https://www.duolingo.com/bchan

Coach to be released to everyone

Hello!

We just wanted to give everyone a heads up that we'll be pushing the Coach out to everybody in the near future. The following changes have been made in response to feedback from people who were in the AB test:

  • The current word count is now visible at the top of the vocabulary page
  • An alert appears when you initially turn on Coach indicating that it will affect your streak
  • We added a new test which puts the XP left in order to level on the profile page
  • Bug fixes for the weekly progress graph

The goal here was to see if the Coach could improve the overall experience, and we found that it does! The Coach performed really well both for new members and existing members.

We'll continue to work on improving communication around these tests. Thanks for your feedback!

October 31, 2014

404 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/cherub721

"The goal here was to see if the Coach could improve the overall experience, and we found that it does! The Coach performed really well both for new members and existing members."

In what way? Just curious. The feelings on the forums were overwhelmingly negative so I'm interested in what the data is that signifies that it improved the experience. The changes that are being made are very positive, but I have to admit I still have no intention of turning this feature on, ever.

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Usagiboy7

When people posted that they liked the feature, they were overwhelmingly down voted. Most of those comments reached the -3 needed to hide a comment. So, it's reasonable to believe that many other people who liked the feature opted not to respond at all when they liked it.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Margolf

that still does not explain why it has to be forced on everyone whether they want it or not

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/peter.doerrie

Because even if you don't "like" it, there is still a good chance that you will learn the language faster and better. Humans are not particularly good at making intuitively good choices in complex environments. This is why Duolingo is data driven and if the team finds prove that something is beneficial, they will introduce it for everybody.

Of course, there is a small chance that you personally deviate from the majority and would be indeed better off without the coach (or any other given feature). But Duolingo is not supposed to be the best platform for YOU, its supposed to be the best for as many people as possible. My advice: suck it up and give it a chance. You probably won't even remember most of what annoyed you in a few months time.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/NoNameHaveI

GREAT point. I don't know why this is down-voted.

November 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

The majority of people commenting feel that they can set their goals by themselves, and that the features that the coach is replacing were more useful. Furthermore, the tests that are being run are supposed to correlate motivation and site use to the coach, but they cannot possibly control other personal variables. Hopefully they are also keeping a tally of the pro vs. contra comments here in discussion!

November 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/bchan

I would encourage you to try it - in my opinion the Home view is the least effective/interesting when it is just a big button that says "Hey, turn Coach on!" =P

The typical way that we measure test performance is by comparing the people that had the feature to those that didn't by looking at the different activity between the two groups. Since the Coach was the only variable different between the two sets of people, any difference in behavior is necessarily attributed to the Coach. Since we were dealing with a feature that involved motivation and lesson completion/earning XP, those are the forms of activity that we compared.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/cherub721

Thanks for your reply bchan. One of the reasons that I do not intend to try it is that it still is not clear to me what benefit the coach is actually supposed to give me. That has never really been explained, IMO. The best thing about it that I've read is "you can reset it to 1XP so it doesn't mess up your streak." And in this post I see that there are plans to re-integrate some of the features that it took away, which is great, but that's all I see it as doing so far: taking stuff away. I don't understand what it added. I wouldn't find it motivating to know that now I need to get 10 or 20 or 50 XP not to lose my streak; that would annoy me. I find it more motivating playing those team games in the forum where you need to earn XP all week. I just did one of those, so I'm glad I didn't have coach turned on so all my extra XP would not be mis-attributed to the coach.

I'm also concerned if I turn it on I might never be able to turn it off, and that it would have extra email and mobile notifications which I definitely do not want.

I still think, as I had suggested in another post, it would be great if instead of being punitive, the coach would allow us to set goals for ourselves and bet ourselves lingots that we can do them (rather than risking losing our streak). And those goals could be weekly or monthly, not just daily, and they could even be things like "keep your tree gold for a week" or "finish your tree this month" or "learn 3 skills today" not just gaining XP.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/no.name.42

I think many people (myself included) stop caring about longots. I have over five hundred of them and nothing to spend them on. whereas the streak is seen as a mark of dedication. Betting longots may seem cool when you'er starting out, but I don't think it has much long term value.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/cherub721

I also value my streak more than anything else but all the streak means is that you earned whatever number of XP in a day. That gets boring. You can do it just by re-golding a skill or doing Basics 1. Sometimes I like to challenge myself in different ways, like by the number of skills I learn in a period of time. I would just prefer for the coach to have more different options like that, instead of essentially the same thing we had (the streak) except the ability to opt to require more XP to keep it. IMO that is not innovative at all.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Larisa_L

Indeed, Duolingo is a great example of not so well implemented gamification. Some badges, leaderboards and game currencies are introduced, but then they are not actually integrated well into the experience itself, so they soon become pointless and boring. That is not Duolingo only problem though, it is said that about 80% of gamification attempts fail to deliver. And Duolingo is not the worst example. It is just sad to see, that it may end up as a failure in the history of gamification, instead of being a true success story. The good news, everyone can learn from that and try to do better.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ajpthree

lingots are fun to give away for comments like this one - but yeah after you have like 500, & you can get a heart refill, or extra skills, or bet for more, whenever you want, I definitely agree that they lose their value. A streak is a huge motivator! :D

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/cherub721

It's not the lingots I care about, but the motivation of betting and keeping the bet. I can't think of any other reward besides lingots that could be given.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

Nice ideas & comments, Cherub.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/SanneTofte

Very good Idea. Have a Lingot or two

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Xneb

Surely the problem there is that you could have 70% of people who it helped, but 30% who it made no difference to or hindered, and 30% is still a large proportion (although not a majority) of unhappy users. I personally found the coach made no difference in my motivation (happening to have more personal motivation after coach was introduced did) and found it a bit annoying seeing "11/1" or "100/1" because I keep it at 1 not knowing how much motivation or patience or time I'm going to have on any given day. I found the coach to be a big annoying object on my home screen where I'd much rather see something more relevant, such as how close I am to levelling up (which is an important motivation for me to do more, especially if I see I'm close to levelling up). Surely a certain degree of customisation is necessary to make more people happy and comfortable with how they're learning, or at least different options being taken into consideration in tests. Maybe coach could work better if it was a bit smaller, with the levelling up bar underneath, or being shown the levelling up bar at the end of a lesson rather than the coach, so many possibilities that get thrown under the carpet because this one had a majority of people that were more active while it was running

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/tariqnisarahmed

Coach was available to me for a very long time on the mobile app. The idea was so stupid to me that I never used it. I am not using it now, either. But for sure there have been plenty of times when I saw I was close to leveling up in French, and I spent a little more time on a lesson, or in practice, or in Immersion just to get that next level. For me, the score is coach zero and status bar at ten or more.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

I'm so glad they added the possibility to see XP's towards next level. Thank you, bchan and DL team! So, a question: if I set my daily goal at 10 and only make 9 XP's, then I'd lose my streak? But at least I took the time to get on and do a little work. Maybe my schedule has been busy and this time is being carved out of my available sleep hours (usually only six)... I honestly don't see why anyone would want this. The weekly graph is nice enough. With that, one can see their work and know whether they have satisfied their personal goals or not. I wonder if people actually set their daily goal at anything higher than one, with that looming danger of losing their streak.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Jackie00010

Jairapetyan is right. I bet very few people set their daily goal to more than one, knowing that they might lose their streak.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

Maybe the coach would be more popular if what was at stake were lingots (which can be replaced) rather than your streak. So if you set your daily goal at 10 XPs and you don't manage it, the next day you are greeted by a disappointed little owl (accompanied by the trombone glissando that plays when you lose all your hearts) who grabs one of your lingots and flies away, saying, "Hope you do better today!"

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/_pinkodoug_

Those that don't want to risk it have the option to set your daily goal to 1 (as you point out), which is functionally the same as things are now without the coach feature. For those that wish to push themselves, they can set it higher.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/peter1996

@bchan - can you guys see if anybody sets their daily goal higher than one XP?

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/TheCrimsonEmpire

I was forced to have a minimum goal of ten; maybe it is because I do not have timed practice yet.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

I gave you a few lingots so you could buy timed practice. Enjoy!

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/OldSpiceGuy

Ditto. I lost a 400+ day streak because it wasn't initially clear that you had to hit your goal to keep the streak going. That's not how it worked on iPhone. So I'm one of the people that keep a streak of 1 now.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/bchan

Hi. I fixed it. Thanks!

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/knittingirl

Post on Bchan's stream about this, and she'll probably give it back. I think she's now doing that for everyone who lost their streak due to coach :)

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/iwc2ufan

Yes, if it looks like it's helping me, that was a coincidence. It hasn't changed my motivation or how much I've done things, which has to do with my overall goals and energy levels of the day. I think for those of us learning more than one language, it is pointless. It just confuses the idea of having done X amount of points a day with 'doing duolingo well', when I could easily be doing one of my languages insanely well but leaving all the others by the wayside. For me, I'd prefer coach be separated per language, allowing us to have different goals per languages. In terms of XP, having less than 15 in Dutch means I'd probably have barely done anything significant, whereas getting even a couple from translation in a language like Portuguese that I'm just reviewing rather than learning from scratch is enough to keep it in the forefront of my mind since I speak Portuguese quite well already and have done for several years, whereas I've only done Dutch since duolingo introduced it, so I could forget much faster.

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/sunitadarbe

I very much agree! Different goals for different languages would be very helpful!

March 29, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/scarcerer

I've used coach on mobile before, since it's compulsory when you add a new language there, and I ended up removing the course and adding it on desktop to avoid using the feature. So, like some others, I'm pretty sure I won't be using it. And because "Hey, turn coach on" isn't effective or interesting as you said, I hope you will give us the option to hide it with tabs (as pinkodoug suggested above) or just close the box.

