"Mes amies ne les ont pas aimées."
Translation:My friends did not like them.
No, no difference at all.
In real life, if you want to be sure that the gender of your friends is understood in speech, you can say "mes amies femmes" or "mes amis hommes".
You should be able to use "Mes amis ne les ont pas aimés." It sounds the same.
I wrote this and it wasn't accepted - I will report it I guess - I don't understand why it has to be mes amies, not mes amis.
You are correct. From the context there is no way to tell if the things they liked were a masculine or feminine noun.
The only difference is that 'amies' is for feminine only, but you can't even tell the difference most of the time, unless a stupid American (not all Americans are stupid!) is using Google Translate really badly.
I have had to disable the audio, since the new "homophone filter" does not seem to be ready yet. So, this sentence will not be dictated anymore.
This is a pretty difficult section for Duo to be arbitrarily marking answers wrong because the range of likely correct answers hasn't been programmed in.
In this example, it is the exclusion of the masculine in the French translation of the English sentence. Thee is nothing in the English that requires amies over amis
Again, in this same example, it is assigning feminine to the past participle when the direct object is les which is referring to something absent. You yourself said that the direct object was gender neutral based on the information available and that either masculine or feminine was acceptable.
It's not a big deal but it does add a little confusion to an already difficult lesson.
Northernguy, pls let me explain:
This sentence obviously lacks proper context (what's new?).
Therefore, we have to plan for all possibilities, because one learner or another would legitimately believe that missing variants are "correct".
So, also remembering that some sentences come in dictation as well, this is what the system accepts:
My friends did not like them:
Mes [amis/amies] ne les [aimaient pas/ont pas aimés/ont pas aimées].
And last but not least "not explicitely gendered" does not mean "neutral"... in French! ;-)
That is what my point is. Duo requires feminine in this example. Or at least it did a while ago. Students struggling to figure out whether the past participle takes it status from the subject or the object aren't helped when their otherwise correct answer is marked wrong because the feminine is required without any supporting context.
I was using neutral in the sense of not displaying a set of characteristics, not in the equally valid sense of not being able to sustain that set.
My comments were directed more to those students who might be thinking they will never figure it out. If they are wondering...what about this English sentence requires feminine in French?........ The correct answer is ......nothing.
I agree fully. There is nothing in the sentence that indicates amies should be correct over amis. Hate losing a heart for that! Reported.
Your comment is valid for dictation only.
As I said, the issue of homophones is not an easy one, so we have to be patient until the system can recognize variants.
Why is "aimées" used rather than "aimé?" I thought you didn't change the gender and number of the verb with passe composé constructions using avoir. Is it because of the "les?"
the rule is that with auxiliary avoir, the past participle remains invariable except if the direct object is placed before the verb.
in this sentence the direct object is "les", which is plural masculine or plural feminine.
so 2 translations: mes amies ne les ont pas aimés / aimées.
I would guess that it is because while some English speakers do use "girlfriends" for "friends who happen to be girls," there's too much potential for confusion with the word "girlfriends," meaning "female romantic partners," and only one of them is standard to all English speakers.
I'm completely confused.. I thought "aimer" would become "aimé." Also, why is the "les" inside the negation construction with the verb? Is this normal?
The "les" is inside the negation construction with the verb because that is where the object pronoun goes. It is not only normal, but required.
When the auxiliary verb is "avoir," the past participle (aimé) is invariable, EXCEPT if the direct object is placed before the verb (as it is when the d.o. is a pronoun), which it is in this case. If that is true, the past participle agrees with the direct object (as opposed to the subject, which is what it agrees with if the auxiliary verb is "être"). Because it is impossible to tell from this sentence whether the direct object "les" is masculine or feminine, the past participle could correctly be either "aimés" or "aimées."
Thanks. I did some digging and found the grammar notes for passe compose and a helpful website and book. So complicated! So many things to remember at once. It's very overwhelming. I was hoping they would take it in babysteps. Silly me. Still, I press on.
Would 'love' be acceptable in this sentence? As 'them' could refer to people.
"love" and "like" are both accepted here, since we don't know what "they" represents.
The French speaker does not make the liaison when saying "les ont". Instead of "lesont" he says "les ont".
I’m having a hard time figuring out these participles. May I impose on one of you that understand this? Please tell me if the participles in these two sentences are correct, and if not, why not. Thank you. “Mesdames, vous êtes arrivées. Oui messieurs, nous sommes arrivées”
The first is correct, since the sentence is addressed to a group of women. The second isn't, since the presence of even one man in the group would require the masculine form.
