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"Bent u al overtuigd van mijn standpunt?"

Translation:Are you already convinced of my position?

October 30, 2014

41 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JenniferBr1972

Does any English-speaking person actually use 'standpoint'? I would use 'position' in every case...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larsatron

"Standpoint" a bit alien for me too. I'm from the south-east of England and I would use "position", "point-of-view" or "argument" in this context. Perhaps someone can clarify if it's an American term?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JenniferBr1972

I'm from the northeast United States, so I'd say, no, it's not an American term. I think it's just a literal translation of "standpunt".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/feyMorgaina

It's borrowed from German according to Wiktionary (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/standpoint), but there's nothing necessarily wrong with a literal translation if it is a word that is used in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidGille974090

I think as a UK native speaker that standpoint is fine. I'd say "convinced of" rather than "convinced by" is more alien


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122
  1. I am convinced by your argument
  2. I am convinced of your position

Note that in 1, the argument is a means by which to convince you. That is why "by" is used. But in 2 it is the position itself that you are convinced of.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidGille974090

This is indeed an interesting comment but I am not really convinced by the argument. One might be "impressed by your argument" but not concur with the position, but I don't think, other than semantically, you can be "convinced by the argument" but still disagree with the position. Really all my point was that I think the course should always try to reflect English as it is used, with all its imprecisions, and not as one might opine or hope it should be used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IanCaliban

I'm a native English speaker (originally from England) and I WOULD use 'standpoint' here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hobomystical

you could, would, and should use it here. but it doesn't make 'position' incorrect. both are correct, but 'position' is more common (these days, especially in an informal setting). oddly, i was going to use 'standpoint' and then thought it was too literal, so i used 'position'. guess what happened... :/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IanCaliban

Agreed. I wasn't arguing that 'position' was incorrect, only that 'standpoint' wasn't incorrect. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hobomystical

indeed. my apologies! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/feyMorgaina

Canadian English, and I prefer "standpoint" or "point of view" in this context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Royston18240

I would be interested to hear what part of Britain you come from? Or perhaps you have a Dutch parent.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/feyMorgaina

I prefer "standpoint" or "point of view" instead of "position" in this context. I've never really liked this phrasing "What's your position on this matter?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vash63

I'm originally from SW US, and I think "standpoint" sounds fine in this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaruJericho

In natural English you wouldn't use 'of' but 'by'. 'Of' sounds extremely awkward yet when I attempted 'by', I was marked as wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JenniferBr1972

I would use "by" if I said "Are you convinced by my argument," but "Are you convinced of my position."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andmac

I would have thought a correct word order in english would also be "Are you convinced already of my standpoint?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/adri-lingo

Why is "al" translated to "already" and not to "all" in this case?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JenniferBr1972

Because it's referring to before in time. 'All' wouldn't make sense in context, either.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/adri-lingo

I read it as "Are you all convinced of my standpoint?" which makes sense to me. How do you know it is referring to time? I'm looking for indicators but I don't find them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/El2theK
  • Are you already... = Ben je/jij / Bent u / Zijn jullie al...
  • Are you all... = Ben je/jij / Bent u / Zijn jullie allemaal...

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IanCaliban

But 'al' is sometimes also translated as 'all'.

For example:

  1. 'Heb je al die dingen?' = 'Do you have all those things?'

Compare this with:

  1. 'Heb je die dingen al?' = 'Do you already have those things?'

And just for good measure:

  1. 'Heb je al die dingen al?' = 'Do you already have all those things?'

Distinguishing 1 and 2 can be tricky for beginners in the language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rocteur

So it would have been zijn jullie allemaal overtuigd ... right ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GertjanNL

Yes, or 'zijn jullie allen overtuigd'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lonja14

As a Dutch and English speaker of some 70+ years, the translation should simply be: Are you convinced of my point of view yet? ('al' takes the place of yet) and standpunt = point of view. A point of view, in this case, is an opinion, not a position. It has been accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NCThom

"Yet" is accepted, but it's another instance where "already" and "yet" seem to be interchangeable, but in English, each means something different from the other.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Volusien

'Convinced about' ought to be allowed here, as should 'by'. In English, at least, it's a rather strange sentence. What does it actually mean? Does it mean: 'Have I won you over to my point of view?' or does it mean 'Have I made it clear to you what my position on the matter is?'. I have no idea which - is the Dutch as ambiguous? This is where the arguments come unstuck of the Duolingo learners who say: 'Never mind the stilted, literal English - it's Dutch you're learning'. If you don't actually know what the English means, how can you have confidence in the meaning of the Dutch you're trying to learn? Duolingo ought to choose example sentences which are natural, correct and unambiguous.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122
  1. Are you convinced of my position = Do you believe my position is correct
  2. Are you convinced by my position = Did my position change your mind
  3. Are you convinced about my position = Do you believe that is really my position

I believe the Dutch here means 1. That is, the preposition needed in English is of.

If so, I don't think the other two English prepositions should be accepted here, for though they generate grammatical English sentences, those sentences are not accurate translations of the Dutch we are given.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daneosaurus

This is what i wrote on the reverse translation and it told me "Ben" was the correct verb. Which is correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susande

From English to Dutch you can translate this as any of these:

  • ben jij (same conjugation as ik since the verb comes before jij)
  • bent u
  • zijn jullie

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rkvance5

Are they inconsistent when it comes to jij vs. je? I have gotten a few wrong by typing je when it wanted jij and I wanted to throw my phone.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susande

Verbs are conjugated identically for jij and je.

Keep in mind that je can be replace any of these:

  • jij (subject)
  • jou (object)
  • jouw (possesive)

So every jij can be replaced by a je, but not every je can be replaced by a jij.

Ignoring emphasis:

  • Jij zit op jouw stoel = Je (subject) zit op je (possesive) stoel = You sit on your chair
  • Ik praat tegen jou = Ik praat tegen je (object) = I talk to you

Since there is no context in Duolingo, jij/je will both be accepted, except for type what you hear exercises, where you have to type the exact word said by the voice.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rkvance5

(I definitely know je vs. jij, but...) I have been marked wrong on translation exercise, and I will start reporting when it happens. It's possible that it only happened once and I'm exaggerating. I hope so.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StuartHazlewood

Surely "van" should be translated as "by". I'm not sure (as a native english speaker) that I really understand what "are you convinced of my position" actually means. Anyway, when I wrote in "Are you convinced by my position" it was marked incorrect, alas.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/feyMorgaina

"Are you convinced of my position?" -> Do you agree that my position is correct?

"Are you convinced by my position?" -> Have you changed your mind because of my position?'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Royston18240

I am a home grown Brit in my seventh decade and I have never heard any Brit use the word standpoint. Also we are convinced BY not OF a so called standpoint. I think Duolingo should engage more Native Brits to check some of these translations.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NCThom

Here in the US, I can be convinced by an argument or explanation or even a person (who is offering the argument or explanation), but I’m convinced of a position or standpoint or point of view.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joe60087

I would not use of here - better english would be convinced by my position


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

Joe, in English there is a difference between convinced of and convinced by. Here convinced of is correct. See the comment on this page from NCThom.

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