The graph could be the only interesting part of this but because it doesn't tell how many points you've earned in each language, I'd rather just watch the empty screen.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/egfinn

I was in the Coach test group. I ignored the coach and I intend to continue doing so. As it turns out, I am very intrinsically motivated, so my behavior on Duolingo is largely determined by how much free time I have. I would use the coach if it actually helped me learn faster - maybe by providing some kind of tip to help me remember something. It appears that its sole purpose it to try to get me to do more each day. I always try to do as much as I can. I wish I could spend hours a day working on my language acquisition, but unfortunately I have to work, sleep, and take care of some other commitments. The little owl on the right of my screen is not going to make those other things go away so I can use Duo more.

I just hope that my continuing to use Duo during the test period did not make it appear that the coach was doing something positive for me. Because it wasn't.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ajpthree

I wouldn't use the coach, even if I didn't have a long streak going - I'm self motivated to do at least a few sets per day, & right now I'm in graduate school (studying music, which has almost nothing to do with learning languages - outside of reading directions & text/lyrics in multiple languages, which isn't really an issue in jazz) so sometimes I can only do a set at most per day. So the coach isn't going to help me really, & having it HUGE on all of my pages is just annoying. I miss the flags on the profile page (although the XP being listed is a nice change, I wonder why we couldn't just have both?), & the progress bar on individual language pages - having the coach all enormous & right in the way of everything makes me worried I'll accidentally click it & screw myself (especially in the app, where we're constantly bombarded with "set a goal" after every set!), & since it's something I've never used (can't use it in one language without screwing up my streak for ALL languages) it seems more than just a bit too much. I love duolingo, but I'm fine using it the way I have been for over a year now. I don't think I'll ever want to use a coach (even if I were to try it), it seems like the same thing as having a workout partner - constantly bugging you to do more, or to train when you're not available/able to - & I prefer to workout alone. :D

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/SteveBosman

Do you exclude users from your results who have triggered other variables? The introduction of coach for me coincided with me discovering timed tests, and the timed tests have motivated me a lot - perversely I like the added pressure.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/SteveBosman

I really wish the drive by downvoters would sometimes explain themselves. I feel my question is legitimate. Are all changes in users behaviour put down to the interface changes?

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/writchie4

Instantly vanishing downvotes, such a fun phenomenon. :)

A/B testing at its core uses randomly assigned test groups. As long as the test groups are large enough, it's safe to assume that any behavior caused by other factors (like your discovery of the timed tests) has happened with equal frequency in the opposite test group.

At least, that's the theory. These things tend to be a little more complicated in practice, and only the devs/admins would be able to answer you specifically about Duo's methods.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/tariqnisarahmed

Forgive me if you already explained this, but for persons involved with testing the coach, the only difference between the two groups was having coach on or off? Is that right? I ask because we have had a thread that let us see in our browsers what tests were being performed on each of us, and it seemed like there were a great many variables being tested simultaneously.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Larisa_L

For instance, some moderators, including me, are changing the lessons currently. Which should make them easier and more clear. That can motivate people to study more, but who knows with so many competing things, right? Then how about bugs, in our English-Russian course there are 2 major bugs currently - one doesn't allow you to open sentence discussions and another one which makes any noise accepted as a correct answer. Those things can easily mess your numbers.

What I see, is that lately people started to do less, they only try one skill and don't do anything else. What is the cause? I have no idea, maybe they just come to complete their coach goal, or maybe our bugs annoy them - too many things going at once, for sure. But we should hope that Duolingo analysts are well aware of all of that, they are doing their PhD studies, so they most likely took everything into account, didn't they?

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/pont

We'll continue to work on improving communication around these tests.

Thanks! I think many of us will appreciate that.

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/MultiLinguAlex

Exactly! But I realize that they are more active with communicating right now. Feels good.

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/TheBryce

If you look at the comments, bchan has replied to many of them. Many of the staff have also been posting things on the forum. I agree, it feels nice to be listened to.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/JaneEmily

About time too.

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/mreaderclt

I don't think I'll turn Coach on until:

  1. I know I can turn it off if I find it to be as mind-numbingly annoying as I think it will be. .
  2. I know I won't lose any features I already use.

  3. It has no effect on my streak.

I'm highly skeptical of any conclusion that it improves the overall user experience.

"There are lies, damned lies and statistics." - Mark Twain

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AureliaUK

I'm afraid I agree with you.

What strikes me is that much of what DL touts as improvements probably are improvements - for extroverts. Extroverts learn and are motivated differently from introverts, and what extroverts find motivating introverts usually find irritating and de-motivating. If things become sufficiently irritating and demotivating, introverts will walk away from DL, and introverts are more of less half of the population and therefore presumably of the user base.

As things stand, I can currently deal with the degree of gamification within the system because elements (but not all) of it work for me, but if it becomes too irritating or dominant I will walk away.

As well as communicating more (and more meaningfully) with users, I believe DL needs to be much more aware of how different people learn and how to allow individual learners to choose what elements work for them and switch off the irritations and distractions. Otherwise the message is: "You don't matter. If you don't like the offer, **** off".

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Rewjeo
  • 1479

I am about as introverted as a person can get, and I find the coach generally helpful. Certain changes that came with it were not welcome, but all the coach itself does is allow you to change how much XP you need a day to continue your streak - and you can change it whenever you want. I try to leave mine on 50 but some days I just haven't had the time to do that. Quite frankly, I think the value of the coach has less to do with intro/extroversion and more to do with how busy you are. If you are already doing hundreds of XP worth of work each day, the coach as it stands now won't be as helpful as just seeing your XP bar or word count. Being as busy as I am, though, the coach pushes me to actually get stuff done on Duolingo. I have definitely made more progress since the coach was added.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jfernatt

Second that

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Rappelke

Sounds like the Microsoft approach - install all possible options by default, and let users google to find out how to turn the damned "features" off.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ajpthree

introvert here, & I totally agree - I find extroverts extremely annoying, & almost anything that they like (especially in regards to learning) pretty much makes my blood boil. I'm with you, give us the option to turn it off, close the box, whatever - I was (almost) completely fine with the way duolingo was, outside of a few minor problems/glitches I've been meaning to post about… :D

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Bducdt

Also, I don't get this relationship with the coach feature and introverts/extroverts. The hell does it have to do with one's preference towards handling social situations?

It's merely a way to enable you to set a number that will kill your streak if you don't meet it every day -- that way if you want to set it to 1 to meet your streak, so be it, but if you want to force yourself to hit 30 to keep your streak, you can do that too. It's merely a way to keep you from getting away from doing the bare minimum every day. No more, no less. The "coach" part is just a way to present this feature to the users. It has nothing to do with other people.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/nparryjones

"Extroverts learn and are motivated differently from introverts, and what extroverts find motivating introverts usually find irritating and de-motivating."

Please show me where in Jungian psychoanalysis this occurs.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/slogger

Please show me where in Jungian psychoanalysis this occurs.

Why? Not that I know for sure, but probably AureliaUK's comment was not specifically Jungian but based on what she's read or on her own observations. The terms extrovert and introvert are now part of the general vocabulary and not limited to Analytical psychology.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/mreaderclt

Thank you. I'm definitely an introvert.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

Ah, mreadercit, you are always the witty skeptic. ;)

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/tariqnisarahmed

Lingot for Twain

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Xneb

What about the word count for the languages in Beta which don't have word lists? Not that it's too important of a feature, it's still nice to see

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/bchan

Good point, we'll figure something out - thanks!

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/scarcerer

Will there be a way to turn the coach off and possibly get rid of the daily goal graph?

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Usagiboy7

You will be able to set the daily goal to 1XP, the same as the previous minimum goal for keeping a streak. :)

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/RandallMiles

Which does not answer the question. I never had a daily goal or used the coach until I installed the DL app on my smartphone yesterday. Bad idea. I was forced, or so it seemed to me, to set a daily goal. Now I cannot get rid of it. I don't need a coach. I don't want a coach. I just want to get rid of the vile thing. Setting my goal to 1XP does not get rid of the coach, it just sets the goal to 1XP.

January 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/GeniusJack

Ok, thank you very much!

And thank you especially for listening to user feedback!

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Eey91

Even though I find this feature useless for me (personal preference) I'm glad to see big changes that improve the overall experience.

Since no one really asked I have a question. With the implementation of the Coach the XP bar will be gone forever? Is it really impossible to set the layout to have both? because after being active on the previous official discussion about the coach I could say that was the main topic/complain/feedback we gave. After almost 8 months of using DL every day I really believe the leveling bar is important. I've really never played a "game" in which you have the ability to lvl up and you don't have an XP progress Bar.

Off topic: Why was the "retry" button removed?

Thanks.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/EdithOSB

I would like to see the Coach made optional.

If you have a very steady schedule, then a daily goal makes sense. For a person whose work schedule and demands are incredibly variable day to day, a point goal is a de-motivator (unless you set it to one point or something). The streak, on the other hand, keeps me motivated to at least do something.

There's also a tremendous imbalance between Immersion and the tree. You eke out points 13 at a time (at best) for a whole lesson on the tree, while you can breeze through hundreds of points quickly in immersion.

At least for me, the Coach and the points/day approach doesn't make sense. I'm delighted if it works for some people, but I would love to be able to get rid of the constant requests, both on the app and now online, to set a daily goal.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ajpthree

amen!! :D

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/JuliaBellaItalia

Thanks so much for letting us know!

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Grumpylingo

Just had the coach graph forced on me giving me the total xp's instead of the individual language and I have to say if it is an option fine but that is NOT what I prefer, I am more than capable of setting my own daily target and that is not the same for each language and while that total makes a rough total of xp's a day that is not how I use the graphs and running totals.

It seems to me like people are just tinkering because they can, the option was already there for daily coach and I didn't want to use the option and my reward for not wanting it is to it have forced on me, well thanks.

After some thought it seems I may have been a bit hasty, I was being to nice this change is a total farce.

Let me be clear I think duolingo is THE BEST free language learning tool around but this update is a giant leap backwards, The whole point of having a daily streak to me is to keep people coming back to keep it going, the point of individual totals for each language is the same thing but someone in their infinite wisdom has seen fit to change that for a grand daily total. What's next no individual total just a total of the points everybody has done combined.

