Translation:You all drink the water.
It used to be until they switched to Lei. I have learned pretty much all the Italian I know from operas, and back then, voi was the formal.
I went to one language site that used the American Southern y'all for plural you which I liked. But this is the first language on Duo which uses the all at all to express plural you. I do think it is helpful, but the Southern form might be preferable so that people won't be tempted to translate the all directly. I am not from the South, but it is a useful parallel
- io = I
- tu = you (you singular)
- lui/lei = he/she ("Lei" also as formal "tu", for both genders)
- noi = we (I+other people)
- voi = you (you+other people) (you all)
- loro = they (he/she+other people)
"you all" is used at the early stages to differentiate "tu" from "voi".
Later "tu" and "voi" will always be translated as "you" (without "all").
if the context doesn't provide enough information, both will be accepted
No, nor is there one between loro they and Loro you plural formal. It seems strange to us, but actually German is even worse. They use sie for both she and they (with a different conjugation) and Sie is the formal you, both singular and plural which is conjugated like sie for they.
This conversation has gone.rather far afield from.the Italian that it started with I could.no longer reply to the latest comments. The Spanish references started as what appears to have been a mistake and then took on a life of its own I hope the point is the use of the various forms of you in Italian If there is someone who.has native speaker input into the use of the formal versus informal address But one thing that I am.pretty sure.of is, although change.is a part.of.language, the ways that.Italian changes is probably not going to be parallel to how Spanish.changed.as it came and spread pretty much throughout the Americas
That is absolutely wrong. Tu (tú in Spanish) is pretty universally the word for you INFORMAL singular in all major Romance languages (French, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian and Spanish) There are relationships you can see among some of the other subject pronouns, but none are as consistent as tu. As mentioned above voi is plural.
In "classical" Italian, egli, ella, essi and esse are the subject forms of the 3rd persons (he, she, masculine and feminine they), while lui, lei and loro are the object forms (him, her, them). But the latter have been colloquially used as subject since around the 14th century, with grammarians writing against it since the 16th; nowadays instead they're generally considered the norm, with the former relegated in literary or official contexts. The Crusca has an interesting QA article (in Italian) with more info.
They are archaic and literary forms that you'll hardly encounter in modern Italian text.
egli => lui
essa => lei
essi => loro
esse => loro
As you can see, essi and esse*, which were gender-specific, both merged into loro**, which doesn't change for gender.
You should not have been downvoted, cade1234561135, because you are clarifying 1) that "bevete" is the plural "you are" in Italian, and 2) that sweater-strypes was right in one respect when she wrote that "bevete" takes a plural subject pronoun, and wrong in another respect when she mistakenly identified a Spanish verb as a Spanish pronoun.
In Spanish, the familiar plural form of the subject pronoun "you" is "ustedes." Also, the formal plural form of "you drink" is "vosotros bebeís" in Spanish. Finally, the formal form of "you drink" is "ellos beben" in Spanish.
Because you received four downvotes when you should not have, I'm upvoting you and giving you a lingot.
Let me correct your comment so that others don't misunderstand. The correct statement would be Every verb has a differnt conjugation for each person, (first second and third person, singular and plural). There is no pronoun in this sentence and a conjunction is actually a different part of speech completely and also is not present here.
Déjame corregir tu comentario para que otros no se confundan. Cada verbo tiene una conjugación diferente para cada persona, (primera segunda y tercera persona, singular y plural). No hay pronombre en esta frase y una conjunción es en realidad en una categoría gramatical diferente y también no está presente aquí.
Examples of English CONJUNCTIONS (Esempi di CONGIUNZIONI inglesi:):
and = e, or = o, but = ma,
Example of an English CONJUGATION (Esempio di CONIUGAZIONE inglese):
Singular (Singolare): I see/vedo; you see/vedi; he, she, or it sees/lui, lei, o vede
Plural (Plurale): we see/vediamo; YOU* see/tutti; voi vedete; they see/vedono
- In English, the plural "you" means "all of you." (In inglese, il plurale "you" significa "tutti voi".)
You are correct, Jonas611711. Lui = he, and lei = she.
Also, I always downvote superfluous comments, such as those that say "grazie," etc., because when a thread expands to 150 comments, they become unnecessary and annoying to read. In my opinion, if people are grateful for the information you provide, then they should let you know by upvotes and/or lingots, whatever they can afford. ;^)
No. There are a few subject pronouns that are older but now mostly exist in formal writing, but everyone should learn them who will be reading Italian. They are
egli, esso – (he) ella, essa – (she) essi – (they – masculine) esse – (they – feminine)
I have also read that within Italy what we consider Italian is only one of the dominant dialects, but I don't know whether there is one which uses these still. I wouldn't be surprised if there were, however, since when I first started learning Italian, I found sites that used these INSTEAD of the ones we learn and others with both sets. But this link has them as simply formal written forms that we won't see much if at all.
