JS and replace everythign with the code provided
Thank you for trying to improve the site but I prefer the old bar. I am working on more than one language and my daily goals are very different. The other method was very motivating.
I find the Coach feature to be de-motivating. I was always doing enough lessons to get at least 30 XPs a day, but now I reset my Coach to 1 XP to make sure I don't lose my streak if I have an occasional day where I have very little computer time. Until now, I made myself do at least one lesson even if it was difficult to get to a computer (traveling, etc.) to make sure I kept my streak alive. But if I am going to lose my streak anyway, there is no motivation to set my daily goal higher. I am much more motivated by long term progress, going up a level, etc.
The Coach idea is really good. A welcomed innovation. But is is a TERRIBLE idea to make it mandatory, and to completely overshadow the XP progression. Also is a TERRIBLE idea to change the streak system to count only days when you have met your goal. Maybe reducing it to at least a 10 point practice (the minimum in untimed) could keep away the behavior of 1 point timed practices. But definitely the "couched streak" is terrible, maybe just salvageable by making it optional an giving extra lingots for set number of "coached streak" days.
TL.DR.: The mandatory Coach feature is a TERRIBLE idea
My suggestion, make it completely optional. Maybe give some extralingots for keeping a "coach streak". But please don't force it onto us.
Another suggestion, aimed at like-minded individuals, is to 'downvote' the original post of this forum thread. I don't specially like the 'voting' system, but I think this is one of the few occasions where it may be useful to set a hard opinion. So, Vote Down On The Coach Feature :)
The streak counter and progress graph were more than enough to allow users to set and keep daily goals.
Also, it imposes a paradigm that differs starkly from the work habits of many users. For instance, rather than maintaining a constant daily rate, I had developed my own system of "up-cycles" and "rest periods". Put simply: I would make sure to accumulate more points each day than the previous one, until I reached the point of the trend's untenability; then, I would either spend a few days doing the minimum to keep my streak or take a break from Duolingo altogether before starting the next "up-cycle".
Using the workflow to which I am accustomed, there is no place for the coach (as it currently functions). During periods where I am committed to over 1000 points per day, the "insane" level threshold of 50 points is meaningless. During my" rest periods", having to reach a daily quota of any kind other than the 1 point needed to keep my streak is equally valueless and serves only as a petty annoyance.
As for me, I have other projects that demand my attention and other ways to keep practicing my language skills; so I am taking an extended "rest period" in my Duolingo training schedule. I assume that my course of action is not unique among users of this site, and the metrics will reflect that trend. I am confident that, by the time I start working down my Spanish tree again, the electronic auguries will have been read and interpreted with the recommended course of action being to either remove or radically modify the coach feature.
Addendum: I also share the same dismays as have been stated by the avalanche of comments posted before mine (concerning word count, separate progress graphs for each language etc.).
I knew the coach on the mobile app and for me it was a useless feature - i did not take care of it. But knowing it will take away, on the website, the number of words learnt by language and the progress of my XP bar, I really hope this feature won't be brought to everyone ! I haven't it yet, so I cherish my stats (actually wondering if I can note them on a post-it, you know, for the day they will be off).
In today's games, stats are everywhere and players are often interested in them. Duolingo has been made according to a "videogame" model ; so those stats should stay as well as the XP and the hearts. The coach, being a new feature to bring "quests" into Duolingo, can be a good idea for some learners, but it should not replace the stats. It could live alongside.
About bringing a feature from app to website, I think the "challenges" thing (where you play in a limited time against another learner or the computer) would be waaaay more interesting and funny !
Challenges where you play against another player for speed and accuracy? That's brilliant !
Why hasn't Duolingo staff replied to our complaints? This Original post has more complaint filled comments than passive likes. Its main complaint filled comment has OVER 4 TIMES the number of complaints than the original post. PLEASE, either keep coach and give us our old features back or abandon coach for our old features. Coach and language-specific-XP-bars/charts aren't mutually exclusive... and if they are because of a programming error, the MAJORITY of the duolingo community is calling for our old features back.
Staff are aware that this feature is experiencing some issues in this ab test stage. They are currently compiling a list of complaints and feedback people are posting in the forums. This is a priority update and they are working on it. :)
But in the interim, it gives the impression that Staff isn't concerned about this in the slightest.
Look, I'm a software engineer, and even I understand basic customer service. You get complaints, you recognize that they're valid, and you state OPENLY that you are aware of the issues and that you're working on it... and that usually gets your customers off your back enough for you to do what you need to do to fix it.
This is bad customer service, plain and simple. We should have had a response from Staff by now in the open.
Yeah, it is unfair to the volunteer moderators to be put in the position of saying, "trust us, they know and are working on it". It would be so much more effective for a staff member to say, "we realize that there are some bugs in the new coach feature and are working on it... ...if these glitches caused you any problems, please send us a help ticket, and we will get to it as soon as possible".
Though, let me soften a little of what I said (because I'm also realizing that I sound like a petulant child). I do appreciate this site being here, and being free, and I love having the resource with all the work that goes into it.
But c'mon, staff. It takes 2 minutes to jot down a quick "we're listening and we'll respond soon" note. :)
My "trust me" statement was nearly a word for word quote from staff. So, I think something else is at issue here besides communication.
Thats nice to hear but it would be better to it straight from the horses mouth. All tehy ahve to do is make a new sticky, that way, they make it clear to EVERYONE, not just some people who decided to scroll all the way down here. Not everyone will see this and it just causes more grief. I agree tcjinmaryland, terrible customer service
Join the club, my friend. This feature seems to just pick a random number of points that you've earned today and goes with that. Note my newfound one day streak
Happened to me as well... met my daily goal, walked away all smiles... came back next morning to a zero day streak.
Consider me among the newer users who wishes the coach was optional. I appreciate having a daily goal, but having that goal override my ability to track my progress on longer-term goals (i.e., the level) is really demotivating. How about just give us both? Give us a daily goal AND give us our progress bar to the next level.
I didnt see the fact that the coach EXP per day target was the new Threshold for extending your streak!!!! I only foudn this out after I lost my streak, no where was that said when I set my goal for 50 XP each day!!!!!! Something like that should be said as soon as you choose to turn on the coach!!!! Has anyone else lost their streak like this? And DUO, Can I PLEASEEEEEEEEEE have my 37 day streak back, this is really not fair when it was never clearly stated the new threshold for extending your streak is now based on the coach :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((
The coach is fine, but I still have no way of knowing what my total XP are per language. It is extremely frustrating.
Coach is nice, but the language-specific XP bars and word counts need to come back.
The coach feature broke points accounting. This saturday and sunday I gained only 10 points each day but come monday and I see that I already have 47 points. Where does these points come from? I have no idea! Now I also cannot see the progress bar and have to rely on my memory to remember how much points left at this level.
My vote is: NEGATIVE, bring back the old system! Make coach optional.
Not published in our pages. I lost my streak of 104 days, even if I had bought protection, and I kept working every day. Could it be reinstated manually? Thanks.
Well, I feel like I was robbed of my streak, which was over 40 days long. For some reason this has really disappointed me and I have a hard time doing duolingo at all now because it seems pointless if my accomplishments can be erased so easily. I understand that is irrational, since I really am better at reading Spanish than I was, but it still affects my willingness to do lessons each day, which is sad. Please bring back my streak, and my lingots that I would have earned from it. I want to care again!
YES AGREE SO MUCHHHH! THEY DIDNT SAY ANYTHING UP FRONT ABOUT THIS AFFECTING STREAKS! I am exactly like you, I was enjoying that the fact my streak was relfecting how many days I had been very consistent and now its all gone. Its so not fair and the least Duo can do is give up us our streak back! Very bad design taht they did not mention the coahc affetcs streaks!
I was also robbed of my streak, and I am not pleased, as it was not explained that meeting my daily goal would be necessary to maintain my streak. I almost always far exceed my daily goal anyway, but as I was going away for the weekend and did not have much computer time, I could only do one lesson per day for a few days. I reset my coach to just 1 XP per day, meaning to set it back higher when I got back home. But apparently I didn't reset it in time, and I lost my streak.
And still Duo says nothing....The least they could do is give out a statement saying they are looking into lost streaks, or are taking on board the criticisms of the coach, but nothing. Absolutely nothing. Duo's approach to its userbase and lifeblood is baffling.
They must be prepared to jettison all of us and begin again as many times as it takes. I do understand that it's hard to be writing software for an existing user base. And it is free, so it's not like we can demand our money back. =) But I would feel better if it looked like they at least cared. Maybe they have no clue how or why the streaks went away?
There's no way they can't know, people have been complaining for almost a week now and first streak losses reported aroudn this time too, if they don't know, thats bad management of them on their part in keeping in touch with theri community. I definitely agree its hard to code and write software but giving out a statement saying whether they are looking into it, or if its not possible, or if they are invesitgatign etc etc etc doesnt require that much effort, and a good service provider deifnitely is close to its users. Yeah this is free but keeping the userbase in the dark is not good practise and creates a bad atmosphere as seen here, taht deifnitely isnt healthy for duo in the long term. I think you may be more correct in that they dont mind jettisoning the existing users for the sake of just getting greater numbers of new users, this whole coach system screams of being geared to new people. I hope I am wrong though and duo do get back to us and rectify this situation :(
On the plus side, it is an amazing learning tool for absolutely free to be used anywhere for as long as you want...