I already keep a spreadsheet for the daily totals for each language so I can look back at when I was slacking off I started this to be able to keep the daily record longer than the week that was available on the web site but now that is the only way I have to be able to keep track of the daily score for each language.

I can't believe what a backward step this is in offering people the choice of how to keep track of what they are doing.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Larisa_L

Interestingly, it was shown that games are so motivating because they satisfy some of our basics needs, most importantly need of competence, automation and communication. Automation is by the way the ability to make your own decisions. Primitive games don't give you that, but more advanced games offer you lots of choices. In case of Duolingo it seems quite unwise to limit your choices :))

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Dessamator

If one has to take the perspective of games, then Duolingo made the right choice. A good game never reveals too much, keeps the person guessing and entertained wanting more till the end. Therein lies the difference between a committed user, hardcore user, and casual user. Less options are challenging for the hardcore user, but off-putting to the casual user, and anyone who has ever completed a tree using Duolingo would definitely be a hardcore / committed user.

> In case of Duolingo it seems quite unwise to limit your choices :))

More options means more clutter, more bugs, difficulty in maintaining software and performance problems. As an example, if your Russian course had only 100 sentences, it could be relatively bug free and of high quality in less time rather than with 10000 skills or words.

If one has to take the perspective of language learning then tracking daily effort regardless of language is also good. This is because on average the average joe(or jane) user is unlikely to learn more than one language, and when they do it is likely detrimental as probably few people can concentrate on many languages at the same time, and most probably end up quitting and learning very little anyway.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Larisa_L

I'm not a programmist but I know enough programming to understand that the coach has a goal variable of either 1, 10, 20, 30 and 50. And then there is an if clause: As soon as user's experience = goal, streak = +1. Now, how hard it is to allow users to enter any number (in a given range maybe) and then try to meet that goal? Then instead of cluttering things with 5 different options: https://www.duolingo.com/settings/coach - you would only need to have 1 place to enter your own number. That will give users autonomy and improve overall experience.

Talking about average joes. I believe, that our efforts should not be wasted on those who come and go, on the opposite, we should invest much more in our dedicated users. In Russian course I do try to improve experience for everyone, but when I have to choose, I always prefer to help those, who showed some dedication. Those will come again and again, thus their needs are more important for Duolingo's success than of some average joes. What is interesting, investing time in those dedicated users pays off. They start helping average joes, and some of them even become moderators and course contributors.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/_pinkodoug_

The limitation is artificial. It would be trivial to allow an arbitrary value to be set via a text input in lieu of, say, the last radio option. This can already be done with a bit of trickery (see the screenshot below), so why Duo doesn't just allow users to set a value for themselves is a bit of a mystery.

Imgur

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Dessamator

It is indeed not hard to do ( I know software development). The issue is that when something is customizable people are often stumped, e.g. there are countless threads in the forums of people asking which, when, and how many languages they should learn. People may also put a setting that is so absurd that it results in failure and de-motivation.

Anyway, those customizable settings would have to be tested, but in my opinion, that is the reason why they didn't put them. Windows operating systems have tens of thousands of customizable options, yet it may not always increase ease of use or usefulness because most people wouldn't even know where to find them or which settings work best for them.

I believe, that our efforts should not be wasted on those who come and go, on the opposite, we should invest much more in our dedicated users.

I agree, but unfortunately it is likely that dedicated users are the minority. Language learning can be complex, requiring commitment and motivation. That is something casual users (the likely majority) probably lack.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Larisa_L

Duolingo is not a non-for-profit, right? (while it is not clear how for profit they are). If a business wants to make profit, then they don't care about the majority, they care about the value bringing customers the most.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/writchie4

There's always a trade-off between adding new features and keeping the interface simple. Adding a feature such as a box that allows users to enter their own XP goal is a simple change programatically. But that ignores the question of whether such a change has any negative effects.

Maybe seeing the "complication" of the added box causes more people to just leave Coach at its default setting (1xp)? Maybe allowing users to set their own values makes it more difficult to gather stats about different groups of users? Or maybe, as you said, it decreases user involvement at the "macro" level when people set unrealistic streaks for themselves.

Software developers deal with this tradeoff all the time, and it's a difficult one to balance. Almost all new features sound good in isolation, but feature creep is a real problem. When you continually add choices just because they are possible (and may be useful to a subset of users), you inevitably end up with something like Joel Spolsky's 11 different ways to shut down a computer.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Dessamator

If a business wants to make profit, then they don't care about the majority, they care about the value bringing customers the most.

Currently, the only users offering value to Duolingo are web-users who can use immersion. That would mean Duolingo would have to forsake 85% of the user base.

If nothing else, those tons of users bring good press which in turn brings in more committed users. Using that logic, Duolingo should commit most time on the Test Center, and on bringing immersion to mobiles, thereby decreasing the time spent on incubator and on tweaks to the interface.

P.S. A nice ted talk of the paradox of choice :).

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Larisa_L

And indeed that is what they should do. Gaining new users is important as well, so it is always a question of balance, however, you cannot just go with what the majority wants. I personally work in the insurance business, and for instance our new business does not bring any profit at all, the cost of customer acquisition is very high, only seasoned customers (who stay with us for several years) bring profit. That doesn't mean, of course that we don't care about the new business - oh we care a lot. But again, we don't just care about the majority of our customers, we invest the most effort in those who bring more profit (multiple-product customers for instance) and we get rid of those who just drain our resources (crazy drivers with tons of tickets).

In any case, I'm pretty sure that we more agree with each other than disagree. I do take into account everything your're saying, but I still believe that Duolingo is unfortunately not making the most of the brilliant idea they have.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/pelle2000

So, there won't be the option to chose between the coach and the old XP bar? I was quite content with setting my own, somewhat varying goals (get at least 30 xp every day, reach lvl X before date Y, do N new lessons and N refresh lessons per day and so on), and enjoyed keeping track of the XP bar. I don't think I'll activate the coach...

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/annika_a

Thanks! We really do appreciate your messages!

(The autocorrect on my phone suggested we appreciate your massages... Let's call good communication with the users massaging them mentally, then.) :-D

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Zuquita

I have no interest in using the Coach whatsoever. But I loved the progress bar because it was visual and showed me my progress quickly and clearly. It was very motivating and I would really like to have it back. Having to click on my Profile to just see a number in no way is the same as seeing that gold bar every time I was on my home page.

The Coach doesn't do anything for me that the streak count and the old daily XP chart did already.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Fettes

I like the word count. Apparently I'm only 42 words short of 1000. That gives me a new goal to break :)

And now the inevitable question; now that the AB test is done are you guys planning on restoring the streaks for people who lost theirs due to not being properly informed of how this feature works?

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/fortytwovex

I'm not quite certain what the 'coach' feature really adds here (or more accurately--I just don't think it amounts to much). I liked the gold level progress bar, and that seems to have been sacrificed for this new feature. Not that it's a terrible feature necessarily, it just takes up too much space on the page in place of potentially more useful information that could be displayed.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

We're hoping Duolingo adds in some way for us to track that again. They are currently testing it on profiles, but it's losing, so they may have to think of something else.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/eliadeliad

Can't we have different goals for different languages?

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Patrezko

Why did you changed what was great?! I dont want to see my day steak twice. It is as unuseful as seeing how many hours left till 00:00.... I would rather see how many words I learnt and a progress bar, how far i am till next level - as it was before... Please give me option to change it back! This is terrible! [IMG]http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/03/3ec951b58d392d9356ad97aaaaac8f25.jpg[/IMG]

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Bluekirby2000

please bring back the xp bar its really awesome and I miss it :(

November 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AureliaUK

What exactly does this mean? That it will be available to everyone to use if they want to, or that its use will be compulsory whether we like it or not?

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Grumpylingo

Well 24 hours on from the forced coach update and I can't begin to tell you how annoyed I am, what a totally stupid "improvement" that was. It has now become a pain of a job just to try and keep track of what my progress is and if I am on my own individual target in each language and because of this I can see my interest in the site declining. It is beyond belief that enough people thought this was an upgrade. But what do I know, I'm just an end user who should be grateful for what I got for free.

How many people did it take to convince the brains trust that it worked?

How many existing members thought it was a good improvement?

How many long term regular users?

How many multiple language learners?

I must not be alone in my utter disbelief that something that was an option that I didn't want becomes the only choice.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/tsw34

Dear bchan,

Many thanks to you & the Duolingo team for all your hard work contributing to such an excellent learning resource; this site has helped me immeasurably.

I have one question: Since the introduction of the coach feature (and the subsequent loss of the progress bar) I have not been able to access my experience points total. Would it be possible for you to point me in the right direction?

Many thanks again.

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/bchan

Unfortunately your language specific XP is not accessible with the coach on at the moment when you're learning multiple languages. If you're learning one language, it will display on your leader board. We're running a test now to hopefully remedy this though - sit tight!

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Cheryl1

This is DL's priority? Here World! we have improved your user experience! You're going to love The Coach darn it! Frankly, I'm kind of baffled by all of the hoopla surrounding ''The Coach". It really matters not how motivated users are if the quality of the course content stays as it is. It seems that the DL team is entirely focused on the user interface with little regard to the quality of the course contents. Yes, 40M users sounds really impressive to investors on the surface. But where are the ''statistics'' and the A/B tests results, that they seem fixated on, showing how this UI change directly correlates to improving language proficiency. They have a product to produce.... correctly translated documents which they plan to sell and make a profit.