As you said, not often used, but still used. "Esso, essa", have to be used if you talk about animals and things, usually not for people. "Essi, esse" can be used for people, animals and things. I often write... "essi" instead of "loro" or "egli" instead of "lui", or even "ella" (rarely), instead of "lei"... "Ella" is formal and is both, masculine and feminine, but it's dead and buried, we used "Lei"... learning them is not bad at all, because they are not dead yet... I don't know whether or not DL would accept them, because he doesn't know Italian yet, but all of them have to be accepted.
You have the normal, modern subject pronouns mixed with the classic ones that are mostly either regional or obsolete. On Duo, and in most modern language programs, you will see lui as he, lei as she and loro as they. essi, egli and ella are all among the more uncommon forms. Here is a link which discusses those and a couple more. Perhaps you will be able to translate the page into your own language which may help you understand better.
Ella is definitely Spanish as well, but ella does exist in Italian, although it is becoming obsolete. There are a whole set of classic subject pronouns that have mostly fallen into disuse, but you will hear them either regionally or formally. Here is an article discussing them.
Ella è decisamente spagnolo, ma ella esiste in italiano, anche se sta diventando obsoleto. Ci sono un intero gruppo di pronomi classici che sono per lo più caduti in disuso, ma li ascolterai sia a livello regionale che formale. Ecco un articolo che discute di loro.
It's not the first time I have stepped on a joke in these discussions, and I do apologize. But since the purpose of these discussions are more for learning and discussing language and less for jokes, although there is plenty of that, jokes have to be clearer and funnier to work in here. Bilingual partial puns don't really qualify. My father always said the pun was the lowest firm of humor. Of course my mother's jokes were mostly puns lol.
The issue is whThether it is capitalized or not. Duo doesn't spend too much time on the formal you in Italian, and I think there is some basis for that. But Italian does have both a singular and plural formal you. Depending on where you were, both in terms of Region and social context, you will probably have some need for it, although my impression is that Italian uses it less than the other western Romance languages. The singular formal you is Lei, the same as she, but capitalized. The plural formal you is Loro, the same as they, but capitalized. There is a unit on the tree called formal. If you haven't gotten that far, Duo will do a bit of explaining then. If you have completed it, you may want to review. It seems much more confusing than it works out to be, but it does take some getting used to. But you would be surprised how far context can take you, so that you don't even stop to wonder which was said. I have also noticed that Duo uses very flowery sounding language with the formal you, which may also be a clue. I don't have any real life Italian experience to talk about, though.
English is my native tongue. I don't know what Dora26502 means when she says "specified."
What I do know is that using the article is optional.
L'inglese è la mia lingua madre. Non so cosa significhi Dora26502 quando dice "specificato".
Quello che so è che l'utilizzo dell'articolo è facoltativo.
Italian is my third romance langue and I know that in french, 'bevete' would be the 'vous' form of the verb, which can either plural, or a more respectful/polite way of saying the singular 'you,' however in spanish the equivalent is 'vosotros' is only used in plural cases and then 'usted' is a word used for politeness. From what I gather, italian is siding with spanish on this, right? 'Bevete' can ONLY be used in plural circumstances? And if so is there word to say 'you' (like usted) politely? Thank you, and sorry for such a long-winded question.
"Bevete l'acqua!" could be the conjugation in the imperative form, so your translation is correct.
However, DL usually puts an exclamation mark (!) at the end of sentences in imperative form
in Italian it is sufficient to change intonation to have a different meaning
• bevete l'acqua = you (all) drink the water
• bevete l'acqua! = drink the water!
• bevete l'acqua? = do you (all) drink the water?
In the southern United States, where I am from, what we use in place of 'voi' is "y'all" which is a contraction of 'you' and 'all'.
It is similar to the Spanish 'vosotros', which is used mainly in Spain, not in other Spanish speaking countries, if I am correct.
Example: "Y'all forgot to lock the door" -addressing everyone in a group- vs. "You forgot to lock the door" -addressing a specific person-
Well comparing languages actually help you improve your language skills. Also, learning Spanish is helping me learn Portuguese and Italian. And it doesn't confuse me, and countless others, so I don't know where you are getting that information from. If you don't compare languages then how would you learn? You have to compare the words to get what you are trying to say in that other language. And if you could, please don't abbreviate 'you' as 'u' and put correct punctuation, because some people may be learning English and may get "confused."
P.s. You spelled totally wrong
Ok, thanks :) Do you have an example of a case in which they are not indistinguishable? I am trying to think of a parallel in french, but I am unable to think of a case where this is not so. (It works for all cases of present for the verb to drink (ex: "tu bois", "bois! or "nous buvons", "buvons!"), and also for other verbs like "nous marchons"->"marchons!", "nous mangeons" ->"mangeons!", and "nous lisons"-> "lisons!"
So I'm guessing that the "voi" that's supposed to be there is implied? In what kinds of instances is this acceptable in writing or speaking? For some reason I'm thinking in the imperative tense (telling someone what to do, giving commands), but I'm not one hundred percent sure...