I can't argue with that, duo has accomplished a lot but if duo ever gets some competition that provides better customer service, or they wreck their own really great learning mechanics (ungamifying it as people have said before), I could deifnitely see people being eager to switch after episodes like this one. I would rather duo just keep on improving though, so our complaints are of help to them
Scroll up because someone from the staff did reply. They are reading all the feedback and will be improving, but if you are looking for something quicker someone else has created a hack to give you your xp bar back. I am lucky, because I used the coach on the mobile android phone already and didn't like it then, so I am glad I didn't have to be one of its testers on the pc.
Don't get discouraged. Your real accomplishments aren't really erased. The streak itself is meaningless. What you've learned in those 40 days is what matters.
Yeah thats really true but it does suck, just feels like it was lost for no reason, I will deifnitely stay on but I hope they give the people who lost their streaks back, the streak ultimately does help to motivate us I feel, in a purely cosmetic way mostly but I dont know, it just works in many peoples minds, I think they wanna keep that number increasing, and when its built up a lot, theres deifnitely taht urge to keep it and stay on the sire. Thank for the encouragement though!
Thanks for the encouragement! I know intellectually that you're right, that the real reason for continuing is what I'm learning, and that's still real, regardless of some numbers shown on my screen. I guess I have trust issues, or something, though. I feel so let down and cheated, and I feel reluctant to invest any more time in a program that's going to treat me that way.
This is an issue in my life, too! I quit my church not long ago because they excommunicated a prominent feminist. So even though there were areas in which I was learning and growing by taking part in that church, the abusive nature of their behavior toward feminists, and really all women, meant I had to quit. Thank goodness duolingo isn't to that point, yet. But it has definitely impacted my motivation and enthusiasm toward continuing.
So if this is a test almost all comments are dejection and despair, when, please sir, will the test be over and can I have another level lbar and word count feature? I did not lose my streak (yet) but only because some kind sir or ma'am let me know my coach goal would blow my streak if not met. Since I believe goals should be high-ish, something to shoot for, I of course tried to opt out of my test coach cycle but found I was -- ACK! -- trapped. Please just tell us when we can put all this behind us and if you can detach coach from the streak I would keep him, but only if the level bar and word counts come back. He is just too sneaky and dangerous otherwise. Seriously.
Why would I need a coach ? I might do 10, 50, 300 or in the shortcut days even 3000 points a day, I get motivated by getting levels and golden owls and seeing my knowledge increasing. I want to keep my level bar rather than setting any goals every day.
I agree, I would also prefer to have my golden progress bar back. It was exciting to feel that extra boost of encouragement surge through you when you see that you are close. Its sad that it is gone. :'(
This might only be a small consolation, but, I can still see my bar at the end of a Timed Practice when I earn at least 1 point. I think it shows up for others with the Coach as well. :)
Bring back the progress bar, please! I really like the coach add-on, but I really, really like the progress bar, too.
Leveling up is a great motivator for me, because I have a touch of competitiveness in me, and I really like to compete with my friends and family about what level they are in comparison to me. The good-natured chaffing, and back-in-forth taunts, really seems to do the job in pushing us to advance ourselves through our respective learning-language.
As well, that little yellow progress bar was a great motivator for me, because if I saw that I was only 50 or 60 or however many experience points away from leveling up, instead of quitting after a few lessons I would keep pushing myself until I heard that beautiful, oh-so beautiful, level-up chime.
So, please, please bring back the progress bar in the side-bar area. I'm sure there is a way to incorporate both features.
Much love and keep up the good work!
Earlier I posted this comment as a new discussion topic. I am reposting it here instead under slight protest in response to a request from a moderator who rightly wanted to reduce confusion and clutter. As I explained to him, one reason I started a separate discussion was because the conversation on the Coach feature line has become so diffuse and frequently off-topic. The more important reason I felt a new discussion was warranted because the Coach discussion didn't necessarily apply to the suppression of other user achievement information.
As those of us dumped into the experimental group in the current Coach feature test are too well aware, Duo had removed our level progress information. For a while after the start of the A/B test the level progress info was available on our Profile Pages. Now that's gone, too. Why, Duo, why?
Okay, granted that the whole business of ersatz awards and faux incentives for doing something we want to do--learn or refresh another language--is pretty silly when a sensible person thinks about it, but somehow progress information can be strangely encouraging for many of us. For instance, I'll confess I find the streak feature to be motivating through its visible confirmation of my constancy in pursuing my goal of increasing my Spanish proficiency. Other people find information about Level rankings or XP totals or Lingots amassed to be important adjuncts to their learning experiences. Why does giving one kind of information have to preclude providing access to any other?
If the aim is to test the utility of the new Coach goal setter why not just add the Coach to people's array of utilities and see how many of us choose to adopt it and how we choose to use it. Leave the rest of the information alone. Making other changes in user interface seems to me to be adding unnecessary variables to the Coach experiment.
Thanks for the information. What happens if we do not want to set a target? Is there a default of 1?
I have seen that, my question was if I do not set a target, will doing a minimum of 1XP still preserve my streak? After the comments by those who have set targets, I am a bit reluctant to do so!
I think it defaults to the original way of 1 XP if you don't set a goal. I know if you do set one you can't unset it (though you can change what it is set to). In theory setting a goal of 1 should function identically to not setting one at all. In theory. In practice, I have no idea. I would still assume so, but I don't know for sure.
So far I haven't activated my coach and I hope to maintain my streak by doing a minimum of one lesson per day. This seems to work as my streak was updated today after doing my lesson. So either the coach is set at default 1XP or else it just continues as before if you don't set a daily goal.
Personally I don't think this new feature will work for me. I prefer to go with the flow. While on some days I feel up to it and can do 100XP there are other days when I just manage 10XP. Keeping the streak going was motivating enough for me.
You can change your target at any time. It's your own personal goal. If your goal is to just do something that day, then just opt for 1 point. If you are feeling ambitious or are feeling really motivated to improve your skills, pick something higher. Therefore, you shouldn't worry about picking a goal.
I travel quite a bit and never saw this and my streak was taken away as I was doing one lesson per day while on business. I also submitted a ticket 9 days ago and still have not heard a word back about getting my streak extended.
The new Coach is of no use to me since it varies from day to day on how much time I can spend. The goal was a good motivator for me but I knew on some days I would not hit it due to travel. I now have my goal set to 10xp since the streak is more important that the goal now as I will never hit the goal on days I travel.
It would be nice in the future to better inform people they are getting tested on and it would also be nice to get my 64 days back that I lost when feature was implemented.
I experienced a problem with the coach feature. My xp counter shows that i have already achieved 11 xp. Yesterday this same happened and at first i thought that i did some lessons in the morning because sometimes i learn in the morning and i just forgot about it. So i reached my xp goal a little over 50.
And today this thing happened again and now i know that i didn't learn today. I almost lost my streak because of this confusion, because at the end of the day the system doesn't count these extra xps which appear out of nowhere. So now i have to pay attention to that. Please fix this bug. It is really confusing.
Anyone experiencing this thing or is it just me?
Me as well.... reached my 37/30 target, but lost my steak anyway..... frustrating
I really like the coach feature, but I had the same problem as Gabriella. I changed the goal to 1xp to eliminate the confusion, but that kinda negates the coach feature.
Please send out a notice to everyone that they need to reach their goal in order to maintain their streak and bring back the streaks of people who lost them due to new rules that come with the coach! thanks :)
Why not just put the goal circle under the progress bar? It's not like, you know, you're limited by space or anything. Why must we choose when we can have both?
"Please note that this daily goal is now the threshold for extending your streak." Why isn't this stated on the Coach page? It would have been so simple and avoided a lot of users' grief. I was really motivated by my streak (almost to 100) and since losing it, plus my wagers, I haven't completed a lesson in days. I really miss the bar too.
It's been over a week, cant wait until the AB testing is finished! Again, Im missing my XP bar :/
I've got a pretty major bug with the coach. It constantly displays my XP from yesterday as my progress towards today. However, it isn't until I reach today's XP requirement that I get my streak extended. Yesterday's XP also shows on the weekly progress plot for yesterday as well as today so it appears to be being counted twice on the plot, but only once in the overall total.
I have the same problem. It makes it really hard to tell how much I have done in a day, when it seems to give you random amount of points at the start of the day, then remove them later once the day is done. Will try the logout/login method suggested
I've got to the point where after each lesson is complete, I am hoping (expecting) to level up. "Any time now!" I say to myself. It's causing so much anxiety!! O_o I love this site.
Thanks for posting. I too have spend a couple days now expecting to level up soon. I was starting to do some math because I cannot figure out how it hasn't happened yet, unless I did a lot more Danish after I hit level 6 than I thought. I was getting to the point where I thought maybe leveling up was broken. Have to push on. I am SO TEMPTED to drop Danish, I just don't know if it will actually do what I think it will do and show me only my German points in the leaderboard. I love this site, too, but the hate is winning out today.
I leveled up in German. OMG Finally. Now I just have to write down every time I get xp and in what language.
I've been waiting for my German level up too. It should be any day now! I hope....
As I said here (https://www.duolingo.com/comment/4978131) I had a forty two days streak and I lost it because of the coach. For some strange reason it said i had met my goal (the circle was complete) and all of a sudden it turns out I hadn't and there goes my streak. I checked the app on my phone and it says I still have my streak, but it's gone on the web. Is anyone else having trouble with this? Has anybody experienced something similar? Is there a way of recovering my streak?