What would improve my user experience, and therefore, my value to DL, is if some attention was paid to the quality of course contents. The materials are riddled with errors. The exercise discussion forums are chaotic with constant pleas for a native speaker to provide some assistance. We hear nothing about improvements being made in the course content but perhaps they are working feverishly on improvements and have failed to communicate that to us? There is no native speaker expert help available (except for those wonderful, dedicated people who volunteer their time) so the vast majority of questions just go unanswered. Is it too much to ask of DL to employ native speakers to troll the exercise discussion forums and provide guidance? It seems like a no-brainer to me if they hope to produce a quality product.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/bchan

I don't think you want me working on the course content. I may be fluent in English, but the only Spanish that I know is from using Duolingo itself. Though - I could probably correct Basics 1 and 2 sentences like a boss =P

Everyone working at Duolingo has a different role, expertise, and background. You wouldn't want a language expert designing your UI, just as you wouldn't want a designer coming up with new words to teach. I can assure you that there are people and teams - both Duolingo staff and impressive/talented (aka awesome) volunteers - who are dedicating their time to making the courses better and more effective. Features like this one don't take away from that time or effort.

As ideal as it would be to have a native speaker on hand to answer every question, that is not really feasible or scaleable. You'd essentially need a native speaker for each direction that we provide, and even if we were able to manage that, they'd be working at a ratio of 1:100,000 for some courses, if not more. If you're interested in how the courses are progressing, you can feel free to follow their updates on the Incubator/post comments on the forums/report sentences you think are graded incorrectly.

Thanks!

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Cheryl1

I understand how teams work having been an IT consultant for everything from small start-ups to major corporations. Perhaps that is why I have a more structured based, goal oriented viewpoint than some. I definitely wouldn't want IT staff working as system matter experts! That is a recipe for disaster:) Each person on a team has a role and defined responsibilities.

You have assured us that there is staff that are working on making the courses better and more effective.I'm good with that! Really, that is my only concern because we don't hear about these efforts. I have no expectation of EVERY question being answered. Sorry if what I said led you to believe that that was my expectation. It would be heartening to just occasionally see a ''blue ringed'' post providing feedback in the exercise discussions much as Luis did early on. When Luis spoke I was spurred on because it showed me that he was really engaged not only with the UI but the quality of the contents and course structure as well. Understandably that is no longer possible for Luis but I really did like it.

BTW....I can't help but notice your adorable dog:) You hit me in a real soft spot:)

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/GeniusJack

Are there any plans to hire people for working on some of the more difficult languages? What are some of the reasons Duolingo hired hideki? (Who's been great, btw)

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

That could basically be a good idea. They could have a couple of language experts take turns sifting through discussions for unanswered questions. Unpaid volunteers. However, finding native speakers should not be the only prerequisite. A plus, perhaps; but they should select individuals with a good grip on grammar and language acquisition theories. Individuals with a solid educational background, good communication skills and perhaps a nurturing nature.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Dr.Sunshine

En otras palabras, Ud. sería una candidata perfecta.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

Jejeje, gracias doctor - es muy amable de Ud. Yes, I could see myself volunteering as long as they made my user icon look special. :)

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Cheryl1

I like your suggestion a lot. I've seen people volunteer to play that role, from time to time, but I suspect that it does take a lot of time to vet people to ensure they fit the teacher / mentor role. It's a very special person who can impart their knowledge through teaching. Perhaps, slowly, over time, we'll begin to see ''red ringed'' or ''yellow-ringed'' people who are have the qualities that you have suggested.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

Thanks Cheryl. I would actually love to improve course content (for example in Spanish there is no "por vs para" lesson) integrating it with common high school textbooks, and making it more school-user-friendly. I did apply, but that was over a month ago and they haven't even acknowledged my application. I'm neither surprised nor in a hurry. I still hope to be moving to Pennsylvania someday. :)

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/psifish

If you find an error in the course content, submit a report. I can't speak for all the courses, but I have gotten maybe a dozen confirmations from the Spanish-from-English course (from jenna_swiss) that my suggested answer is now accepted. This will vary from course-to-course as the contributors are different. I have also found in the Spanish-from-English course that there are a number of volunteers who have gone though the discussion forums and added helpful comments. I find that about 95% of the time, if I have a question (i.e. ser v.s. estar) it has been answered there.

Yes, it may be too much to ask of the Duolingo staff to troll the discussion forums and provide guidance. They have a small staff, must allocate their time strategically and hope that the slack is picked up by volunteers. You might not agree with their strategy, but it is evident that they are working really hard and really care.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Cheryl1

I've submitted more than a hundred reports. Perhaps 5 were accepted. The majority of my reports were checked with my Madrileño friend as to their correctness (yes! A real live friend who lives in Madrid, Spain). I do the leg work, provide resource links, etc. and still little gets corrected. You must have the magic touch! I don't think its too much to ask, what purports to be a language learning company, to employee system matter experts.

I didn't question the staff's work ethic. Working hard, even really hard, does not equate to working smart. Leadership and communication are keys to success! The volunteers are a godsend who I greatly appreciate. Their dedication, and willingness to donate their time to ensure that DL is a success is beyond generous given that DL is not a non-profit, charitable enterprise. DL either has sufficient working capital to fund this business to meet their stated mission and goals or they don't. Dl will either evolve into a serious language learning system capable of producing high quality products or stay as it is, a mediocre language learning site with an ever evolving user interface.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/_pinkodoug_

I would take exception to the "riddled with errors" characterization. Sure, there are errors in every course which is inevitable, but they get corrected when reported. To say it's anything resembling "riddled" is hyperbole that undermines whatever point you're trying to make.

As for the course mods' and contrubutors' responses to error submissions, apparently many of us have the magic touch. I've had several dozen submissions corrected dating back to over a year and a half ago (mostly by pamec in the past and jennaswiss more recently). I've seen several other users report similar success. The course mods receive tens of thousands of these submissions, most of which get rejected because the user is actually incorrect. Many more are simply spam. Whether the submission is legitimate or not, it takes a while to work through them, but they do get checked.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Cheryl1

Point taken!

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

It also seems to me to have received several dozen of those emails. But perhaps the key is that none of us are keeping a tally on our reports and if or when they get accepted. Cheryl says she does the research before submitting suggestions, and that they include links that support her claims. Under these circumstances, I'd be really surprised if they weren't accepted. It just takes a long time: up to four months.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

I hate to hear DL be labled as "mediocre." Have you compared it to other sites that you have to pay for to be a member? Have you even compared it to Rosetta Stone, which is notoriously expensive? IMO, Duolingo is already brilliant, and it will only get better. That said, I do agree with you that more attention should be given to content development than the user interface.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Cheryl1

Yes I have compared it to other sites I have used and to actual classes (with a teacher classes). Rosetta Stone seems notoriously expensive, but given that Babel, Fluencia, etc cost about $120 / year it's not that expensive. RS can be bought for around $200. It is really boring, not very motivating, uses canned dialogues, and the UI is outdated. That said, having a native speaker is really nice. I have also used Fluenz which is expensive but a bit slow paced for my tastes. It is excellent. It's very grammar and pronunciation focused and actually pairs nicely with DL. BTW....I agree with the Dr., you would make an excellent language moderator:)

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

Thank you again, Cheryl, you are very kind. I have seen and tried FluentU, Verbling, Linq8, Bliu Bliu and perhaps others without being very impressed. I use Quizlet for my classes and find Lang-8 very helpful, and both these have a free version. Just now I did some research and also found LiveMocha, which I'd like to try, along with the ones you mentioned (I'd like to improve my Russian). And of course there's Conversation Exchange. You mentioned in a different post that you have a friend from Madrid, but if you want to expand and do more Skype lesson exchanges, that's the go-to site.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Cheryl1

I can't reply to your final post, but Live Mocha was once a wonderful, user sourced site focused on getting feedback from native speakers on various exercises. Usually, one person would take you under their tutelage and a nice relationship would develop. However, they were bought out by RS a while back and it's really gone down hill. RS has monetized the site. I tried the new Live Mocha but the UI is a confusing mess with a coin system and really not much structure. What I liked best was that I could provide feedback to English learners either written or oral. It made me feel like I was giving back.

I'm very fortunate to have a friend in Madrid who is more that happy to Skype with me. She's not a native speaker, however she has a MS in Spanish and has lived in Madrid for 15 years. If we weren't so off topic I could tell you many funny stories about '''knowing a language'' and using the language in a native environment. Book learning and actual usage....miles apart.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

Yeah I know... I lived in Italy for 20 years. I haven't spent enough time in Spain (or one of the other 21 countries where Spanish is spoken) to really get to know the language so... intimately. Thanks for your comments on Live Mocha. You probably would enjoy Lang-8 as it also allows you to give back. It allows you to upload specimens of your writing and native speakers correct it, providing comments. It's very useful when you need to have something perfect in writing. You just have to plan ahead so you'll receive a couple of timely corrections. You can also "pay forward" and help people learning English. And you will receive more corrections if you help more people. It doesn't have to be the same people, of course.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/supainanoko

I agree that Live Mocha has gotten confusing. The old version was nice--I had a pen-pal in Japan and we helped each other with English and Japanese. But now the new version won't let me make corrections on a piece of writing if they didn't ask me to. I wrote to the people in charge and asked them if they could change that, and they said no. Also some of the later lessons have no context and don't make any sense. The old version was really helpful, though.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Owlish_Owl

"If you find an error in the course content, submit a report."

What a wonderful idea! And how are we supposed to do that, if we use iOS app?

November 30, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/wynrich

Hi Owlish_Owl. I have android app so IOS might be different. But on the android app, after you answer an exercise a little banner appears that indicates whether your are correct or incorrect. On that banner is a little flag that you can touch to get to a form to report a problem.

November 30, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Owlish_Owl

Hi wynrich! I tried pressing on the banner as you said, but nothing happens:( Thanks for suggesting, anyway!

November 30, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/wynrich

Is there a little flag on bottom right of the banner? That's where to press on mine -- on the flag itself.

November 30, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Owlish_Owl

Oh, no - there is no little flag.

November 30, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/stefanschets

I don't mind the coach at all, but where is my point total and how much I have left until I level up? I was getting pretty close and would like to know how much I have left. Sometimes I base my daily achievements on how many points I need to level up. Now I can't see that.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/e-Xcat

I really miss the current progress and the remaining points to the next level. Please add it somewhere on the home page!

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/JanAlbiez

Me too!

I would like to have all the information! The coach and the current level progress... why did duo take that away in the first place?