It's pretty much always acceptable in Italian, in both reading and writing, and it's usually the most natural wording; the pronoun is mostly made explicit for emphasis. The imperative can actually have a subject too, in both English and Italian, as in "you shut up!": "tu stai zitto" (singular informal you) / "Lei stia zitto" (singular formal you) / "voi state zitti" (plural you). Again for emphasis.
"bevete" is the plural "you" present tense conjugation for "bere" = to drink
Each language uses the definite article a little differently and Italian uses it particularly often it seems to me. One of the uses is before "substances" So the presence of the definite article here does not indicate what it does in English and Italian will have different techniques to indicate a particular water. So we translate it without the "the" because our use of the English word the indicates a particular water but the Italian doesn't.
Here is a link discussing the way the definite article is used in Italian.
Bere is the infinitive so it is equivalent to to drink. Bevete is the present indicative Voi conjugation. Verbs in Italian are much more highly inflected than in English so with all the tenses, persons, moods, etc each verb has many forms and bere, as an irregular verb, has less predictable ones.
I certainly use you as plural myself almost exclusively. But I have to confess I do appreciate you all (or even y'all although I am not a Southerner) as a method for signaling which form to use. When I was having problems getting a good translation on Google for something, I have even input a Thou form to force a Tú translation. In language learning it is a tool more than a common usage.
Bevi is the tu form. Tu is familiar and singular. But most European languages have multiple forms of you. Informal and formal, singular and plural. Bevete is the voi conjugation. It is plural. This is where my experience with Italian gets thin, though. Duo teaches the capitalized form of she (Lei) as the formal singular you and capitalized form of they (Loro) as the formal plural you. But they don't drill them almost at all, and one user on here said that Bevete used to be formal. My understanding is they don't use the formal as much in Italian as much as in other European languages. So, at least to a great extent, you can function with tu as the singular and voi as the plural you. English lost its singular and plural familiar you forms hundreds of years ago (thou, ye). You Was originally formal, but both singular and plural, like the German Sie, but now it's the only you.
"Lei" can be translated as "she" or "you" (formal "tu"), and as a formal pronoun it is the only one taught by DL (Lei and all adjectives and pronouns deriving from it (Suo/a/oi/e, La, Le))
Until 100 years ago there were also "Voi" and "Loro" (nowadays n̶e̶v̶e̶r rarely used as formal forms).
• "Voi" > formal you (1 person)
• "Loro" > formal you (2+ people)
100 years is not a long time, so they are still used
I haven't seen much of either Lei or Loro on Duo, but I know that that's what Duo used to teach as the formal singular and plural of you. I know that because I have only learned Italian on Duo, unlike some of my other languages. I had done some research on the pronouns and found a somewhat confusing picture. I had assumed from what I learned, however, that Italian works similarly to Castilian Spanish and Portuguese, with 4 forms of you - informal and formal, singular and plural. Then some told me that voi used to be formal plural. But what seems to have been lost in all these other systems is the idea of a plural, familiar you. Was there really no plural familiar you, or perhaps was it more like French where vous was the formal singular form and the only plural that existed?
in theory, in italy there is a mix of both languages (spanish/french)
in practice, the only formal pronoun used is "Lei" (I have never found "Loro" or "Voi" on DL)
it is true that on DL you won't find sentences that use the formal form (except the specific section).
But if you try to translate the sentence "Lei beve", should be accepted: "she drinks" and "you drink" (if DL doesn't accept "formal you" you can report)
I believe you mean a "more conversant" or "colloquial" translation, as opposed to more accurate. Unfortunately, while Bevete l'aqua may be seen as directional ("all of you! Drink the water!") Grammatically etc, the matter is more complex, evidently. (I am far from an expert...just surrounded by family members who happen to be, heh.) Essentially, "Drink the water." Could refer to one person, or any number of people, based on context, and the unusual nature of the english language and its nonphonetic grammar. EG: "James glared about the table, flicking his gaze at each of them one at a time. Finally, his restless eyes came upon the three at the end, and he snapped out, 'You! Drink the water!'" If that makes any sort of sense. That is to say, "Drink the water." is also singular, potentially. So, in learning a romance language, with phonetic grammar rules, it becomes, "you (all implied, but not necessary) drink the water." And all its various other forms. As the word drink is not a simple word in Latin OR Norse. (Bere, the root for bevete...iirc) pardon the WoT. Ahem. Buona Fortuna! ;) ps: Pardon also any mistakes please. Typing without a net here, hah. Rereading a dozen times can only catch so much.
Actually the most likely translation to English is probably a statement: "You are drinking the water" (refering to plural you). But the gerund form (are drinking) can confuse people as Italian uses the gerund diferently and a lot less often than English does - English uses it for present tense all the time - so that's probably why the translation is listed as "You all drink the water"
Or it could also be translated to "Are you drinking water" if you said the Italian sentence with a questioning intonation.