I would have lost mine had I not been careful on this very point. My mobile app said I had continued my streak even though I knew I was 10xp shy of my daily goal. I went ahead and did one more lesson to get over it, but if I wasn't paying attention, I would have lost it, too.
So the coach destroyed my streak, it covered up the xp bar, and how is it supposed motivate you? A 'circle of doom' won't help motivate you just like whipping slaves won't make them feel happier.
Please duolingo people, add another button in the coach settings called DEACTIVATE COACH. That will be perfect. Thanks so much
How does this interact with the coach feature in iOS which is not global in tracking?
The coach has one big logical problem, as I progress the XPs become harder to get, because the lessons becomes harder. So a 50 Xp in the basic levels are not equal to a 50 Xp in the advance levels.
Please remove this feature as this is very annoying. I am very serious in learning the German language. I read simple story books, listen to Rammstein and spend 1-2 hours here, in duolingo. I do not like to to set my coach to casual :(
50 XP is still 50 XP. If you can't reach it due to progressively harder levels, then you have to lower it if you want to continue meeting the goal. If the levels didn't get harder (learning more tenses, etc.), then you wouldn't be learning the language. :)
My effort is constant. So I must be able to maintain my streak. But to maintain a streak with same XP is hard and becomes harder. Besides, the coach also gobbles up my extra XP at the end on the day.
Example: I had scored 220 Xp on the first day, 92 on the second, but it is futile as this is not carried over. So coach does not recognizes my extra efforts, just like my ex.
No and no, she was my wife, and she is one of the leading researchers in immunology in US.
Right, which is why I suggested you lower your goal, unless you can commit more time each day.
Please ask the coach, to not gobble up mein XPs. I am learning German, so I must have German attitude, I must not lower my goals.
What? This is really a bad answer. So basically, he has to commit more and more time to accomplish the same goal?
Do you even understand that what you are proposing is basically an addiction? Addicts need more and more amount of drug to reach the effect of the drug. It is not healthy to become addicted to anything.
The simple solution here is for Duolingo to drop the (what I've named) "coached streak". That is the Ockham's way. The simplest solution.
Yes, he would. Skills do increase in difficulty. Naturally, if he wants to attain the same number of XP, he's going to have to spend more time on it.
I don't know how you got addiction from that. If we're having issues with school, would we not spend more time, perhaps studying with a tutor or with a book? Yes. That's not addiction. It's just dedicating more time to something.
My suggestion was to lower his goal, anyway.
I lost my streak, because either I didn't see that this coach is connected with streak or it wasn't clearly stated when activating the couch that the streak will be reseted when the couch daily aim won't be achieved. Can you restore my streak, please?
I find myself wasting more time reading about how everyone hates not having the progress bar (which I agree with) than I am spending working...
I don't mind the coach in and of itself --- don't love it either --- but even if all languages count towards it, couldn't we see what we've done in each language? I'm also another one who really does not like being unable to see my progress towards the next level. Okay, a trial is a trial, but having done this as an either/or doesn't seem like the best design. You don't really know what we think of the coach itself --- it's mixed with what we think about having the word counts and progress bars taken away. Why not add the coach and leave the rest of it alone?
Maybe a dumb question but do some users not have this yet? I can't find it anywhere :S
I do hope to see the little green check mark back in the streak flame in the header, because not seeing it makes me nervous, even when I'm 50 XP past my daily goal.
I LOVE the new coach feature. I think it'll really help motivate me. However, I would like to see the XP bar and word count back. :)
This is a nice feature, but now I can't see how many XP I have to earn to get to the next level. Perhaps the only way to see this now is to get to the end of a skill, and in languages where you've finished the whole tree there is no way to see your progress to the next level at all.
i like the coach feauture, but as many have already said, i liked the progres bar very much too. I do have problems with the number of points received per day though and i think there is a problem with different time zones. like today is a new week and my weekly score is 0 which is correct, but the coach tells me i already have 34 points, which i guess are yesterdays points. does anyone else have this problem?
Ditto on liking both.
Yes, I was having a similar problem with point being pushed to the next day/week. It was a time zone issue which I only discovered because of coach. The countdown feature helped me get ahead of this problem though. Is that a feature everyone can see?
Lost my streak despite changing my goal and not missing any days. Disheartening but I will continue studying.
Hi, I like this new feature. However, I would like to still be able to see how far it is until the next level. With this Coach feature in place, I literally have no idea how many XP it is to level 13 German. I have found that if I am close, that can motivate me to practice more.
Also, some of the goals are kind of silly. "Basic" being "1" XP. You can't even earn only 1 XP! If you complete any lesson at all, you earn 10XP minimum. I would prefer if you were able to pick a greater variety of XP levels, too (ex. just type a goal # in, instead of selecting from pre-picked amounts).
It might also be nice to be able to pick a goal every day/week (not mandatory, of course). This could potentially be a bigger goal than XP. For example, "reach level 13", or "learn the skill Negatives", or "get 3 hearts on a lesson". Of course, that's probably too complicated, but if it's possible I think it would be great!
Oh, I didn't know that. I'm not proficient enough to be in Immersion, and I find I get too flustered with Timed Practice, so I haven't really used either.
It would have been nice to know that if you don't make your daily goal that your streak is cancelled. That was not at all clear, and after losing my 150 day steak, the "Coach" feels like a disincentive rather than an incentive!
I think we've had the coach feature for two weeks now.
My opinion is I like the idea, but the implementation is broken.
- Sometimes it is plain buggy and starts the day showing XP that I have not earned.
- There needs to be a target per language, not across all languages. Even different colours on the target or graph to indicate how many XP were from each language would be an improvement.
- I really miss the progress bar
Forgive me if this has been said, but as there are 357 comments I may have missed it. :)
But, I think it may be productive to raise the 10 xp goal to an 11 xp goal. If I am correct, any lesson or review, if completed, earns at least 10 xp points, even with all hearts gone. By raising it to 11, you encourage us even more not to mess up, and it's still useful for those who don't have time to do the two lessons necessary every day in order to complete the 20 xp goal. Otherwise, it's just like having the previous streak system-- you do one lesson, or one practice, and it adds to your streak.
Also, PLEASE bring our old yellow bar back, as well! It provides a little bit of "Umph!" and greatly encourages us to keep going!!!
If you buy the Timed Practice feature in the store, then practice with that, you can get up to 20 XP in one round. Every question you get right adds one XP and gives you more time, with 20 questions total, just like the normal practice.You don´t get a lingot for not missing any questions, though.
I really appreciate the effort the staff puts in these improvements, but I cannot see my old bar in every language I took. For example, now I am taking some French lessons, and I can't see how many points are left for reaching level 25... same with other languages, of course.
I wonder if there is a possibility to see the old, nice and yellow bar again? And also, the number of words we have learned per language?
To be honest, I have lost a bit of motivation. I know I will still learn, but I really miss the yellow bar... that feeling of getting excited when I am/was about to reach a new level.
Thanks in advance.
I was actually interested in using the Coach feature to set myself a goal above the minimum of 1 daily point to maintain my streak. How surprised I was to discover that the Coach WAS the new daily streak requirement!!!!! Nowhere outside of this discussion post - which of course I had no cause to look at until the problem became clear to me - was this set out.
Now my streak has gone from nearly 300 to ZERO. Almost a year's work lost because of this extremely ham-handed deployment of what could have been a useful feature. I hope that when the Duolingo staff responds to the multitude of complaints and concerns this error has created, that they also restore the streaks for those of us who continued our work on the lessons, even if we did not meet the "coach" requirements.
Yes, it was a rude awakening for many of us who are in the same boat. We can only hope our streaks will be reinstated at some point.
I really like the daily goal feature. Sometimes I would just do one exercise, get 5 XP or so, and call it good because I had extended my streak. I've got my goal set at 40 XP, and it's a nice way of making sure I hold myself to a higher standard.
I never paid much attention to the yellow level progress bar (I don't really care about levels), so I don't mind it being gone. But I definitely agree that more information is better, so I agree with everyone that it would be nice to have the old information alongside the new in some format (maybe tabs?).
Can you guys fit both the level bar and the coach on the home page together? Because as much as I'm enjoying the coach, I miss the level bar as well. I think both are helpful, but both should be optional.
I didn't know until I lost my streak and then thought about that coach feature that I had played with the day prior... Email to support hasn't been answered. Any way to restore my streak?
I just discovered that translating documents doesn't count towards your streak or your coach. The sentences we translate to gain a skill are relatively simple compared to the documents we translate. The documents themselves are a valuable insight into how people use the language in every day situations. Therefore, it seems unfair to discourage people from translating documents just because the coach does not count it towards our goal.
That's not true, they do. It's how I keep my streak going everyday for the most part (I have the Coach). :) Your tiers are lower, however, so you have to translate more to get enough XP to count towards the goal.
I actually tried it today. I set the coach feature to 20 XP and I translated over 40 XP in documents, but it didn't count towards my streak. It said my goal had been met, but my streak was not extended. Maybe it's a bug?
Hi Echo101, as an A/B test feature, the coche is experiencing some technical difficulties, which can be expected at this stage. Staff is cataloging all of the bugs and then work to get them fixed. Thanks for the feedback! :)
Feel free to check out the wiki's Troubleshooting page for the Coach to see if anything over there can work as a temporary fix.
Edit: Coach is experiencing technical difficulties. The coche is probably doing just fine. (Ty for catching my typo Alexis. lol)
I wish that I had seen this before my streak was unceremoniously pilfered by the coach.