Thanks so much for your response. Your answer has me a little puzzled. What is it that suggests that men are in the group of arrivals? Men are addressed, but they don’t have to be in the group to be spoken to. Again Thank you
'Messieurs' means 'gentlemen'; if you were speaking to a mixed group you would say 'Messieurs, dames' ('ladies and gentlemen'). Not sure what you mean when you say that men don't have to be in the group to be spoken to--? The only reason to use such an expression is to address those people specifically. Hope this helps!
"Messieurs, dames" is incorrect. When addressing a group, please use "Messieurs, Mesdames".
The men do not have to be part of "nous" to be spoken to. There is a group of women (established in the first sentence), and a group of men ("messieurs"). One of the women from the group is speaking to the men, about herself and the other women.
The second one, in context, is also correct. The second sentence is being spoken by a member of the group of women from the first sentence, to a group of men, but about herself and the other women. So the feminine form is correct. (None of the "messieurs" is included in "nous.")
Thank you very much. I have searched a lot of resources to find the answer to this question. This discussion arena obviously has a lot of talent. That is nice to know.
With the auxiliary "être", the past participle behaves like an adjective and therefore it agrees with the subject:
- il est beau
- il est arrivé
- elle est belle
- elle est arrivée
- ils sont beaux
- ils sont arrivés
- elles sont belles
- elles sont arrivées
- nous sommes beaux (all men or a mix of men and women) / nous sommes belles (all women)
- nous sommes arrivés (all men or a mix of men and women) / nous sommes arrivées (all women)
Nice break down. Thank you. Is this the same for the auxiliary verb “avoir”?
i found you said this three years ago: 'With auxiliary "avoir", when the direct object is placed in front of the verb, the past participle agrees with that direct object.' is the direct object ever after the verb, and if it is, how do the participles break down? i you don't mind sir
Direct objects are often after the verb. Noun direct objects nearly always come after the verb (I say "nearly always" because there's always some really creative/poetic sentence structure that someone will pop up with as an exception, but in general, noun objects go after the verb). Object pronouns go before the verb.
If the auxiliary verb is avoir and the direct object is after the verb, there is no number/gender reflected in the past participle; it's in its base form (which is also the masculine singular form).
Please excuse my burden. I am trying to work this out. Any help would be appreciated. Is this correct? ”quand je suis devenu une femme, je suis devenu moi-même” (When I became a woman, I became myself). If this isn't the correct translation, what is?
It is correct if you are a man who changed genders. Yet, in that case, the second "devenue" should be in the feminine (logically, once you have become a woman, you are a woman and the adjectives describing yourself should be in feminine).
If you are describing what happened when you, now a woman, moved from a child/teen to a woman, both "devenue" should be in the feminine.
Thank you. I didn't think it was right. I am having a hard time finding anything that translates properly. Do you have any suggestions? I am trying to build a study set with passé compose. You wouldn’t happen to know of a good translation resource would you. Not necessarily free.
The only good (and free) translation resource I know is to be found on Duolingo's forums!
Reflexive pronouns must be placed before the verb:
- je me lave (I am washing), tu te sens bien (you are feeling fine), il se prépare (he is getting ready), elle se brosse les cheveux (she is brushing her hair), nous nous habillons (we are getting dressed), vous vous taisez (you are keeping silent), ils se regardent dans le miroir (they are watching themselves in the mirror), elles se maquillent (they are making up)...
”quand je suis devenu une femme, je suis devenu moi-même” (When I became a woman, I became myself). - isn't "myself" here a reflexive pronoun?
"moi" is a stressed/disjunctive pronoun and "moi-même" is a reinforced stressed pronoun (pronom personnel accentué renforcé).
Stressed pronouns are used in a variety of cases, excluding reflexive cases: https://www.thoughtco.com/french-stressed-pronouns-1368932
The reflexive pronouns are : me, te, se, nous, vous, se. They are used when the verb can be reflexive (see all the examples above).
So what I’ve gathered so for is that only a select group of verbs take a reflexive pronoun and no intransitive verbs takes a reflexive pronoun. Is this correct?
Only very few reflexive verbs are intransitive:
- "ils se sont téléphoné" from "téléphoner à quelqu'un": the past participle does not agree (they phoned each other/one another). -"elles se sont succédé" from "succéder à quelqu'un: the past participle does not agree (they succeeded one another).
- "ils se sont tus" from "se taire", with a dummy "se" which does not have any function, and yet the past participle agrees with "ils" (they became/kept quiet).
I think it unfair that Duo marks wrongly answers which could be masculine or feminine; no indication is given in the sentence as to the sex of the speaker.
"Had liked", with the auxiliary in past simple is in the past perfect tense, which corresponds to the French pluperfect, with an auxiliary in past (imperfect): "avaient aimé(es)."
"Ont aimé", with the auxiliary in present tense corresponds to a past simple or present perfect: "did like", "liked" or "have liked".
Mes amies ne les ont pas aimé(e)s:
- my friends did not like them
- my friends have not liked them