Not to mention the debate we could have about whether it's necessary to include "the" before water when translating this sentence from Italian to English. (I'm not going to have this debate now - but a professional translator would probably consider context of the whole paragraph then decide)
But the fact that the same sentence can translate to several different things is very difficult and confusing for beginners so they (Duolingo) have to chose the best and simplest translation (given that they don't explain how things can have many possible translations like my Italian classes did)
Question: Why didn't they include the "Voi" before "Bevete"? If conjugated verbs tell us who is doing the action (in this case "bevete" meaning "you all drink"), when do we include the "voi" (or noi or lorro or io or tu or lui/lei) before the verb? Is "lei beve" (she drinks) or "noi beviamo" (we drink) grammatically correct?
Generally in Italian you include the pronoun (voi, noi, lui, lei, etc) before the verb only for emphasis "YOU drink the water" or if it is necessary for clarity.
Yes, lei beve and noi beviamo are grammatically correct - noi is not necessary for clarity but could be included for emphasis.
Yes, that is correct - see the explanation here: http://italian.about.com/library/fare/blfare113a.htm Just as in Spanish and other Latin languages it sounds somewhat unnatural to include the subject pronouns in normal speech when these are not required.
If addressing a group of people, especially in a non-personal setting like from a podium, you all is quite common and no one thinks about it. Certainly the y'all from the Southern US is only a regional dialect standard. But many language sites do use this convention to help English speakers recognize the difference between the singular and the plural you forms. On Duo some languages do and some do not. It is helpful to many but people learning a third language from English as a second language can get confused depending on their first language. But Duo does need various tools to signal what answer they are looking for in order for them to limit possible correct answers that have to be programmed in.
I have heard you all even from a speaker of RP British English in the right context. "I'm sure you all realise that this plan is not practicable. We need a better one". Most of the time, however, you all in the UK runs the risk of being sniggered at by students and criticised by teachers. A pity, because in Duolingo, at least, it is very useful. Better that resorting to thou and ye.
But in the sentence "I'm sure you all realise that this plan is not practicable," the word "all" indicates that there are no exceptions - everyone in the group being addressed realises that the plan is not practicable. It is not there to indicate the plural. That would be clear from the fact that the speaker is addressing more than one person. Of course, in the Duolingo sentences, we don't have such a context. However, inserting the word "all" leads to some people thinking that they have to translate it, particularly if the "brand" of English they speak doesn't use the word "all" in the way people in Southern states of the US seem to. Perhaps it would be better to insert "singular" or "plural" in brackets after the word "you", to indicate which Italian pronoun is needed.
That's funny because when I use Google translate they will often use the formal you when I want the informal. I have even seen them put in the wrong possessive pronoun to match the subject. In those cases I have had to adjust my sentence by using thou and thine to get what I needed. Of course they don't get you all right either, but I do think I got it to work with y'all once.
It is impossible to tell whether it is imperative as the voi forms are identical. So in a practical way you can view this sentence as You drink water, you are drinking water (since the Italian present tense will often be appropriately translated to the English progressive except for Duo's tense for tense convention), or Drink water. These sentences really require situational context for any definitive translation.
Saying you all instead of you is a technique some people use to indicate the plural you, since English does not have a plural you, but English speakers do say you all (or regionally y'all) to indicate multiple yous, if it is otherwise ambiguous. It isn't required and is translated only by using the plural you conjugation.
I actually appreciate y'all instead of you all, even though I am not from the South and never use it. But it is an example of a group of English speakers who do differentiate between the singular and plural you regularly. You all is used occasionally, but not commonly.
First of all, if you thought this sentence was imperative, you should not translate it as you drink water but rather drink water. The most notable aspect of the English imperative is the lack of the subject pronoun (Sit down, go away, have some more, etc). But this sentence is introduced in the course long before they deal with any imperative sentences. The discussion of the imperative probably comes mostly from people just beginning the course who have a background in Spanish as it does look like a Spanish command with the Tú reflexive pronoun attached. The all in this sentence is simply used from time to time to indicate that it is the plural you that is used. I have even seen other sites which routinely use the southern y'all. It is simply a mechanism to convey a difference that exists on Spanish and other languages but not in English. We do sometimes, although certainly not always, use it when addressing many people.
Italian, like Spanish, routinely omits subject pronouns. The conjugation of the verb often make them essentially irrelevant. Bevete could only be the present indicative voi conjugation. But even if there is possible ambiguitiy, any particular conversation or context might provide the key, so even with third person forms it is often omitted. It is never actually incorrect to include the subject pronoun, but if it is not an ambiguous case you will sound overly emphatic to a native speaker if you include them as emphasis is the reason a native speaker might use them when the meaning is otherwise clear. But you should not expect to hear them much. Duo probably uses the third person pronouns more often then you will find them in normal speech, but that is just because they provide no context. If omitted, Duo should accept translations with all the possible subject pronouns for that conjugation, although I have seen them slip up, at least in the Spanish course.