I have sent a message to support about this but have not heard back. I have some concerns about the implementation of the coach feature. When I found the coach feature, I decided to see if I could figure out what it was all about. Well, I was on a 31-day streak and because I had set the coach feature at 50, I lost my streak and it reset to 1 even though the day I had lost the streak I had finished a lesson in each of the three languages I'm learning. Curiously, the language choice bar on my tablet still tells me I'm on a 41 days streak, even though the internet site is now on an 11 day streak.
While it may seem a little silly, I must admit I'm a little annoyed by this - seeing the long streak was certainly a motivator.
Also, I can no longer see the progress bar for the language I'm in - or how many XPs I earned on each day in that language. That was far more helpful to me than the coach feature - a feature that wasn't explained and in a way...stole my streak.
I don't know how many others have had their streaks interrupted, but it seems to me that if my tablet still knows that I have a 40+ day streak, those streaks could be restored.
I just noticed the coaching feature moments ago, after finding out that my coaching has been set to a higher level without me noticing. I don't want to say much without proof, but since this is just a test, I wonder if there was a bug. Though it could be because of something in my phone or account, if it was hacked (highly unlikely though), etc.
I know of the Duolingo website, but all this time I've been using just my mobile device for Duolingo. And then one day my 31 day streak turned back to 1 day, just like that. I tried looking for an answer from my mobile device, sending a few messages to Duolingo. But after moments of confusion, a friend finally told me to check the website and send a message from there instead, believing it might help since my phone is a bit strange sometimes.
So I checked the website. And then I found an uncompleted daily challenge, 13 out of 20XP. I thought this was en event Duolingo held or something (also highly unlikely). But I found the new coaching setting shortly afterwards, and is surprised when it shows 20XP. Is this a new standard for all users when the coaching feature opened? No, my friend did not have a 20XP goal right off the start. And Duolingo didn't notify me about the change in daily challenge at all.
I believe there is something wrong with either my Duolingo app, my Duolingo account, or my phone. Does anyone have the same problem as I did?
I enjoy the coach, and I think that it's a great feature. However, I miss the old progress bar. As a gamer Duolingo is a good motivator for me because of the anticipation for reaching new levels. Without being able to see how much experience I have on a whole new levels are random, and therefore don't feel as though they're worth as much.
I would love to have the coach still be there, as I enjoy the ability to set my difficulty. What I don't like is how my experience bar has totally disappeared, leaving the X number of experience that I earn each day to be totally meaningless.
Why even use experience numbers when we can't see how much we have?
I really appreciate the effort the staff puts in these improvements, but I cannot see my old bar in every language I took. For example, now I am taking some French lessons, and I can't see how many points are left for reaching level 25... same with other languages, of course.
I wonder if there is a possibility to see the old, nice and yellow bar again? And also, the number of words we have learned per language?
To be honest, I have lost a bit of motivation. I know I will still learn, but I really miss the yellow bar... that feeling of getting excited when I am/was about to reach a new level.
Thanks in advance.
I have upvoted this response once but I would have done this ten times if it were possible. This is exactly how it feels.
I wish there were an easier way to spread the word;
I posted step-by-step tutorials (one for Firefox, one for Chrome) for disabling the coach, or even increasing the daily goal beyond 50 if you choose! https://www.duolingo.com/comment/5144049
I hope this empowers users with choice!
Vous êtes génial! Merci beaucoup! Je souhaite qu'ils feront plus facile d'avoir un choix. Jusque-là, cela est fantastique!
Mahalo (Thank You in Hawaiian) Transitioning! You gave me my XP Bar back! You mentioned that you have time on your hands (unlikely, I'd say). Is that what it takes, or are you attending Hacker U.?
No problem! Ha, nope; No diplomas for me! I've just picked up an understanding of how networking operates in a broad sense. I couldn't tell you what any of the scripting Duolingo uses does, but I can tell you how information has to be passed from us to them! Duolingo is just nice enough to leave the door open for people like us who want to alter the daily goal c:
If they don't reply to this, I don't know what they'll reply to. I feel like we are being ignored.
Don't hold your breath; they never reply. They've had a whole week of people constantly asking for the progress bar back and for the daily goal to be explicitly optional (I mean, seriously, just look at how many posts and comments there are about that everywhere on the forums), and nothing.
Don't get me wrong, I love Duolingo. But it honestly feels like the staff just doesn't care about the users.
The staff does care about its users. We wouldn't have 40+ free language learning courses if they did not. The website is free, the world is not -- the revenue that DuoLingo receives is probably not enough to cover a living wage for its staff, and a re-update to its systems after just a week. Trust me, if they knew that this would upset this many people they wouldn't have done it. Therefore, they do care. Just give it time ;)
That's a fine thought for the staff. However, I would like to set a few things straight:
1) The language-teaching materials are largely crowd sourced, not staff created. This is not to say that the staff has nothing to do with those courses, but it's rather odd to say that if the staff didn't care about the users they would literally not do anything at all.
2) Your assertion about Duolingo's revenues is patently false. Duolingo routinely receives millions of dollars in investments (look them up in the news). As for not having enough to pay a living wage, I refer you to the Jobs page of this very website (it's linked to at the bottom of every page) https://www.duolingo.com/jobs :
- Competitive salaries and generous equity
- Health, dental, and vision insurance (100% for employee, 50% for dependents)
- 20 days of paid time off – we don’t actually count
- Are you a night owl? We have flexible hours
- Daily catered lunch, snacks and drinks
- Gym membership reimbursement
- 401(k) with generous match
As you can clearly see, the staff is well compensated. And that's as it should be! But it's certainly not for lack of material means that the staff doesn't bother to reply to people.
3) "Trust me, if they knew that this would upset this many people they wouldn't have done it. Therefore, they do care." This is circular reasoning at best. But just to make it clear: what we have been talking about goes beyond this one update and how we personally feel about it. We're upset about the Duo staff constantly ignoring the users in general.
Talking about that, that doesn't only upset you - the users - that upsets me - one of the Incubator moderators (and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in those feelings). I may somehow understand why didn't they let know in advance to all users about the new feature, but I cannot understand why they didn't let know us- the course moderators. And they never do. We only find all those "good" news (futurama style), when we have pissed off users complaining all around our discussions.
That seems to be a bit unfair to me. I volunteer about 30-40 hours a week for our course, I've gained an immense experience in what I do here which cannot be easily replaced just by some other volunteer. And that is not valued enough to let me know in advance what changes they are going to make to our courses. That is very demotivating, to say the least.
Thanks for your post, Larisa. Seems like it's a problem (or unwillingness) to communicate and/or act on the part of DL staff when it comes to new feature release. Why go through this same hoopla time after time instead of being transparent from the start with course contributors, and transparent about the release and all that it entails with end users?
It would surely be much easier if they gave us a heads-up instead of springing "pop quizzes" on us every three weeks or so. Less chaos, fewer Support messages, and more happy users and contributors.
- @Larisa: Fully agree!
- @Alexis: Fully agree as well.
Every staff member is extremely busy with lots of stuff. But a lot of the problems they're currently dealing with wouldn't have to be there in the first place it there were better communication and planning and taking some time to really think things through (instead of pushing out lots of ad hoc kind-of-solutions)
Thanks for calling it like it is! From my post way below...." It seems that you prefer a wild, wild west approach to app development. It's a costly approach which, if you're not careful, will seriously damage the trust DL users have placed in Duolingo." I was an IT manager for many years and the hardest thing to do is convince software developers that they are developing for the end user. Don't listen? They turn on you.
@Jaspet Nobody is arguing that web development isn't tough, however, a little customer service and speaking out to us isn't that hard, all they need to do is give some kinda of statement. So we won't shut up, we have every right to speak out when we are being left in the dark to whats happening with no feedback whatsoever, The duolingo website and webstie enginneers are fantastic but I cant say the same for how they are treating their users and thats a cold hard fact.
@Jaspet, dude, there is onyl 350 or so replies in here, it only takes a quick look to see that the overriding opinion is wanting the XP bar back, espeically when the most upvoted comment in this thread is concerning wanting th XP bar back, plus other similar threads that ahve appeared showing the same sentiment, It literally only took me 30 mins or less to see a lot of people are complaining and as for the lost streaks, a shitload of people have messaged them complaing about the same one issue. People arent complaing about a variety of issues here, its the same 2 ones, you only need a quick look at the forum to see that, and with them getting messages contantly, and the forums lighting up, you'd think the messgae would be clear. Im not asking to have the XP bar back RIGHT not or even in days time, however long it takes them is fine, but only until yesterday did they give any official statement, somethign taht should ahve been done a long time ago. When you're a big company, you have to be reayd for these things and customer sevrice is key, espeically when its so easy and fats to get an idea of peoples complaints and then give out some kind of statement.
Oh, Jaspet. Would you like to factually dispute anything I actually wrote in my post, or are you content with just being generally rude and haughty?
In any event, what you wrote is a non-sequitur. It doesn't take a feat of web-development genius to talk to people; it just takes caring and willingness. They have lots and lots of very easy and direct ways to communicate, but they don't. What that has to do with the complexity of the system or the number of dependencies it contains is beyond me, but I'm willing to learn, if you're willing to elucidate.