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Sue_Wright

Hi Duo! Busy woman here! I feel really demotivated now I cannot see my progress bars. I have never noticed nor cared about my streaks because it very rare for me to be able to practice 7 days a week. I am motivated by trying to reach the next level but I don't feel like I have acheived anything for the last couple of days.

November 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/wakz

I really do not like that the progress bars got deleted, and you do not know when you level up.

November 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/GrandApple

Lovely! I want it so badly

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Margolf

I thought you said the missing xp point info was going to be fixed before you made us all use this coach feature -- but today, my system changed and now the coach thing takes up the top 1/3 of my screen and the xp information is missing - it's not on the profile page either- and the response time on the site has gone to the pace of a snail......

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/silkwarrior

Unless I've missed something I must admit that I can't really see the point of this. I already have an idea of what is a good daily score. I always make sure that I score something each day to maintain my streak - usually it is anywhere between 10 and 50 XP. But when I'm on a roll I go for 100, well above "insane" ranking. Haven't dared click on the button to choose a daily target as I have the impression that if I don't continue to hit the chosen target every day I will lose my streak.

Apologies if I have missed something.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Violet-Mora

I'm really irritated that I don't have the option to turn the coach off again, and my XP points for each level (which was my personal biggest motivator) suddenly aren't visible either on my home screen or profile (though to me it makes more sense for the progress bar to be on the home page, since that's where I'm working on my language learning, and that's where the rest of the stats are).

It's also really frustrating that the individual progresses I had for each separate language are now smushed together. If nothing else I'd like to be able to set a goal for each individual language, and keep their progresses separate. Otherwise I feel like I'd be tempted to just ignore one language in favor of the other, especially since I no longer have those progress bars for each language so I can see that XP add up, getting closer to the next level with each lesson.

November 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/bibliobibulous

Thanks for the heads-up -- and for the compensation for the missing feaures. We really appreciate it. :D Thanks for listening to our feedback!

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN

I want to know how much xp I have done each day in each particular language, or at the very least whether or not I have practiced each individual language or not. I miss that bar! I used to look at how much xp I had done for each language and go back and do more in those with less done for that day. Please let the coach have a global goal for all the languages which affects the streak, and individual course goals which can affect the individual course streaks (which I only see on my android phone) but would be good to see on the computer since not all courses are available on the phone. Perhaps he could have assistant coaches for each language as long as it doesn't take up more space.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/tariqnisarahmed

If this coach scheme costs me my 300+ day streak, then I will likely spend much less time on DL. After hearing nothing but negative comments from the AB group on the forums, it was a big disappointment to find my meter replaced with the tracksuit-duo.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/mgaristova

Hello, people! Does anybody know if I lose my streak in case I don't meet the xp goal but use the Streak Freeze? Anyway, I would like to get rid of the coach. And I want my progress bar back: I could see myself closer and closer to the next level, and THAT was really motivating! Now I have been spending hours in search of any good news about our progress bar. Time I could have spent to learn, though!

November 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/freymuth

Yes, if you have bought a streak freeze and you don't meet your daily target for a day, you don't lose your streak. As for the rest, it looks like most people want the progress bar back. We can only hope that they reinstate it following their testing.

November 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Margolf

I see lots of questions asking if coach is going to be AVAILABLE to everyone OR MANDATORY to everyone -- but I'm still not clear what the answer is.

Are we going to be forced to use Coach whether we want it or not - or are we just being giving a choice - and if we don't want it, we can stay with what we have?

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Usagiboy7

@Margolf,

Unless I've missed my mark, Coach will be rolled out site-wide to everyone. It will become a default feature. However, setting it to have a 1XP goal will match the pre-coach streak requirement.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Margolf

it sounds like 'by default' you mean 'mandatory- you get it whether you want it or not - and can't turn it off '

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ptoro

Thank you so much for the communication on this. I (as well as many other I presume) love to hear any/all news Duolingo related! Please keep us updated like this in future too!

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AdrianJosh

'The current word count is now visible at the top of the vocabulary page An alert appears when you initially turn on Coach indicating that it will affect your streak We added a new test which puts the XP left in order to level on the profile page'

those things will be added when everyone has it? because it is not visible yet as me being tested. if that happens that is the greatest improvement i could tell!

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/_JesusG_

Yes, I've just "been assigned a coach" and have no way of knowing how many XP's are left for my next level-up. I want my XP bar again.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/fortytwovex

You can access that information only from your profile page now. I agree though --I miss the bar.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

Only some can. That's an A/B test. The rest of us have to use apps or JavaScript controls to keep track. Or, write everything down. Not quite the same, ha ha.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/fortytwovex

Oh. That's asinine.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Ezkertia

If you are using apps or JavaScript controls to keep track, is there any way for that to be taken into account in the A/B test? Otherwise, you are just skewing the results in the wrong direction.

November 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Ezkertia

You are obtaining data DuoLingo assumes you don't have and thus behaving to some extent like a member of the group DuoLingo has not assigned you to. The whole A/B test is built on the assumption that people may behave differently with that information than without, so you are skewing the results. I would like to have that information too--I really miss my XP bars--but I don't want DuoLingo to conclude from my behavior that it's not necessary to give that information to everyone (or worse, that it's better if they don't!).

November 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

I am simply viewing it, what's the harm in that? It isn't as if I'm doing it constantly anyway, as I have only checked it once. I highly doubt that will affect any testing. Now, I could see manipulating it to show the XP bars as possibly skewing results, but in the end, reading my own data is hardly a problem for the test.

November 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

No, we aren't skewing any test results. We're simply plugging in a string (or whatever the technical term may be), and finding our data. Nothing to it.

*Can't read today.

November 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Mirifis

Same for me. I am learning Danish and, maybe because the language is still in beta, I have no vocabulary page. So I can't see my word count !

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/LiFicreator45

I am using the coach and I can't find the progest to the next level, so I want to know how I can find it.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/fortytwovex

They took that away (at least for the time being).

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/LiFicreator45

ok thank you so much!

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ksihota

"We added a new test which puts the XP left in order to level on the profile page"

Does this mean its already implemented, being tested by a specific group or in the process of being coded?

Here are my 2 cents worth:

I'd rather see all statistics in a central location.
I find the lingots useless (maybe someone needs to figure out some other ways they can be used) I previously used the streak as a motivator until I lost it all when the coach took over (first I didn't realize a streak was maintained by completing a section - thought it was just about practicing and lost my first week or so. Then when I tried the coach I didn't realize I had to meet my minimum setting - lost over 100 days, then lost another when I missed completing the section before midnight - my clock was different than the computer) anyways it cured me of trying to maintain a streak. Used Word Count as a motivator until it disappeared with the coach ( didn't even realize that the WORDS section existed until I read about it here (goes to show how much people ignore menus) I do like to have summaries on the main page. I definitely think that each language should have its own set of statistics (although I only can deal with learning one) I am interested in seeing when I started, how much time I practice each day, what days I miss etc. maybe in some form of timeline or graph that could also show when certain milestones were met (ie reached 1000 words etc) This would be way more interesting to me rather than seeing where I am on a streak. Besides it would show you each streak you had since you started.

Personally I think DuoLingo is fantastic (even with its flaws) I recommend it to everyone. I wish it had been around when I was taking French and Spanish in high school and University. I might have even been multilingual by now rather than struggling trying to learn a second language that I should have learned 40 years ago. Oh, if someone had only developed the personal computer earlier.

November 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/stefanschets

I have to say that the Coach has made me LESS willing to take more time in Duolingo each day. I used to get more than 100 points per day because I wanted to level up. Now I get my daily goal of 50 and I leave it be. I am not a fan of the Coach and wish my levels were back where I could see them. Give me back my levels and I will spend more time here!!

November 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/DogePamyuPamyu

What about a "SET YOUR OWN" amount?

Don't the XP amounts seem really stupid to you guys? I am on "insane" doing 50xp per day in Dutch and I find that it makes me actually study LESS. I could do 200 xp in an hour if I wanted to, 50xp usually takes me 10 minutes.

I doubt I'm "that good" at languages, there must be others who also find the XP amounts ridiculous.

November 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ksihota

Wow, I wish I could do that. Isn't 1 lesson/activity = to 10 XP points + 1 extra for each heart you don't lose? It takes me about 10 to 15 minutes to complete one of these and most of the time I don't have any hearts left because of typos or stupid mistakes. If I lose all my hearts then I have to restart the lesson again (no XP gained) and my time gets longer. I keep reading in the discussion where people have theirs set to 1 XP point. How can you get 1 XP point? The lowest number I get is 10 and the highest is 13 for a lesson. I must be missing something or maybe I should just give up on trying to learn another language. My coach is set to 20XP which I can do most days (highest ever was probably around 100) but I'm lucky if I have 30 to 60 minutes free in order to get this done on a daily basis.

November 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/writchie4

Immersion gives you XP much faster than normal lessons. With regular (untimed) lessons, you can get a maximum of 13xp. Timed practice gives you between 1xp and 20xp, depending on how many you get right before the time expires.

Immersion works much differently though, and the XP you get depends on your "translation tier". For users in the highest translation tiers, every sentence they rate gives them 5xp, and they get 1xp for every word in sentences they translate. The rates are lower for users in lower tiers, of course, but it's still possible to get XP faster with Immersion.

In any case, you should realize that the amount of XP you earn is only vaguely correlated with your ability to learn a language. Getting lots of XP by doing the "easy" lessons over and over again doesn't mean you're better at Spanish than somebody who only gets 10xp in one of the harder lessons. Sure, it's great if you have lots of time to dedicate each day, but you can definitely finish the tree only doing 1 exercise a day. That's what I did for most of my Spanish tree, and it worked out all right. :)

November 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ksihota

Thank you, I never really looked at this because it looked too intimidating. Guess I better just go for it.

November 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/wynrich

Also ksihota, another way to get as low as 1 XP is to do the timed practice. As long as you get one correct before you run out of time you'll get credit for all the ones you do get correct. This is a great way to keep your streak going if you don't have time to do more or when on a trip and have poor internet connection.