As for a vocabulary list, that is not how Duo teaches. They teach by modeling, and that can be difficult if you have no formal background in the language. It is also true with grammar lessons, especially if you use one of the apps instead of the website. I recommend using a good dictionary and grammar site or at least googlling grammar questions. There are a lot of free resources out there. I have online dictionaries available all the time and will often use another tab or window to look up a word in the middle of a question set. Most of us are sort of hard wired to consider that cheating, but unless you do Duo as part of some course that specifically disallows that, who are you cheating if you are learning?
Actually that is not quite true. There are multiple circumstances under which we might be talking about a specific water. My children are eating and I have given them glasses of water, but they want juice. I tell them to drink the water and then I may give them juice. Or you are talking about drinking the water that comes from a particular reservoir, etc. Italian cannot distinguish between Drink the water and drink water. Both sentences would translate the same. So the only issue is whether Duo accepts both translations, which it used to at least. Since Duo sentences have no context, we don't know if a particular water is being referred to.
All doesn't actually appear in the sentence, and Duo should definitely also accept just you. But this is one of the very early sentences and Duo wants to make it clear to users that bevete is the voi conjugation and therefore is only used when there is more than one "you" involved. If this is expressed in English, which it mostly is not, it is generally expressed as you all, or in the Southern US as y'all. In some language courses out there you will actually find y'all used quite a bit. It sounds strange ti non Southerners (which includes me) but does have the advantage of really being the only English language dialect (at least that I know) that does consistently differentiate between singular and plural you. You will see you all in English clues when they want to limit your posible answers to this plural you, because normally when translating from English to Italian they accept all four possible forms.
In most cases we don't use you all for the plural you in English. We tend to say you when talking to either one or multiple people. While the Southern Y'all is routinely used, in standard English you all is mostly used when addressing a large group of people to clarify that all the members of that group are included. Duo should accept either You or you all, but actually the all is mostly added so we remember which you we are using, since for the most part you cannot tell from an English sentence with you whether the sentence is adresses to one person or two or more people.
I have seen the Southern you all written as y'all for years. But admittedly the Texas version has more of the W Sound in it than other dialects in the American South. I am personally not from the South, but I have actually appreciated it when I have seen y'all in language programs representing the plural you. It helps people understand that the plural you is used without having the learner wanting to insert the word all into the sentence. The South has the only dialect that I know which actually routinely uses a plural form in English. Most English dialects, both British and American, will occasionally add all maybe guys, but normally uses just you for both singular and plural. Of course I guess I wouldn't notice if a Southerner were to use a plural you instead of y'all, but certainly in all expressions of invitation or hospitality, y'all seems standard to me.
Yes it actually is not particularly common to see you all. A teacher might say you all to her class, but mostly we just say you. But English speakers learning a foreign language get used to the formal/informa informal you but often forget the plural you unless they are from the south. Adding it just helps new speakers remember. But Duo should never require it. I needed it here actually because I speak Spanish as well and when I first learned this it looked like a reflexive Spanish imperative. But then I learned how to conjugate Italian verbs lol.
Absolutely. Since the conjugation markers are quite distinctive, all subject pronouns are routinely omitted. Even lui and lei which use the same conjugation are often omitted because they can be inferred from the context. Very often there is only one he or she that you are currently talking about. Subject pronouns will be used if clarity is needed, and will also for emphasis. Duo uses subject pronouns much more often then you will probably find in real speech or even writing, especially in the early leasons. This is something that comes from Latin. The only Latin I know is the phrase attributed to Julius Caesar, veni, vidi, vici, I came, I saw, I conquered. This same custom of omitting subject pronouns is shared by Spanish and to a much lessor degree by Portuguese. French does use subject pronouns.
That's the way to take a side! The bottom line is that Italian, along with many other languages distinguish between a singular and plural you. English doesn't by conjunction, but if an English speaker wants to demonstrate that the you is plural, he will add all, although it isn't grammatically necessary. In the American South it is as close to a rule as anywhere with y'all, but you will hear you all quite a bit from people speaking to groups. So while you drink water is a valid translation here, if I wanted to make sure that the English was translated so as to include a plural you I would say You all drink water. Otherwise both bevi l'acqua and the formal Lei beve l'acqua would be acceptable translations.
Yes. The Italian imperative forms are pretty easy compared to some languages. The tu form imperative uses the infinitive and the voi uses the same form as the indicative. Of course this sentence was introduced in the course before the imperative is taught, so the original intended answer was You drink water referring to a plural you or you all.
It isn't actually there. You all or even the Southern US y'all is occasionally used in language courses, especially early on, to help the student understand the difference between the singular and plural you that exist in many languages. Interestingly, even though I am not a Southerner and never say y'all, that actually is the one that I understand best because they really add the all consistently to indicate the plural you while most of the rest of the English speaking world will mostly just say you. I generally only hear you all when someone is addressing a whole group like a class, and even that is only occasionally.
In Italian, the subject pronouns can always be omitted. The voi, therefore, is in the conjugation of the verb. There is never a grammatical requirement for the subject pronoun, but because there are multiple possibilities for third person conjugations you will see those more often, but with real world context even those are mostly omitted. The other reason to include them is for emphasis. But in a normal conversation in Italian you will hear very few, so you have to become very sensitive to the conjugation. This is especially true because Italian does have constructions where the direct object can precede the verb.