Guys, just consider the numbers. There are tens of millions of users of Duolingo, hundreds of new forum posts and thousands of user feedbacks every day. And you expect the handfull of DL employes to follow it all and respond in timely fashion? It's imposible. My strong reaction was to your statement, that they are not willing to listen. I am not affiliated with DL in any way, but since I have active experience with managing much smaller, but still big scale websites, I actually admire them for the way and speed they are progressing with improvements, including the ideas from the userbase.
I concur in reference to the revenue Duolingo generates. The sole reason this website exists is for the purpose of utilizing the members to translate the web, not because some rich people want to be nice and donate to the masses who cannot afford a half way decent education to learn another language. Machine translators are not as accurate as needed therefore human translators are imperative to translate the web. This service can be VERY expensive, up to $0.20 a word or more depending on the content and language. We get to learn a language for free, the owners of Duolingo get human translators for the cost of maintaining this website which is far less than $0.20 a word. I am thankful for the free education however it is not like we're getting something for nothing, all the members of Duolingo are aiding some filthy rich folks in getting even more filthy rich. Nonetheless, Duolingo should absolutely be more attentive to the members who are providing 100% accurate human peer (many peers) reviewed web translation service at no cost in exchange for learning another language at no cost, Rosetta stone is not equally as expensive. There is a professional human translation service called wordlingo.com (this might be a coincidence) of which offers fast accurate document translations, available 24/7 365, native speaking experienced translators in over 141 languages etc., you can order now or get a quote.....
Sorry man, but you clearly havent been involved in any web development, if you write stuff like this. They care a ton and those things will be fixed and improved, but it takes time! You have no clue how complex these systems are and how many dependencies and often times different people are involved to change something, making sure you do not broke something else. Just shut up and wait.
I agree this is the best online course I have come accross. I love it. Indeed just give it time!
the staff obvioslly cares beacuse we have so many cirriculam activites such as chat test and more " donate a lingot "
Their is JSON in source code it collects information and if the value is true for google ads on your user, then you get ads.
Well, that's the nature of testing. Hardcore users are the ones who most likely focus on every single detail to achieve their goals, and will complain about any slight change that affects that. Given the few people complaining about this missing feature, and the fact that most aren't really talking about it in terms of learning (but XP), it seems prudent that Duolingo doesn't make abrupt changes that will cause more problems.
I say few because no single post in Duolingo as far as I know has ever reached 10000 upvotes or more than 2000 comments. There is a difference between perception and reality, and anyway, Duolingo's mantra is:
Also I see people talking about surveys. I've created and conducted a research survey, and it is not as simple as people in post seem to believe. Much research has to be done to design the survey itself, consult literature, develop proper questions, conduct pilots, and choose the right sample. There are also costs and issues dealing with erroneous data. You may end up scrapping the whole survey if the results are inconclusive or invalid.
P.S. There appears to be an A/B test where some users have their progress bar back and the coach.
--Everyone just take a second and have a breath. There was no reason to downvote Dessamator's comment..--
You're right about survey creation. If one wants to make a survey that actually provides reliable data, it takes a ton of time and work and iteration--and even then it's usually not perfect because people have a really hard time generating accurate reports about themselves.
I am not sure I see the rationale for your thresholds of 10000 upvotes or 2000 comments, but I think I take your point. I believe you're saying that this particular group of squeaky wheels is a small percentage of total users. I don't know the actual numbers, but I would tend to figure you are probably right. If we actually were a significant percentage, then I would imagine DuoLingo would have a different policy. They would probably take more time to communicate how they perceive the value of UX testing.
> I am not sure I see the rationale for your thresholds of 10000 upvotes or 2000 comments.
That number (10000) represents 1/1000 of likely active users, if we made an educated guess that there are 10,000,000 active users on average. I think there's a news report somewhere indicating those numbers.
You understood my point perfectly.
regarding some users having their progress bar back. I appear to be one. Not the old progress bar, but a listing of point totals and points needed to upgrade to the next level for all my languages. This at 1 a.m. on 10/27/2014. Even better than the old progress bar -- I can concentrate on my language skills rather than simple math!
...oh that moment heart aches good old stylish theme instead of this childish one.
They can't just change the content of the AB test in the middle of it. I'm pretty sure that would make the results unreliable. If this feature passes/fails the AB test, I'm sure it would be a lot easier to put that bar back in.
That's certainly true. As long as the test is running they won't change anything. That's for sure. (What I don't get is the point of this and other tests in the first place. They're clearly overdoing it. Too much A/B, too little communication).
Instead of trying to "get into our heads" and predict what we would like, they should simply ask us, through a survey or right here on the forums. No harm in that.
@wataya, I don't agree that user retention is such a good metric. As a mobile metrics analyst I can tell that there are plenty of useful metrics. And you can successfully survey people. Gather ideas from users first. Take those suggestions which seem to make sense, assess what is doable, choose top 3, then let users vote for what they need the most - then implement it. Everyone is happy.
I would say that for Duolingo to make profit - metrics are the key. And the key metric is not the retention at all - the profit bringing users are those who are experienced enough and who translate a lot. Those users' needs should be the priority. IMHO
I'm moving to Australia this winter, so unless they are interested in remote workers, they will not hire me :)) However, that motivational part of the application and website - I feel like there are so many opportunities just wasted. They got such a great idea - a goldmine - but they only scratch the surface. But I should admit, that it is not only their problem - I use fitbit and garmin and striiv as fitness trackers. Striiv is the best in that sense, but fibit and garmin - those are really losing points on not motivating people properly. Creating all those game motivation features is extremely cheap (comparing to real commodities) and there is plenty of knowledge of how to do that in the game industry, and they still fail to offer you a comprehensive system of levels, badges, prizes, achievements and so on. Total waste.
If I could create mobile apps or websites, I would totally do something like that, but I'm not a developer. Actually, I'm thinking to go and gain some experience working for a game company and then I want to gather a team and create some app with really great motivational schema.
@Emanuel: No reason why they can't send it out in an email, and also post the link in a stickied discussion. I know a small percentage read the forums (part of this mess in the first place), so Duolingo should take advantage of email. They already send messages for every notification, and used to have a "newsletter", so I don't see that being an issue if they used email. :)
@Alexis, I love how you first wrote - surgery instead of survey - that was definitely a Freudian mistake :)))
@Larissa: I completely agree with you. In case it wasn't clear, there are some irony tags missing in my post above.
@Larisa - you are truly awesome. Write to me when you develop something! I'd also be interested in the fitness motivators.
Ah Alexis, that'd be problematic. I don't think you'll be able to put your preferences, wishes and experiences in a single real number :) Much easier to deal with a cover-it-all user retention rate.
@wataya: Not really. Just have a feature in mind, and ask for feedback. Piece of cake! I've taken several surveys for new features on sites (and one recently for a new learning method). They present the new feature, ask for your dislikes/likes, ask for improvements, and there you go. No outcry, no glitches, no tears.
@Larisa: What the heck, just let them study our brains. That was a keyboard mistake, actually. It was correct until I went back to change another word. :P
It is obvious that the problem "they" would have with this is the ammount of users covered by the test (survey), because us (active forum users and moderators) are just a small ammount, but I do believe we are the ones who can give better, realistic feedback to really improve the platform since we are more involved with those other options DL offers, not just the game...
how do you go from one unit to the next? I don't have a padlock on the subjects below basic 2...and thus I'm forced to redo various versions of the same lesson
I don't know how much it matters. I have always been taught that reliable results require that (a) each experimental condition is unaware of the "treatment," and (b) that people in the test condition don't have a client-side work-around (as revealed in other threads). But I don't know. I haven't ever tested millions of users at once. Maybe it washes out.
I see your point. We need to do something. If you report a glitch in a lesson, you wait for a week or even a month for the patch... nothing. Why do they do nothing? It's like they made the "report a problem" area a chat area. I mean, are you kidding?
Signed, Praetor Tertius Cliathairi.
Oh, leave the faux indignation at home, please. It's an experiment; of course some are going to not like it, that doesn't mean Duo can just say "Well, let's just kill the experiment, some people don't like it." That's what the experiment is for.
- I am at home.
- I'm going to suggest you leave the reflexive defensiveness and straw men behind.
I stated a fact: the Duolingo team routinely fails to address the concerns of users. I didn't say this wasn't an experiment (everyone knows that's what Duolingo does), and I definitely didn't say they should kill it. Nobody did.
If you look at the last few days' activity on the forum, you'll see that a very significant number of people (not just "some") have had real problems with it, even people who like it as a whole. No one has any interest in it going altogether.
And what horrible thing did we want from the Duo team? The blood of their firstborn? The sacred bones of their ancestors? No, just communication. Just for them to respond to people. Unilateral announcements with no followup make people uncomfortable; they make users feel disrespected and excluded. Nothing faux about it; it's just being, you know, a human.
But since they like A/B-testing, they would have to somehow reply to some of us... Maybe only half of us can see this post by bchan?! 8-)
Indeed, we have an entire forum for our (incubator contributors') needs and complains. They read it too. And then we also can submit tickets, requests, suggestions, just as users have reports. They read them too, but you would agree, that we don't write those things just so that someone reads them, we want some actions. :)))
Patience, my fellow gato. though i hope they woudn't not ignore us. ^_^ on the contrary, i can see their effort; that is why i love duolingo xD
Agreed, it sucks. But, if you click on 'your username' on the top right of the screen, then click 'your profile', and on the right of the screen it should show your languages that you are learning and how much experience you have in each one. Here is the chart that shows the experience needed to level:
1 - 60 → 60
2 - 60 → 120
3 - 80 → 200
4 - 100 → 300
5 - 150 → 450
6 - 300 → 750
7 - 375 → 1,125
8 - 525 → 1,650
9 - 600 → 2,250
10 - 750 → 3,000
11 - 900 → 3,900
12 - 1,000 → 4,900
13 - 1,100 → 6,000
14 - 1,500 → 7,500
15 - 1,500 → 9,000
16 - 1,500 → 10,500
17 - 1,500 → 12,000
18 - 1,500 → 13,500
19 - 1,500 → 15,000
20 - 2,000 → 17,000
21 - 2,000 → 19,000
22 - 3,500 → 22,500
23 - 3,500 → 26,000
24 - 4,000 → 30,000
To give an example, I am level 13 in Español and need a total of 6,000 experience to reach level 14.