November 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ksihota

Thank you, more useful information.

November 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/PabloSueno

I suppose the coach might be a motivator for me if I were masochistic, but I am more the obsessive-type. Other than the main goal of actually learning the language, the streak, the experience bar and the lingots (even though they are worthless, I can 'collect' them) are significant sources of motivation for me. Now you have added a 'coach' feature that would jeopardize my streak, and have eliminated the experience bar. As you might guess, I am less than thrilled.

November 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/abelishka

Hi, I know you've gotten lots of feedback already, but I just wanted to chime in and say that I really miss being able to see how many XPs I've earned per language on a given day--it helps me keep on track with regard to how much time I spend on each language. I also miss having the progress bars on the home page. I don't mind the coach, but I don't find it particularly motivating either; frankly, if I bother studying a language on a given day I'm always going to do two or three lessons, so the coach doesn't make much of a difference. Thank you though for all your hard work! I love duolingo and I recommend it to all and sundry.

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/e-Xcat

OK, never mind the coach, I can do with or without it. I'm here every day anyway because I don't want to lose my streak. But I really NEED my progress bar! Please, Duolingo! Get it back somewhere! I don't even see my XP on desktop, only on mobile!

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Owlish_Owl

I'm sorry, maybe I missed... But I'm just wandering:

  1. WHY did you do this coach thing, why is it needed?
  2. Now, to see word count, I have to go to Words page. To see my XP count, I have to go Profile page. To see something else, I probably will have to go to some third page. I never need to see the Coach, but it's always conveniently there. ---- WHY?

Why was all this necessary?

November 29, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Miranda.Metheny

But we don't have to turn it on, right?

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/FrenchCrazy

I believe if you don't touch it then it's set to 1XP, so do a lesson/review and your streak persists like normal.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Andowatalks

hi there, i think the coach is a good feature. But I also think there should be an option to personalize it.

At the moment I'm more confused about it than it being helpful, because I'm learning more than one language at once, so I'm tending to learn only more of one language in order to meet the goal-xp for the day. Therefore it would be a real help to set up the coach so that you can choose which language or languages you want to use it on or not use it.

(and also - even though it my not be the place here - I need the graph for the progress for each language back! ;__;)

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/buffalump21

Well, I'm not impressed by the coach at all. I WASN'T alerted to the fact that it would affect my streak. I thought it was just a bit of "harmless fun" like the fact that you can change the owl's clothing. Consequently, I've just lost a 250 odd day streak (or thereabouts) and it has affected my motivation big time as I was really looking forward to hitting the 365 day streak. It might sound trivial to some but it was to be my reward for all the time I've spent plugging away when I could have been doing something else. I feel as though I've done all the prep but then been told I can't sit the exam. Honestly, I could cry! :-(

November 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

Debbie - Write on bchan's activity board - she can look at your activity during those days of the switchover to Coach and she will restore your streak. She's really nice!

November 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/shalfyard

Still haven't set a goal... Still refuse to set a goal because it's just not what motivates me. XP in general doesn't do a whole lot for me as I've noticed people WAY ahead of me in level but WAY behind me in what they know and vice versa.

November 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/PSukys

Hey, with coach being around, where did the XP to level information go?

November 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

Under your username in the top ribbon, there's a drop-down menu; click on "Your profile." A new page will open up with the languages you're studying, your levels, and how many points are needed for you to reach the next level. :)

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/_pinkodoug_

The level and xp details in the sidebar of the profile page is being AB tested. It isn't available to everyone, so this advice will only be useful to a portion of users.

Those that don't have this information on their profiles page can follow these instructions to get to the same information. Also there's a user script that returns the exp bar to the main page if they want to search for it.

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Ezkertia

But if you go get that information or run the script to restore the XP bar, you violate the assumptions behind the AB test. If I were a researcher conducting this test, I'd want to exclude your results because you no longer satisfy the criteria for inclusion in the population you were assigned to. But DuoLingo has no way to know they should be excluding your results. If enough people use these techniques, it could have an adverse effect on the way DuoLingo interprets the results of the test, and could lead them to conclude that it's not necessary to provide total XP at all. That in turn could lead them to take total XP out of the JavaScript, and then your workarounds would cease to work. I realize that sounds a bit far-fetched, but the best thing to do would be to let the experiment run its course, and to let DuoLingo know of your dissatisfaction.

November 15, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

How about keeping the coach, but separating it from the streak? In other words, your streak is prolonged as long as you log in one XP, as it used to be. But you can set the coach to whatever value you want. I would really love to have it, if it only didn't endanger my streak on days where my real-world job keeps me too busy to even sleep enough. I know I could re-set it to one XP on those days, but that's making me spend time exactly when I don't have any to spare.

November 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Jay_Daniel

I am quite happy to be part of whatever scientific tests that Duolingo wants to do. They've given a great product, FOR FREE, so that buys them infinite patience and grace from me, but with that being said...

I really want to see my progress bars again. That's what motivates me the most.

November 9, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/MarcusvanSkijm

How do I switch the coach off? I want to know where I am in the levels and don't care tuppence whether I have met my "personal goal" of 1 XP. Daft idea.

November 9, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/xiarra

There is no way that I know of to switch coach off. You can generally check levels by going to profile. If you want to maintain a set number of points per week per language, right now you have to use something else. I use Beeminder to track my personal goals (It's what I'm using to make sure I'm still progressing in both Danish and Spanish since my 1 xp goal can be in either - love the graphs!)

November 9, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/MarcusvanSkijm

I can see what levels I am on, but I want to know how many more points are required to get to the next level. This information seems to have been removed and replaced by something completely useless. I was hoping that I could switch the coach off again, having foolishly switched it on.

November 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/mgaristova

until the progress bar comes back I use this: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/5303747

November 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/hscer

This change completely demotivated me. I made it about a week before neglecting things yesterday. I am not just trying to make a point, either. I've lost a longer streak than 60 before, but that time I actually cared. This time, I will just leave this post to let somebody know that this Coach thing can and will push some people away from DL.

November 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/stefanschets

"Selecting a daily goal will help you stay motivated while learning a language." Yea, not so much. Because I selected an easy goal of 50 points per day, the first day I neglected to get that 50 points my streak was ended at more than 30 days. I worked hard to get that streak going, Duolingo, but now this stupid Coach ended it. Needless to say I've changed my daily goal to 1. Stupid. Bring back the levels. This Coach sucks!

November 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Echostreak

Is there any way to revert from using coach to not? Just wondering.

November 12, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/e-Xcat

No.

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Echostreak

I thought so. I really need the progress bar.

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/MarcusvanSkijm

The coach is really awful and annoyingly pointless. I want to see how many words I have learned and how many points in each language and how far I have to go to reach the next levels and all that useful information has been replaced by some useless stuff that is of no interest whatsoever. By all means let people who want a stupid "coach" have this feature, but can the rest of us please have the ability to switch the damned thing off! [/rant]

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/MarcusvanSkijm

"The goal here was to see if the Coach could improve the overall experience, and we found that it does! "

It doesn't.

How does telling me something I already know help anything at all? It's not like I can't count how many XPs I've done in one day! Take it away and give us back our progress bars!

November 28, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Eey91

They won't. For the xp bar take a look at this

November 28, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Oneduhhh

Thank you! :D

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/wenyue47

I really really miss the brief introduction of each module. It always gives the clearest explanation of the new topic, which helps the learners understand the module better. Can it come back in the near future? Looking forward to seeing it coming back! Thank you a million!

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/supainanoko

That is still there on some courses if you are talking about explanations. At least for Danish they seem to be adding them. Later lessons don't seem to have any though. Although maybe they got vanished by the Coach; I was in the control group so I don't know what it affected besides XP and streak.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/knittingirl

Thanks a lot for the update! It sounds like Coach II will be a great improvement on the current one. I would also advocate language by language XP counts, but I still have them at the end of Andoid app lessons, so it's not a big deal for me.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/InSoloChristo

It seems to have just come out… doesn't look too bad! Except that now I'm offically insane.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/writchie4

So... now that I've got the Coach feature, I'm curious why it is still asking me to "activate" it. How is having a non-activated Coach different than the previous behavior before I was given Coach?

If these two situations are exactly the same (as I assume they are), wouldn't it have made more sense for the Coach to be instantly activated with a goal of 1xp (to match the pre-Coach behavior), rather than asking me to activate it myself?

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

It's not different at all. It's exactly the same as before, without Coach.

Possibly.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Margolf

the whole issue we have all been complaining about is that this coach thing is forced to be used- AND using it means we lose the measurement and tracking we have been using and that we want to continue.

For weeks people have been asking simply that if they are going to add coach that they do it without taking away the measurements we have - and without forcing the loss of the daily streak if we didn't meet some arbitrary activity threshold set by duolingo.

It appears that duolingo did back off the activity level by making the default '1 XP' - but they completely refused to allow us to keep the measurements we had when they turned on coach today -- so now we're told they are testing it and will get them back someday...if the test goes....many of us remember this same routine with words...and it was many months before we got anything back on that...

I'm coming up on a one year anniversary with duolingo- and while I really loved this at the start, the way change management and user communication processes are implemented is starting to push me away rather than encourage me to do more.....

This particular change is disruptive and annoying purely because of the take-away that is being forced at the same time. It was unnecessary to do it this way.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

Well, Words was a different case, because of the new challenges that the renovated design presented, as well as greater focus on the Incubator and getting Duolingo out to more countries. Words went away at the wrong time.

I agree that it could have been handled much differently. Duolingo staff has promised that communication will be handled better, and that our feedback will be listened to (mark the difference between that and acted upon), so at this point, we really can't do anything more. We'll see how this plays out over the next few weeks, but I'm hoping the bar will come back.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/writchie4

I guess I just don't understand the point of requiring users to "activate" the Coach. If nothing changes, then just "activate" it for us. Asking the users to activate the feature gives a weird illusion of choice, when in fact, both "choices" (activating, or not) do the same thing.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

Right.