No it is the present indicative voi form. If I had to guess, I would say you probably know Spanish. This looks like the Tú imperative of a reflexive verb. But all regular voi conjugations in the present end in te. But for some reason this one seems to get a lot of people. At least it got me when I first started.
You notice, Linda, that you had to add a word in the Italian to say what you wanted to say in English in Italian. That obviously is an issue. But the "all" is actually not required at all in English to be a correct and direct translation. They are only using it like y'all, as an English version of the plural you. But most of the time we just say you, whether singular or plural, except in the South where y'all really does work for voi in most cases. But I have never seen Duo use you all in a situation where they either require or even expect the all to be translated. Of course if I take a language that doesn't have a plural you, that might change. But I was actually happy to see the you all here. This sentence comes early in the course, but coming from Spanish my first thought was imperative with an attached object, and I know others have made the same mistake.
Bevi is the tu form, informal singular. Bevete is the voi form. Informal plural (y'all). There is also a formal singular and plural, but these are used less in Italian compared to other European languages. They are Lei and Loro, always capitalized to distinguish them from lei and loro (she and they, respectively). The capitalization issue is similar to the German Sie as opposed to sie. The Italian formal also seems more flowery somehow than in other languages)
You misunderstand. Voi is the subject pronoun for bevete. It could be voi bevete, except the subject pronouns in Italian are not generally used when the form of the verb is distinct to that subject pronoun. That is true in for most subject pronouns except third person ones. You can use a subject pronoun for emphasis as well. Even third person subject pronouns are not generally required for clarity in context because it is mostly clear who you would be talking about.
The first one. You have to remember that the reason you can omit the subject pronoun in Italian is that the conjugation of the verb signals the appropriate subject pronoun whether you use it or not. So bevi is tu bevi, and will always be seen by an Italian speaker as different from voi bevete. I suspect that if you said Bevi tutti l'acqua to an Italian, they would simply assume that you made a grammatical error and meant Bevi tutta l'acqua, Drink all the water.
It does take a while for English speakers to get used to the concept of the plural you, but it is very common in Indo-European languages. In fact, English used to have it as well. When we used thou as the familiar you, the plural was ye. (Think about the court crier "Hear ye, hear ye" or from the King James Bible, "Judge not lest ye be judged"). English, like French and German, only had one form for the formal you, both singular and plural. But Italian, Spanish and some other languages have both singular and plural forms for the formal you as well. From what I understand and certainly from how Duo presents it, the Italian formal you is not used as much, and it does certainly seem that the world as a whole is becoming less formal. But you will have to learn Lei and Loro. In addition to meaning she and they respectively, they are used for the Singular and plural formal you. As such they are always capitalized, but that doesn't always help because they are quite often the first words of the sentence. The formal constructions have other elements that sound quite flowery as well. But again, a native Italian speaker would not equate adding tutti to Lei to make Loro.
I got that off of Google Translator, the tutti thing. Translator is not good doing the "You" plural form it seems. I took Spanish, so I get the pronoun thing, however, I don't speak Spanish everyday, haven't for many years. I assume, like everywhere else, each region of Italy may have it's own dialect or way of saying certain things, like Sicily compared to Rome. The main problem, as you pointed out, here in the USA we do not form sentences with the same grammar for the most part. Since the US is a newer Country, and now especially, do not speak the "King's English" so to speak. This is why most kids dislike Shakespeare, I know I did. LOL. Thanks
Google translate can be horrible. I have even had to use thou and thy to get them to use the informal you consistently, as I have seen them mix up the two between the subject pronoun and possessive adjective. I actually am not familiar with the various dialects of Italy. I am learning Italian mostly because it was always the language that I found most acoustically pleasant (if that phrase works). But I have read that standard Italian, although the language taught in schools in Italy, is not really even close to a spoken standard. From what I understand, what is spoken in Italy is broken into several dialect and a couple of essentially closely related romance languages like Spanish and catalán. But I would be pretty sure that none would equate adding tutti to a tu form with using a vos form.
Because of the -ete ending, it is the plural of you. Here's a website that lists Italian verb declensions: https://www.iwillteachyoualanguage.com/learn/italian/italian-tips/italian-verb-conjugation
The "all" represented in this sentence doesn't need to be there. It is just a way that Duo has of signaling the plural form vos. There is you all or y'all or you guys and various other things that we say in English to signal we are talking to more than one person. But we don't have to signal that at all in English, and most dialects don't most of the time. That's actually why I sort of prefer the y'all option, although I am not from the South and don't use it. But the fact that it looks more like one word and it does seem to be used most consistently in that dialect, seems to make it more appropriate
If they marked your answer wrong for You drink the water or You drink water, report it. The all is just an aid to English speakers to remind them that we are talking about a plural you. On some sites I have seen them use the Southern American contraction y'all. Duo doesn't use that, but has accepted it from me. I am not from the South and would never use it myself, but I do recognize this as a legitimate example of a modern English dialect that uses a plural you. I think it is better because people may be surprised to see it, but don't generally wonder about the all part per se.