So for now, use this chart, keep studying, and hope DuoLingo puts the option to see your level progression in a more readily available spot soon.
Guess what, Joseph-- Duo decided to remove the level progression info completely so it can't even be found on one's profile page. Bad Duo! Naughty owl! Bring back our XP and level info!
When I follow that, I see what levels I am in each language, but not how much XP I have in each.
Edit: But thanks for the chart! I'm sure I'll refer to it often :)
Ah, someone else in the same boat as me. There is NO way to determine where you are in any particular language. It is driving me crazy. I can't even imagine if I had as many languages as you how impossible it would be. Hopefully they fix this soon.
No, it's not recorded there. It shows my levels (11 in French, 9 in Dutch, etc) but XP is no longer listed anywhere for individual languages. If I click "Home", I can see the aggregated XP for the past 7 days, but nothing else.
Woah, I just noticed. Before my French leveled up to 16 it was still there. You can view it in the mobile version though.
I just saw today that I can no longer see where my individual levels are at, so while this chart is helpful, there is currently no way for me to find how much further I need to go to reach the next level. Very aggravating.
Joseph -- I followed your suggestion but I only see the icons with the level on them. Nowhere does it show my XPs per language. I can see the total XPs on my homepage by clicking the "all time" tab above the leaderboard. I also noticed you said "it SHOULD show your languages that you are learning and how much experience you have in each one." Well, mine doesn't. Does yours?
Joeseph's method worked last week but no longer does so on the web version. As of today, 10-20-14, I can still see my point totals on the Android version, but I won't count on doing so tomorrow. There seems to be a DL push to hide this information. Some new esoteric instructional technique?
As DL knows far more about language instruction than I do, I will trust them on this, but like the rest of you, I won't like it.
I noticed the same thing, and had a similar reaction.
That said, I do think the "Coach" feature is pretty cool.
I totally agree with you, yesterday I saw a post showing pictures of the new layout and this person's goal was in insane and was something like 930/50 (exp). It is really useless for these kind of users, and I would include myself here because after more than 6 months studying I've developed my own (I consider effective) method for my goals. I do think new users can make good use of this feature, I used it myself when I started but dropped it after I moved to web platform, mobile was simply not the best for me, but since I've seen you can't really disable the coach, I would dare to say that for "old" and active users, it just feels like a big loss. I'm B in this test btw, fortunately...
Sorry, Duo, the coach feature leaves me cold. Keep the coach if it revs up some users but please put back the progress bar for those of us who found it interesting or even motivating. Are you planning to revamp the Lingot structure? Is the Level structure on its way out? Are either or both of those possibilities explanations for removing the progress bar and substituting daily goals? Inquiring minds and all that jazz...
I realize I am now just one of many, but hopefully this proves how much we want to at least be able to see our old progress bar, along with our vocabulary score. For me, I was more inclined to push for the next level when I could see it in sight. Now, the next level is very unceremoniously reached.
You know, I think that they should just let people choose what they want there: the XP bar, the Daily Goal, the Activity Feed, etc. Or they could combine the Daily Goal and XP bar and put both on there.
I hope they do keep both really.
The new coach feature helped me fix an issue I had maintaining streaks. I could never keep one longer than three days. This now has let me see that problem was a time zone issue. Prior to this I logged in daily and yet lost lingots (that double your lingots betting feature) because apparently that day was rolling over and skipping a day. I emailed to find a solution but didn't get a response and gave up for a bit. Since the new feature I finally see what's happening with the time and can keep up my streak. I don't see why we would need to forsake one for the other.
I also agree with Larisa Alexis and much of what other users are saying. I love the site but felt with the help requests that my emails were just a waste of time. On the other hand I've seen many improvements from one week to another when you use the ''report this'' button, especially with reference to errors and acceptable answers, so I know there are people working on issues.
I didn't know about the streak losses that occurred with this until a day or so ago but that was how I had felt for months, wondering at why it seemed to work for others. I wouldn't want to lose that now that I've finally nipped that issue in the bud but I do so want the progress bar back.
By the way, is the point system a bit off? Maybe it's because the progress bar is gone—I don't know but it seems I get less points for each achievement or practice than before.
Take my one and only lingot. You've earned it. By the way, for me, I can't even level up let alone see how close I am. It's been completely broken.
I have leveled up in Portuguese since the start of Coach testing, so the XP points are definitely still accruing (so don't stop!). However, it's true that there is no convenient way to tell how close you are to leveling up without the individual progress bars. I suppose one could manually tally the points from each lesson and compare it to the above chart, but I find that outright discouraging (the opposite of what I assume the goal of Coach to be).
Whoops. Now it works. Whether it got fixed or I was mistaken, I am happy for this development.
Maybe it's only broken for me(and maybe a select few others) because I was on the verge of leveling French and Italian up. Italian mostly because I'm at level one with that. And neither have gone up. Either way, I never intended to stop. :D I just hope that everything gets sorted out soon. Which I'm sure it will.
Definitely! Seeing how far I have to go until I level up always gave me a big push to work hard! I think the coach feature could be great, but I'd like that XP bar back too...
yes, i believe it would be nice to have a status bar to see how much we have to gain in order to lvl up
Not only have I lost my bar, but now I cant see my point total in my profile. Which I was using as a replacement visual aid. Never log-off and things seem to remain.
The feature is motivating and useful, but the mobile app needs a progress bar that would notify if i've reached my goal for the day or not. Please consider adding something like that.
Once you set a goal you can't change it .I really liked it when i could see when i was almost at the next level.
This „Coach” is just stupid in my opinion, there is no point of having it at all...sorry but this is just from my point of view. Please Duolingo staff bring back the experience bar! :)
I would like to remove the goal and go back to how it was before. Is this possible, as i do not like the goal, nor how it changes the timings for the day (is it set to American time?)
I find it a very useful tool, because it stimilates me to practice more than usual. So I would not shoot this tool down.
Of course we all experience that there are some missing links (like how many points you need to get to level X). But hey! As they have said; they are testing this tool, which means in my ears they are still improving this feature and others (as the staff is doing all the time).
Greetings from a motivated learner :)
Mobile and web versions show different XP daily values. At the moment I have 122 XPs for today in the web version and 102 XPs in the mobile one. Totals are the same. Again, I have started the day not with zero XPs but with twenty-something.
It seems to be necessary to logout/login for a changed coach limit to become effective for the streak.
I have coach on mobile devices but not on the website - is there something wrong? I went into Settings and couldn't find any way to set a goal.
Me too! We are not part of the group of people who have been chosen to test this feature.
It is all we can do for now. Hopefully, they will get rid of any bugs before it is expanded to the rest of us. I don't want to lose the gold progress bar, word count and xp count for each language. Immersion points don't always count towards your goal yet. And if you don't meet your goal you lose your streak. Does the coach work for learning the reverse courses? I learn some languages from a different base language. I wonder what that effect will be.
I guess it is all we can do, so have a lingot for letting me know it's not just me :)
I just tested this out. Set my goal to 1 XP the other day. Today i decided to do Immersion translation. I picked up 8 XP and my goal was met - however my streak was not extended. I completed a new lesson and my streak was extended. So you have to be careful with this feature.
I like the Coach feature, I set it to 30 xp so every day, I do 3 lessons and it actually keeps me from overdoing it or exhausting myself from learning.
HI there, I was the flash cards which are nouns would have the der,die,das included for better practice.
We are being treated like laboratory rats to find out what motivates us!
Duolingo is connected to a University's graduate program. But, that's never been a secret. And when you realize that this motivational research is going towards improving how well Duolingo works... we're basically helping ourselves by being part of these experiments, and helping future Duolingoers as well.
As someone who has been on Duolingo for (longer than) 388 days, I much prefer today's Duolingo to when I first started. Hundreds of experiments between then and now using my data along with millions of other users contributed to the improvements. And I've been in plenty of the failed test groups as well as a few big sucesses. So, hopefully you can appreciate that the aspects you most enjoy were in part the fruit of my own frustrations in the past. ^_~
I am posting once again about this issue. I have been very careful trying to re-create a new streak, but it isn't possible as the timer seems to be arbitrary, or is set to a very different time than it suggests on the circle. please do not bother using lingots for a streak freeze. They do not freeze the streak with coach and just get eaten while you lose your streak. I am disappointed that DL has not fixed this problem as it is a demotivator. I shall continue, but ignore all prospects of lingots or streaks as they are illusory.
Just adding, that I am getting the emails congratulating me for my streak extending, when the site clearly shows it has been wiped out. I did find the streak motivating. So many psychological things are silly when you think about it, but they do work on a great many people
Thanks, Duo, for returning my level information. It was back today on my profile page listed under "Achievements." Even though in the real world the information is without meaning, its return made me feel a bit less like a mouse at the mercy of an owl.