If it is done manually, users have a sense of control. If done automatically, all heck breaks loose because Duolingo "forced" it on us. It's basically what happened when Apple pushed U2's album to 500 million accounts.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AureliaUK

But in this case, DL has not only effectively pushed out an album many people don't want, but has removed an album lots of people were very happy with and wanted to keep. It feels as though someone has nicked my copy of The Ring cycle and left Rolf Harris's Greatest Hits in its place.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

At this point, I just want the progress bar back. That's really it.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AureliaUK

It's not just the removal of the progress bar, but the way that other useful information has been dispersed and half-hidden elsewhere in order to make room for the coach feature. I now have to go hunting for data that used to be all in one place.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/writchie4

"Coach" has really gotten an undeserved bad rap around here because it's been tied to the removal of the progress bar. Honestly, if you just look at "Coach" vs "Simple Streak, No Coach", Coach is unequivocally better.

The only problem came when the progress bar was removed too. If it was released while maintaining the progress bar, it wouldn't have been nearly as controversial (and, in my opinion, would have been almost universally praised).

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Ricaloca

Thanks a lot; now I will be singing "Sun Arise" for the next two days. boing, boh-BOH-boh-boing, boing. <-- lame digeridoo imitation.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/c3230

I think the coach is great except the "insane" goal should be around 100xp.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/wynrich

I set goal to 20 and was shocked to find out I couldn't change it or turn it off once set. 20 is fine when I'm home, but it's frustrating to know I can't set it back to 1 when I travel. I find it is a challenge to maintain streak when I travel and have bad internet or phone service. Sometimes it's hard to even squeak out a 1. And what if I have a period where I want to set my goal higher than 20? Apologies if this is already discussed earlier. (Long thread!) PS. I adore Duolingo. Am just finding this non-configurable feature unsettling.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/silkwarrior

6You have confirmed my worst suspicions (i hadn't read the full thread when i posted above). As far as I am concerned what your post highlights shows me that coach is a dead duck and should be given a good going over in the showers. I may just hop on later and at least activate it to 1 to ensure that I don't accidentally choose a higher figure later.

Have given you a lingot.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Bducdt

I'm able to change the daily goal. There's a gear setting to the upper right of it I can click. I can also click the v next to my name at the top -> Settings -> Coach.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/wynrich

Oh, thank you so much for letting me know that! It is so dim on mine I hadn't noticed it. I apologize for misleading people about this and am thrilled that I can change the goal at will. Is it possible that option was just added? I sure looked hard for a way to change and now am surprised I didn't notice it.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/silkwarrior

no probs

November 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/silkwarrior

Thanks for the info.

Great as DL is, and it is of course free, I am a bit surprised that it took you to point this out - one would have thought that DL would have pointed this out when they launched it, or at the very least jumped into the debate on here when they saw that folks had got this impression.

November 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/albaduine

I love Duolingo and look forward to my language learning session every day. I am disappointed that my XP are no longer shown on the page of each language. When I click on my "Your Profile," I do not see the XP left in level as you mention. Am I missing something? I'm not really interested in the coach feature. I'm already motivated to use DL every day. Maintaining my streak is definitely a great motivator.

As an aside, I used to have a great feature which was only on my Ipad, where I could do a timed competition with another member or with a bot. It was a lot of fun and a way to make several coins golden at once. I loved it. Then one day I updated the Duolingo app and it was gone. Very disappointing.

I'm sharing this just to give my user feedback. As I said I love Duolingo, and will continue using it every day.

November 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/NoNameHaveI

I must really, really thank Duolingo for this feature. I was reaching the last fuel for the flame I had to come and practice, and then I realized that I had coach. I figured, "eh, why not?" Now that I have it set on insane, I have never been more motivated to come and get my 50 XP every day. It keeps me going, and it's the reason I have my first streak over 15 days. Thanks again, Duo. Onward!

November 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/NoNameHaveI

Why was this down-voted? I don't understand.

November 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Bducdt

Because people who can't accept change can't stand it when other support said change.

I agree -- I like the coach feature. I'm not particularly motivated by the streak, because I don't really care if I study every day (I keep my own spreadsheets running to monitor that I am studying consistently), but when I have a goal, "I should strive to reach ___ xp per day, instead of just the minimum," it's really helps motivate me to get there.

November 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Len_H

I do like the coach, it is great, but I wish that you would put the amount of XP one has and the amount needed to level back how it was. Thanks

November 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/sbarbour

I can't find the coach. I'm a bit of a luddite and a struggler. I would like it if when I lose all my hearts I could still access the lesson the better to learn from my errors!

November 9, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

At the end of a lesson, look on the lower left of the screen for a button that says "review lesson." You can see and hear any questions you want to review. I don't know if everybody has this feature or not yet. I even see it after the timed practice sessions.

November 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/SoverCub

My personal experience after a month of having the coach.

After having a good run in the initial days with the coach (20 xp as my goal) I had to lower it down to 1 in some days where I was very busy and wanted to maintain my streak.

Now, I see absolutely no incentive to take it back to 20. After all, It's all about my discipline and it really doesn't do much to change my progress rate.

Providing some incentive lingot wise or similar could make wonders for people having higher xp goals.

November 9, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/SuperDescartes

Did people who lost their streak get it back? I still haven't had mine reinstated :(

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

Try posting on bchan's stream. She can verify your activity and reinstate your streak. I'm sure the staff is really busy, but she is nice. And yes, mine was reinstated. What's the proverb? The squeaky wheel gets the oil. (That makes me feel old and squeaky.) ;)

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/SuperDescartes

Lol, thanks a lot Jairapetyan! Im goign to ask now :D

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Alec100

Thanks! Coach is a really cool feature!

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/FrankySka
Mod
  • 2135

Thanks for the update!

Any plans on seeing points earned separately for each language again? (i.e., a separate progress bar for each language)? Or do I have to keep on scribbling in my notepad like this ;-) :

Alt text

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/bchan

Wow that is really intense. Like really. Intense.

We're running a test so that your points per language appear on your profile page along with how many points needed to reach the next level. Hopefully it performs well!

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/bibeaults

Is it a policy that everything has to go through an A/B test? Honestly, this one seems like a no-brainer that everyone would want. I have actually considered dropping my second language just so I wouldn't have to do this type of self tracking.

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/bchan

Honestly, the test is actually losing right now. Results aren't always completely intuitive or expected. One thing to remember is that sometimes more isn't always better - if you clutter an environment with features that you "assume everyone would want", it could actually degrade the experience overall.

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/bibeaults

This isn't a case of me thinking more is better in my opinion. This was a feature I had that was taken away. I understand, but it is just very frustrating. Right now I have no way of knowing how many experience points I have in any language. I used to see it on the main page where the coach is now. I understand some people have been able to see that on their profile page since before coach even launched. I guess I really should just drop danish so that kind of data is collected by you all. I had been putting it off because I was holding out for the XPs per language to return and I didn't want to have to start back at 0XP.

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/alfasprint

I created separate accounts by language (source language) so I have separate stats. The trouble is, you have to log out/in each time.

I still don't understand the destructive choice. If they wanted to get the coach tested, fine. I'll put a target of one point and forget it. I have my own goals, BY LANGUAGE (1st priority, 2nd etc).

But why did they have to REMOVE the existing parts?

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/bibeaults

I can't reply to Rhynn for some reason, but in any case, I am trying to learn a little Danish for fun. I see it more as a game since I am such a beginner. I am trying to learn German for real. So if it is affecting my German learning, then it is worth dropping it.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Rhynn

Why stop learning a language just because the method you're using is undergoing a minor change in interface?

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Selcen_Ozturk

But then maybe you should also test removing the levels completely. I don't see any point in having a level, when I have no idea when I can level up and how many XP I have. Also having only 25 levels also doesn't make much sense for immersion users.

Btw, what do you test for? XP gained/time spent on the lessons/total time spent on Duolingo?

and, do you have data if people using coach continued learning different languages or if they decided to focus on one? I would guess it is the latter - and I don't know if this is something you want.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Ezkertia

I am in the category of people who stopped working on other languages after the coach was inflicted on me.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

I am glad there are only 25 levels. Immersion users can show their bravura via their translation tier. My Italian is better than my Spanish and I wouldn't work on it at all if I couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel (level 25).

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ComradeFrancis

"sometimes more isn't always better - if you clutter an environment with features that you "assume everyone would want", it could actually degrade the experience overall."

In that case, will we be given the option to remove the coach?

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/_pinkodoug_

That information is sort of out of the way when it's relegated to the profile page. If you don't mind me asking, how does that factor into the test results? I wonder whether a pair of tabbed slides on the main page's side bar might be more useful. One for "Achievements," like what's currently being AB tested on profile pages, and one for "Daily Goal" / coaching info.

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/bchan

There's a difference between "it's doing nothing" and "it's losing" - my initial estimate was that it would do nothing (because of what you said, where it is sort of out of the way) in which case we could simply push it. If it's losing, then it is actually doing worse.

Don't worry though - the reason we end up running tests for longer than people tend to appreciate is because we make sure our results are statistically significant before going with them. This means that over time, a test need to consistently perform better each day before it can be said to have won. Otherwise, you have a lot of noise in your results and can't really gather anything trustworthy. There's enough noise at the moment in this test that we're just waiting for more information.

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/foxtrotwhiskey9

If this test fails, I really think you should attempt putting this information (for the currently selected language) on the Home page again and testing that, along side the coach. I almost NEVER go to my profile page. That's for other people to go to to find out about me. Also the way the information is presented there (in a scrolling div) is ugly. It should look like a progress bar. That is far more motivating. Especially when you're close to completing a new level.

November 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/davidalso

Meant for @bchan:

To be clear, you're not saying that you keep running the test until you get statistically significant results, right?

Also, do you have standard requirements for effect size?

I do ed research, so I'm just curious.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/mastuhhugecook

Hallo pinkdoug ich bin mastuhhugecook. Ich bin 16 jahr alt. Wie alt bist du?