Absolutely. Italian doesn't require, and generally doesn't use, subject pronouns. Even the ones that may be potentially ambiguous, generally aren't in context. You will see them included for clarity sometimes, though, and often for emphasis. But Italian verbs are highly inflected, meaning their form is specific to the tense and the person.
Roy, Yes the all is just meant to signify plural. Voi isn't plural or formal, it's both plural and informal. Duo doesn't always do this, but they do tend to more early on. This is actually one time I prefer to see the Southern y'all, only because it looks less like an extra word.
This is one of the earliest sentences in the course that teaches a voi form. Duo just translated it as "you all" to make it clear this was a plural you form. It's not something that would probably have been said by most English speakers, except maybe in the US South as y'all.
Well a better way to say it is that (tu) bevi is you familiar singular and (voi) bevete is you all/y'all familiar. You only had included one of the subject pronouns. Both conjugations are unique so both subject pronouns will likely be omitted in Italian unless you are emphasizing YOU. There are also the formal forms Lei and Loro. These sound exactly like the forms for she and they and only can be recognized in writing by the capital letter. Duo does teach these, but barely. The sharp contrast in how well those forms are taught compared to similar forms in other languages does suggest that Italian doesn't use formal address as much as other languages do.
I don't speak Latin, but I do speak Spanish. When I first started Italian and came to this exercise I assumed that this was a tú (tu) command using a reflexive verb. But it's the normal voi form. But in this case it is the same form for both the indicative and the imperative mood. This sentence was introduced long before Duo would present the imperative. When teaching the Italian imperative, where many of the forms are actually the same, Duo generally either gives the prompt in English or add an exclamation point to show it. Without context that's the only way to know.
Is there anything I can help you with here, Hudson? Coming to the Italian course with a background in Spanish, I was confused here because this looked like a Spanish command, but that's just because I wasn't familiar with the voi conjugation. Assuming your native language is English, it will take a while to get used to the idea of distinguishing a singular "you" from a plural "you", but that's common in many languages. Personally I prefer using y'all to you all. I am not from the US South, but y'all does represent a dialectic English form of a plural you. But as you get further in the course, voi will mostly just appear as "you". It will take some time to get used not seeing the actual subject pronoun, but that's the norm. The conjugations are mostly unique enough to make them essentially redundant, and even when they aren't unique, the situational context will make the subject pronoun obvious enough to omit most of the time. There's a lot to learn in a new language, but romance languages do provide a lot of help with cognates. Almost 60% of English words come from Latin through French or directly from Latin. And you probably already know many Italian food words lol.
Duo only uses you all for voi in the very early lessons. It's a common convention for teaching the difference between a singular and plural you. I actually prefer using y'all, although I never do in English. But it does look more like a single pronoun and stops people looking for the "all". But Duo learners come from all backgrounds in terms of their language experience, and those who haven't already encountered the concept of a plural you generally find it quite difficult. It's more difficult for most than simply formal and informal because we do use different speech with different people based on familiarity anyway. But if Duo is to be believed, formal address is dying out in Italian more than other European languages. At least they drill it much much less. But remembering that you have to say it differently if you are inviting someone to dinner alone or inviting them and their spouse takes a big mental adjustment.
This is an indicative observation. The form bevete is actually the same in the imperative, but this is an introductory sentence on Duo. The Italian imperative, like the English, never includes the subject pronoun, but since the subject pronoun is mostly omitted in Italian anyway, that's hardly telling. When I got to this sentence in Italian the first time, I also thought that this was imperative, but that was because, coming from Spanish, that the te ending which is characteristic of the voi present tense conjugation, was an attached reflexive pronoun. But I am pretty sure this is essentially also a command. But Italian uses a lot of exclamation points for their imperative because it can be otherwise impossible to distinguish an imperfect form if it doesn't attach an object pronoun, which this expression doesn't. But, whether or not it's the last word on the subject, the preferred answer on this page will always show from the translation whether it is the indicative or the imperative being drilled.
You're writing French in an Italian course for English speakers. To answer your question in English, they added "all" to indicate the conjugation was for voi, which is plural and familiar. Some people say you all, or y'all in the American South, to indicate they are talking to more than one person, but it shouldn't be required. Duo just does it here as an introduction.
The speaking exercises have been buggy as long as I have been on Duo. Personally, I have them turned off in settings. Since they do require sending sound files over the internet, these exercises are partially dependent on the users equipment, their internet connection, and other factors somewhat beyond Duo's control. I don't know if they can fix it easily, but they have thusfar not been able to. Not only do they reject good pronunciation, they also sometimes accept bad pronunciation. If you have the ability to sit next to an Italian very often, I would definitely turn off the speaking exercises and just use a real person to help with pronunciation. Even at it's best, this tool can only accept or reject your pronunciation, not guide you to improve it. In my experience, even without input from a native speaker, must users can improve their speaking simply by doing so often. Reading the exercises outloud every time with be more helpful than this tool.