My experience of the coach has been the opposite of "keep yourself motivated". I find myself now demotivated. The first thing that happened was that I lost my streak of how-ever-many days which had built really well. I thought it was a bug in the software, until it dawned on me that the great new coach, instead of motivating me had used the stick approach, and not just any stick approach, the nasty surprise stick approach: "Didn't quite make the goal? Ok I'm taking away your hard-earned streak, even though you're still coming back every day." Sigh, a simple warning when setting the coach, "You will lose your streak, if you miss even one day of the goal", would have been enough. I miss the levels - levelling up was, I realise, a motivator for me. Not much of what I have written is new, but I wanted to add my voice to the seeming throng. Coach is not helpful to me in the current incarnation.
wwkudu - You have pretty much voiced my sentiments as well. After losing a fairly long streak, plus my wagers, I am less inclined to want to do a lesson every day. As I pointed out to the powers-that-be at DL, and as you indicated, a simple warning on the coach page about losing your streak if you miss a day of the goal would have saved a lot of grief for many people.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like the new Coach Feature. Previously I often did the minimum daily requirement of 10 points (1 lesson) to maintain my streak (I did not translate, which only requires 1 xp). When the new Coach feature came out I upped my goal to 20 points and now I'm doing twice as much as a result, and often up towards 100-200 points. The bottom line is, the new Coach feature has motivated me to do more than what I was doing previously. So I like it.
Secondly, in regards to the requirements for maintaining the streak, it was clear to me on the first day when I changed my goal from 10 to 20, that after doing 1 lesson (10 xp) my streak was not continued for that day. I always, /always/, look at the streak icon to verify that my streak advances each day. On that first day it was clear that the streak had not been advanced after doing 10-13 xp, so I did another lesson to get it over 20 xp. It wasn't rocket science to figure out that I had to achieve my new goal of 20 in order to maintain my streak. I can see that some people might have missed that, but it's surprising that so many did. I'm also surprised that they hadn't bought a Streak Freeze as insurance. If they had, they would have maintained their streak and had plenty of time to figure out the new system.
I appreciate the effort the staff at DuoLingo are making to make this service better. I have to say though, I don't like this change. The coach is a feature I don't use. The UI obscures nearly 1/3 of my cellphone's screen which I find constricting. I can't remove it or minimize it. On the web-based version, the UI has replaced the progress bar which I liked with a graph which I don't really need.
I work on 4 different languages. I try to do at least one lesson in each a day. I easily meet whatever requirements the Coach feature would impose. It doesn't help me. It doesn't encourage me to do more, or direct me to specific skills to improve. For me, it just an intrusive UI that has replaced a UI I preferred.
Please allow users the option to disable the Coach function. -Jon
The thing that I don't like about this feature that you cannot see your progression, i.e. how many words you've learned so far and how much more exp you need to get a level-up, in non-english-speaking courses.
I'm in one of the tests for once! Yes, I have been in other tests, but only occasionally.
Go group B! I lost my entire streak thanks to this useless contraption of a "feature".
Count me in the minority that likes the coach... Doing one point on timed practice to keep a streak isn't really achieving the purpose of doing some meaningful amount of language learning per day so it keeps you honest with yourself.
I also don't really mind the loss of the progress bar. The levels really only indicate the amount of time you've spent on the site, not your level of proficiency so they're not something I spend a lot of time paying attention to.
Actually, it's the streak that is just "the amount of time you've spent on the site", the levels are essential IMHO.
Well, what I mean more specifically is that it's time spend on the number of exercises you've been through. Someone who practices and never moves past the first 3 exercises can have the same number of points as someone who's completed the tree forward and backwards.
To be clear, I'm not advocating that they take away the progress bar. I know that gamification is great to get new users hooked. I just think after a certain point you're either staying here to learn the language or to do the minimum to accumulate fake points.
I know personally I've been a victim of my own laziness and done a single point to keep my streak even though I know that's not an effective way to keep learning the language and it defeats the purpose of streak to begin with. I like the fact that I have to do a meaningful amount of practice to keep my streak. TBH I wouldn't mind if they changed the requirement to at least 10 points for everyone anyway.
Personally, I also think there's more that could (eventually) be done to make the points and levels more meaningful and improve the gamification. IE:
Diminishing returns on old lessons. Completing the lesson with problems like "The boy" and "The girl" 150 times shouldn't take someone from level 15 to level 16.
Quests or missions could be added that are tied into the spaced repetition system.
Additional requirements (like passing a proficiency test or doing X immersion sentences) could be required for reaching higher levels.
Adding things like more bonus lessons to the lingot store.
Some sort of achievement or trophy showcase on your profile.
More granular metrics like number of times you've completed a lesson, problem words, number of times you've failed a particular lesson etc.
I think it would be a good idea to tie levels to certain points on the tree, so that you have to earn XPs AND reach checkpoints to level up, and for example you had to reach the end of the tree to get to level 15 or 20. That is, reaching a checkpoint with enough XPs would get you to a certain level, and if you don't have enough XPs it would level you up when you get the XPs you need.
I think people going slower still need to see XP going up and occasional levelling up, but I'd make it that harder lessons (i.e. higher up the tree) are worth more XP and spread out the XP requirements for levels.
This is similar to how D and D used to work (may still do, but it is 20 years since my last game). It was possible to get to level 20 by just killing kobolds, but it would be boring and very slow going. Much better to work up to slaying a dragon. XP required between levels roughly doubles.
Translated to duolingo terms that could become
level | xp to achieve level
i.e. much more xp required between higher levels, but more xp given for doing harder lessons.
No,I cannot agree with you. some people need to reinforce more (me!) and can only progress through the tree slowly, but we still like to see something reflecting our effort. Only you know what your "level" means anyway!
Agreed. I'm one of those "needs to reinforce more" people. I make Duo a very high priority in my life, visit every day, and strive to earn 50-100 XP. I'm barely halfway through my French tree despite all that time and effort. My "low" status on the tree doesn't mean I didn't work hard or that I'm undeserving of a higher level.
Duo used to let us see other peoples' trees in addition to their XP level. That way you knew if someone was pretty knowledgeable about a language (finished tree, or close to it) and maybe just came here to refresh. Or if they were more like me, slow and steady and thorough. I think bringing the tree back might be a good option.
But mostly: I think requiring XP plus a level in the tree would only encourage folks to rush through the tree without taking time to review and actually learn the material. That's counter to the goal of learning a language.
Irtward, if you need to reach a point in the tree AND a certain amount of XPs, I think it would encourage people to review past lessons while they are advancing through the tree. I've set myself goals that are reaching a certain level when I finish a certain unit, and if I reach the end of the unit before getting to the level, then I strenghthen lessons until i get the level, and then I go on.
Right now I am about to reach the end of unit "Present perfect", and my goal is to reach level 13 when I finish it, I'm very likely to finish it much before reaching the level, so I will keep strenghthening past lessons.
ok, is there really no normal way to see one's level points?! (i mean without scripts and magic software tricks) - numerous people have been complaining about that......................
I just took this. I went to Timed Practice and earned one point. There might be other ways to see the bar as well.
Argy, really? Crud It's probably because I have the Coach but haven't activated any of it's settings yet. :( Thanks for getting back to me!
You can put the bar back with the Greasemonkey extension for Firefox and Tampermonkey for Chrome.
There's a post above by josephfloretta that breaks down how many points are required for each level. You can see your own points by clicking "your profile." That will give you an idea of how close you are to levelling up.
where exactly are the points? I don't see any points in "your profile", just the streak, the level, and translation tiers..
Hmm I don't know if this is part of the testing or not but when I click the dropdown button next to my name and click my profile, my points are listed in the upper right hand corner where it says "Languages"
For example mine says "German (Level 18) 12485 xp"
That is also an A/B test at the moment. It's been two weeks since the roll-out (maybe three today).
Seems longer.... (I cannot stand the coach, lost my streak and can't manage my daily goals for the separate languages...)
Has anyone had trouble where they successfully completed a session but the progress bar on that topic didn't move?? NOTHING ABOUT THE STREAK, just that the bars on the actual topic don't move even when you pass the test without dying.
Yeah, I've noticed that. It's weird sometimes. I'll do a strengthen skills thing and nothing will get strengthened, even though I didn't miss anything. Just redo it. It will probably work then.
How many questions did you get right out of twenty? There might be more to learn in that lesson. Did you pass with all your hearts? It has happened to me, but I just redid strengthen skills if I have done all the lessons in that section icon.
The Coach is an A/B test feature, which means only a portion of the website users have it. If you don't see it, you are probably not a beta tester for it. :)
Is there a way to figure out /when/ your coach resets? I know mine is ~somewhere around 11:00pm but I have no idea /when/ exactly. I ended up using one of my streak freezes because I was in the middle of doing my daily lesson when it rolled over (I assume).
There seem to be a lot of glitches with the coach. The "hours left to go" should accurately line up with your coach reset (website only). Just make sure you are earning your goal points each day, or your streak will not count.
Yeah I just was wondering if there was a way to tell like the minute it reset. It was easier with 12:00am exactly being the cut off and while I like the ability to "customize" when your reset time is, it doesn't really work in practice.
It always (and still does) expire at midnight based on the timezone you were in when you first made your account.
It is not customizable.
Is it supposed to do that even with the coach feature because mine definitely rolls over around 11:00pm which is when I set the coach. (It literally just reset and it's 11:05pm) Maybe it's an error with my account idk.