With all the confusion I see in the comments, I think it would be better for Duo to use the traditional way of showing singular and plural in English when teaching a foreign language namely, 'you (sing)' for one person and 'you (pl)' for more than one when there is no context.
With all the confusion I see in the comments I think it would be better if Duo used the traditional way of indicating singular and plural for 'you' when teaching a foreign language namely, 'you (sing)' for one person and 'you (pl)' for more than one when there is no context
Italian has different conjugations for most subject pronouns, which is why you don't have to include most subject pronoun in sentences because the verb form essentially provides the information. The only ones that aren't unique to one subject pronoun are the third person singular and plural forms, but the context will nevertheless mostly make those unnecessary as well. So bevete is only the form for voi, the plural you in Italian. The form for noi is beviamo. In this early exercise, Duo translates this as you all to underscore the fact that it is plural. Our English you is both singular and plural as well as formal and informal. Italian has different forms there, although the formal you is used less in Italian than in other languages. I prefer to think of it as y'all, although I'm not from the South, because that is an example of one commonly used English plural you that seems like one word. Otherwise you say you all or you guys or something if you have to clarify that it applies to everyone and not just one you. Most of the time we don't say that, and in later lessons this all disappears as well.
That couldn't have been the issue. Duo strippers the punctuation from all the answers before they judge them because their answer database has no punctuation. Either you missed another error, or it was a Duo fluke. Duo flukes probably happened less than one time out of ten million answers given, but that still means it happens to someone every day on Duo.
This exercise is one of the earliest exercise in the course, which means it's still teaching the basic meaning of bere (there is no verb bevere). And it's also much too early to deal with the imperative at all. But Duo especially segregates the imperative in its Italian lessons because the affirmative imperative forms are generally the same as the indicative forms, so there have to be clear indications that the imperative form is being used. That generally uses either translations from English or exclamation points in the Italian. I thought this was an imperative when I first saw it, because I was using Spanish concepts that assumed the "te" was a reflexive pronoun attached to a tu command rather then the normal voi conjugation. But if Duo wanted the imperative, this would read Bevete l'acqua! It's a convention that simplifies everyone's understanding of the sentence.
This is a early exercise using voi, so they use all to make sure that you understand that voi conjugations refers to a plural you, in other words more than one person. They drop this convention rather quickly, but this is probably the first exercise that shows a voi conjugation without including voi itself. I think most Americans would understand it better as y'all, even if they aren't from the South, but I don't know whether British English speakers or certainly second language speakers would understand that.
Bevete is the voi conjugation of the Italian verb bere to drink. Voi is the informal plural you. In English, the only way to distinguish between singular and plural you forms is to add all to indicate the plural. Of course this is not required and not used much except in the South in the US as y'all. But you will see it more often in language courses for languages that have different forms for singular and plural you. Italian has four ways to say you, tu, voi, Lei, and Loro. Tu and voi are informal and Lei and Loro represent the formal you when capitalized, although they are she and they respectively when in lowercase.
It is different. To a Spanish speaker it looks as if the te is the reflexive pronoun attached to the end of a command, but actually bevete is simply the conjugated voi form of the Italian verb bere, to drink.
No. Y'all is Southern American. You all is not standard in any part of America I have been and is only used in circumstances which I don't believe are unique to America like, You all will receive a copy of the program materials mailed to your house. Duo doesn't really deal much with either. I did use some site which used y'all to signal it wanted you to answer in the plural. I am not from the South and even have my own Northern prejudices, but I did appreciate knowing which they wanted. In a real world situation it would almost always be obvious which to use, and the necessity of programming for both answers because of the relative ambiguities of our "you" They also always specified familiar as they also used vosotros.
You'll find your claim to be rather erroneous, especially with your clear experience in language learning. "Y'all" is used in many lessons that precipitate back to the English dialect. The point is to learn a language, not fixate on the exact grammatical ways of communing in English, whether or not "Y'all" appears as crude or unorthodox it is used in many language learning factions, not just Duolingo, it's even taught this way in school. The point in which you stop fixating on the mutinous details regarding language learning the faster you will learn the language. If you stop to ponder intricacies like this one you are missing the point of learning the language. You understand what "y'all" is intended to mean, right? Then why complain. Besides, this is not an exam, so you do not need to worry about getting one question wrong because you can do it over again, the way to learn something is through trying and failing until you accept that you will continue to fail. Do pardon if this comment comes off as rather brash, but it needed to be said.
In languages like German and French which do not have progressive tenses Duo accepts and encourages translation of the present tense to the English present progressive. In languages like Italian and Spanish and Portuguese which do have progressive tenses, Duo wants you to translate tense for tense. This is simply a convension and is not meant to imply that the present progressive is not a valid translation for the present tense in Italian. The progressive tenses in these languages is only used to emphasize that the action is progressive or continuous so that the present tense is still used most often. But this convention simply allows Duo to drill what it wants to be drilling.