Could your clock on your computer be wrong? It just turned 1106, and you posted this 3 minutes ago. :)
I mean, if my computer is off by a few minutes, that's not too much of an issue, but it's clearly resetting about an hour early which it didn't do prior to having the coach so I have reason to believe it's something to do with the feature. I appreciate the help though!!
Your account is set to America/New York, -0400. Under your streak it says how long you have left until your account time midnight. Yours reads 23 hours, because it is currently 12:16 EST.
Is there a way to change this? I live in the central time zone (and I have ever since I started Duo), so I don't know why it's saying I live in the eastern time zone.
I am curious. They set this from where you first started your account and not from where you live. Did you happen to try the Duolingo app on your phone when in Eastern time? Have you never traveled to somewhere in the Eastern time zone? I am wondering how the Coach feature could have possibly changed your location of first opening your account.
I received two email reminders at 12:57am this morning that "You're on fire! Continue your 381 day streak." I usually only receive 1.
I don't have this feature in my settings. I have looked everywhere, but can't find it!
I love this program, but the prompt for voice for me to hear is totally unsuitable,,,it needs to be redone to be much clearer,,,,most of the voice requests for the sentence I give up on as I can't understand part of the sentence...
There should be a little button that looks like a turtle under the button for replaying the voice. The turtle button will slow the audio down significantly. As a level two person, the voice can still be a challenge to understand because you are still building your listening comprehension in addition to the voice quality being computerized. But, it will become more understandable as you go (but only if you don't skip those questions.) Meanwhile, there is another option. I strongly recommend against it for hearing people with a very low level because it will hurt their overall ability to converse in their new language. But, there is an option to turn the speakers off. To get to your settings, hover over your username where it appears in the blue bar at the top of the screen. A drop down menu will appear with the setting and you can turn off speakers. Don't forget to hit "save". If you do this, I strongly, strongly, strongly recommend finding a replacement source for listening comprehension and using it every day. Keep your goal in mind. If it is learning a language, don't cut corners. ;)
I am happy the Coach has gone from handheld device to laptop/PC, but I have one question: There is a one XP per day coaching set. The minimum you can do in one day is 10 XP, and I remember that not long ago you could practice a word or two for 2 or 3 XP. Does Duo have a plan to bring that back?
Thank you very much,
Praetor Tertius Cliathairi
i think i learned more than i used to learned at my french private courses, found out yesterday about duolingo, great think, recommended to everybody
well i need help i thought that a spanish class at school wil help me but im wrong so i started duolingo i need help
I really love the app, my kids love it too. It is simple and user friendly plus uses a great technique for teaching. THANK YOU
I cannot quite follow your discussion because I can still see the progress bar and I know how many Spanish words are in my vocabulary. I cannot seem to find the place where I 'write in my goal'.
Not everyone has this feature which is being tested on some of the people. on duolingo.
I am able to open any icons below "Animals" in Irish. All the icons are gray. No idea why this happened.
Is "Animals" icon golden? If it is not you may not have finished all the lessons in that group? My icons are gray below "Plurals" which I am still working on,
i like how they make improvements. but i do not understand how or why they put were you have to strengthen your skills. i do not like it at all
I haven't been on very much lately, so this will be nice to keep me activated! Thanks DuoLingo
It's pretty hard to get to the standard goal, I have been on six hours total and have not ever reached my goal.
I like the goal because it helps me to do duolingo every day and It keeps me on my streak thank you duolingo for your site and all the special features.
I'm thankful for how much effort the staff put into making duolingo a safe and free place to learn with lots of languages and new up coming languages. I wish that I could see when I was almost at the next level, but I'm still thankful for duolingo.;)
I think that XP goals are much better than goals based on how much time you spend, because if you have a 5 minute daily goal, sometimes it's hard to even complete one lesson in 5 minutes, and if you do half a lesson it doesn't count, so XP goals are very helpful.
Hi every one :) I'm facing a problem with the Coach feature which is that : I can't find it !! neither on the home page nor in the Settings .
I'm sorry if I've missed something, but I haven't been using this site for about a year and came back a week ago.
and thanks for help :)
You should probably remove the 1 XP option. I have always earned more than one with an actual complete lesson.
You can extend your streak by getting 1 answer correct in Timed Practice (1XP), translating 1 word in Immersion (1XP), voting on a sentence in Immersion (1XP - Tier 2, 2XP - Tier 3, 5XP - Tier 4 and above).
Having both the old and the new features would be the best! there is enough space to add them anyway...
I really like the feature. I need to learn extremely quickly before i move and it really helps to keep me motivated
I´ve just lost my streak of 280+ because of coach feature. :( So unfair! I didn´t know that it does not count a day when I don´t get enough points daily. It would be nice to have a feature of streakfreeze also after - not just in advance for the cases when instead of 290 day streak apears there horrible number 0. I would pay double amout of linglots for that.
i love the coach feature but i wish that the choices went higher than fifty just to make sure that i work hard and get a lot done
I do not like at all this new feature. I really want my "nice and yellow bar " back. (thank you "Soolrak") Please! Or makes it like an option. Thank you!
I really think that you should be able to set your own goal (not what is given to you). For example, maybe someone wants to set it at 34 XP. OK, that's kind of an odd number, but I'm just saying that for example. For me, 10 is too easy, but 20 is a little over the top. There is no 15, so I'm stuck with the hard or the easy. Maybe the Coach is to push you, and I should be doing 20 right now, but I think it'd really be helpful to have a set-it-yourself goal.
@thing.one12 (cool username, btw :D) You can set your goal for 10, and then just earn 5 extra points if you want. You don't have to stop once you reach your goal. :)
Ha, I'm so dumb-- i could've figured that out :P thanks for making the obvious clear ;)
Nah, it's all good. Sometimes we're distracted by all the other things our brains are working on. :)
Can I get my regular experience tracker back please? I hate the coach, and there is no option to turn it off. I cannot do the hack that was touted around here as I am on a macbook pro. Please, please, please, give me my tracker back. I strongly dislike this coach thing...
Thank you so much indeed for this radiant idea. I had a good time until I was finally able to exterminate it.
I see comments over 9 months old from people asking for a way to deactivate coach and/or be able to see their level progress. Along with vocabulary list, it is yet another unresolved major problem. I love duolingo but it seems the site is dying.
Dying?! Duolingo is making new languages at a faster rate than ever. Don't use this comment section as a gauge of how active Duolingo is because every comment thread goes defunct at some point or another. The comments section in general is not a good measure, in fact. More and more people are using Duolingo on their iOS, Android and Windows phones and it's hard to read comment sections on my android and my iPod touch doesn't even have the option to go to the comments. Some evidence that Duolingo is growing is that it's Alexa rank is going up. It's currently at 1,596, the best it has been in the last 12 months - http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/duolingo.com. Either way, rest assured that Duolingo is not dying :)
Please read my comment first as you clearly didn't. I'm talking about very serious problems that have been lying unresolved for the last 10 months. I consider an option THAT CANNOT BE TURNED OFF after being turned on as a major problem, along with vocabulary list feature that has been deleted just like that. Again, duolingo is amazing, but the people behind the app itself are clearly procrastinating and/or focusing on marketing over QA.
That's not new, for example so many people have been wanting a course for the asian languages such as chinese and japanese for years. I'm sure there are people willing and ready to contribute because there are so many people who speak these languages.
I consider an option THAT CANNOT BE TURNED OFF after being turned on as a major problem,
It's not so much that it can't be turned off, but more so that it is a new permanent feature (a feature that you don't like is still a feature). Even people who choose not to turn it on in the beginning had the feature forced upon them several months ago.
along with vocabulary list feature that has been deleted just like that.
The vocabulary list is still avaliable for me. It isn't always avaliable for newer languages though.
well, you must be the lucky one as I have no vocab list for any of the languages I'm learning. Also, I've just turned on the coach feature yesterday just to check it out but it turned out it deletes the level progress bar that I've found to be highly motivating. I can't get it back. It pisses me off that they force upon me a feature that should be optional as advertised. Listen, I understand that the site is free and all, but it doesn't mean its UI and features can become worse and worse without anyone daring to protest.
People did protest, myself included, but more people liked the feature than disliked it and it is easier for them to maintain a site where everyone isn't using different formats.
Have you checked your profile page for language progress. I think they recently gave everyone the ability to see it again. I know I wasn't in the original test group, but I have it now.
Click on the little arrow next to your user name in the blue bar and select "your profile".
I see comments over 9 months old from people asking for a way to deactivate coach and/or be able to see their level progress. Along with vocabulary list, it is yet another unresolved major problem. I love duolingo but it seems the site is dying.
I positively hate the coach feature... I cannot see the level I am at, and instead of the good old bar, I have some odd circle. Please add a 'turn off' button for coach!
As much as I would like to get the level progress bar back, I'm pretty sure you can't.
It doesn't matter if I get the progress bar back, I just want to turn off my coach
There are several workarounds to solve that, they are mostly browser-dependent. Just google around a bit.
I have done several lesson at least lesson9 to lesson 15 of the thirty lessons today on level 4 future in spanish and my xps are now still 13 and I cannot get bye nd that and I should have at least over 60 but no go I am distraught
Do at least one lesson every day. Stick with it. Before long you'll have more xp and lingots than you know what to do with. As a bonus, you might improve your Spanish.
I actually like the coach, but I fear that due to so many people not liking it, it will vanish.