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ludwigzhou

I really dislike the AB tests. Why not let us (at least the "old" users) decide which function to use?

Leave me a response if you disagree with what I said. Merely downvoting my comments won't help me :)

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/DeeRamm

I think Duolingo is to be commended for actually making some, not necessarily 100% popular, decisions. If they yielded each time and offered optional features, then the whole system would grow much larger and eventually become unmaintainable. We've all seen software that starts out as a nice clean package and then, eventually, dies under its own weight. A/B testing is the only way to see that things improve rather than just change.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/psifish

Personally, I like the AB tests. But then, statistics is a big part of what I do for gainful employment, so I find it fascinating.

If you think of yourself as a customer, then "the customer is always right" and you should be able to choose which function to use. However, if you think of yourself as a partner in this endeavor, then we have a responsibility to help the Duolingo staff make the "best" language learning program that the world has ever known... and we get to use it for free.

So, the staff did the AB test and they found that the coach produced statistically significant better results (they have been a little vague on what "better" means). You personally might not like the coach (I don't care for it on iOS, although I don't have it on the website), but they have a scientifically justified reason for implementing it.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Geo430

The A/B tests split users up into two groups: experimental and control. We can assume that they are randomly selected. Watching the trends in usage of both new users and the "old" users is needed. Otherwise, they only have data for one part of the population. (They could block for amount of usage, which it seems as if they did, and view usage trends of old and new users within the experimental group separately). Having the groups be self-selected would introduce bias into the study. People who opt for a feature would be likely to use it, so the usage trends would increase. Plus, you can't really allow people in a test to voluntarily leave it. This bias will mean that the data drawn from the test are invalid. No conclusion can be drawn.

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/SamiraClemens

I completely agree with you! And I think the more freedom we have for instance which function to use enables us more to show what we can and are able to in our target language than strict regulations and tests that are often so boring and do not really demand that we think before we "solve" the task, so that I find it hard to concentrate on the test, because it is really tiring to repeat stupid things and so you make more and more mistakes. The translations are often much more difficult than the niveau of the level you are still hangning on, but you do much better with them because this is, to say it with Jane Austen "a spur on one's genius", and what you do with interest and concentration brings you results that noone would have thought possible for you, because when your mind wanders because you're so bored you produce so much more mistakes. And you cannot progress.....frustration.....boredom repeated......interest nearly dead. A circulos vitiosus.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Markmcopc

How can it be that this is "losing"? What's being tested, I wonder?

If I fail to practice one of the languages it coincides 100% with those times when I failed to notice that I hadn't practiced that language yet. I know this for a fact, because I have practiced every day for 534 days, the only factor during all that time that has determined whether I practice a particular language, is whether I notice that I haven't yet practiced it.

What sort of test could give any other result?

How about just a check mark for each language that's been practiced today? That would work even better for me than the pre-coach scheme.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/iwc2ufan

I'd like the check mark as well. I can remember easily if I've done the languages I am 'actively' learning in that I am doing lessons, while the languages I am here to review have suffered since the change because I mainly practice them by translation, so whether I've translated a few sentences at least, that can blur for me.

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/_pinkodoug_

Even for a feature that seems like a no-brainer, they still need to test specific implementations to ensure that there aren't unforeseen issues that arise. The good news is that stuff like this probably won't require months-long tests like some features.

cGlua29kb3Vn

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Feeniqs

What is an "A/B test"?

November 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Athenicuber

Alpha/Beta. Alpha is a closed test group, Beta is a public test group. EDIT: Just read PatNevins's comment.

November 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/PatNevins

Alpha and Beta releases (e.g. of software) are a different concept. A/B testing divides the user population into two randomly-assigned groups and gives each group a different user experience, then by some metric (not disclosed in this case), measures which performs "better." An example outside Doulingo might be changing the background color of an Ad banner on a Webpage and seeing which one gets the most clicks.

November 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Feeniqs

Okay, I see......thanks.

November 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Senor_dan

Test. All. The. Things.

Seriously. That's what makes Duolingo so awesome.

November 11, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/laspanishgirl

What’s a A/B test? Never heard of it & new member sort of

November 12, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Ezkertia

It is described elsewhere in this thread, but it means that each user is randomly assigned to one of two groups, A and B. One of the groups gets a particular feature, the other one doesn't. After some time, DuoLingo crunches the numbers and decides whether the feature is helpful or harmful on the whole.

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/laspanishgirl

What’s an A/B test? I never heard of it, but then again, I’m a slightly new member.

November 12, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/FrankySka
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Yay! hopefully :-) Thanks for the reply, and happy halloween!

October 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/tu.8zPhLLnbw9t8G

Hello. I think you missed a point here. The XP's by language that we see on the profile page (which by itself is less user-friendly than on the main page) are the TOTAL points. It does not reflect today's actions.

In my case my target in this account is 35 XP in spanish, at least 20 in Irish and 20 in Danish. Until this morning it wotked OK but now I see a total of 85 XP for the day, all mixed up!

So like FrankySka I have to keep note on a paper of what I did today to see if I meet my indicative target (it's not everything on a single time-session you see...)

In short it WAS ok, why did they want to remove a perfectly working thing? Planned obsolescence I know, I wasn't aware of planned regression.

The only solution I see in the current state of the site, is to have one account by language learned. That means creating as many e-mail adresses for nothing. Bummer.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/writchie4

I suspect a big reason that this new test is "losing" is that the information is displayed in text format, rather than something visual like the old progress bar. Nobody wants to read multiple lines of numbers and do the math to decipher their progress when a simple graphic works just as well. The screenshots I've seen of this new test definitely feel clunky/cluttered.

I hope the team is willing to test some different approaches for showing the information, rather than give up on showing it at all after one test (assuming the current results hold, of course).

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Bducdt

I do a similar thing, but with Numbers/Excel, and use charts to keep track of both short term and long term trends:

alt text

The charts really help for motivation, managing long-term commitment (seeing those empty spots really get you back into gear), and help monitor for burning out, along with satisfying my own curiosities.

Myself and others would greatly appreciate per-langauge XP being accessible somewhere, and exporting excel data would be pretty awesome, too.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ksihota

@Bducdt As pointed out elsewhere in this thread the duo.user line (found in the source of the page) holds a lot of specific user information. Most of this is about the word lists found under Word on the main menu but it also appears to contain your XP points for each Language. I am only doing Spanish so I am not positive about this.

Here is what the language portion looks like (a small chunk of the duo.user line):

"level_points": 1500, "all_time_rank": ["5190407"], "show_practice": true, "points": 6657, "points_ranking_data_dict": {"5190407": {"username": "ksihota", "language_string": "Spanish", "language": "es", "self": true, "points_data": {"languages": [], "total": 6657}, "avatar": "https://duolingo-images.s3.amazonaws.com/avatars/5190407/BJRhofm5NQ", "id": 5190407}}, "placement_test": {"attempts": 1}, "max_tree_level": 28}}, "streak_extended_today": true, "site_streak": 14, "notify_edit_suggested": true,

This part shows each of the OFFICIAL languages - mine are empty except for Spanish *

"languages": [ {"streak": 0, "language_string": "Dutch (Netherlands)", "points": 0, "learning": false, "language": "dn", "level": 1, "current_learning": false, "sentences_translated": 0, "to_next_level": 60}, {"streak": 0, "language_string": "French", "points": 0, "learning": false, "language": "fr", "level": 1, "current_learning": false, "sentences_translated": 0, "to_next_level": 60}, {"streak": 0, "language_string": "Portuguese", "points": 0, "learning": false, "language": "pt", "level": 1, "current_learning": false, "sentences_translated": 0, "to_next_level": 60}, {"streak": 0, "language_string": "German", "points": 0, "learning": false, "language": "de", "level": 1, "current_learning": false, "sentences_translated": 0, "to_next_level": 60}, {"streak": 0, "language_string": "Italian", "points": 0, "learning": false, "language": "it", "level": 1, "current_learning": false, "sentences_translated": 0, "to_next_level": 60}, {"streak": 0, "language_string": "Danish", "points": 0, "learning": false, "language": "da", "level": 1, "current_learning": false, "sentences_translated": 0, "to_next_level": 60}, {"streak": 0, "language_string": "Irish", "points": 0, "learning": false, "language": "ga", "level": 1, "current_learning": false, "sentences_translated": 0, "to_next_level": 60},

the language I am working on

{"streak": 14, "language_string": "Spanish", "points": 6657, "learning": true, "language": "es", "level": 14, "current_learning": true, "sentences_translated": 0, "to_next_level": 843}],

Keep in mind that this info is all on a single line and can be a little difficult to read if you don't know what you are looking for. This information is near the end of the line. I assume you are looking for the points portion so if you do a find "points": it should highlight each of these. You might need to be more specific and search for "language_string": "Italian", "points": or "language_string": "Spanish", "points": or write a little program that searches through and pulls out the specific numbers you want. This data looks like it is for the current date (cumulative) so you would have to pull it each day if you want a running tally. therefore something automated would make things much easier.

Personally, I would like to be able to see this information right in Duo in graphic form showing my XP points for each day since I started. It would then make it clear where my streaks were and what days I missed, highest days etc, and it would allow me to match my learning to what was actually happening in my life at that particular time. Like your top graph.

November 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Balastena

Why force us to go to the profile page to see that information? This is a step back from the previous interface.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ludwigzhou

Still I think after testing ends, options should be given to users rather than simply implementing them to everyone. Also, testing is not very well notified to users (thats more of a general problem though).

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Dasi_

I agee, I'd prefer options as I do like seeing actual numbers (amount to level) rather than bars. If it's simple enough to have and it won't cause site issues, the options to use coach or not, or have progress bars or numbers for xp is something that should be done. Choice (or freedom of) would be something I think most people could get behind.

November 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Ivanka_ps

I used to have that feature (I could see my XP per language on my profile page), and I loved it, but I don't have it anymore. And now I can't see my XP bar either :S.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

Yep, it's in testing, and losing, as bchan said. So, we may keep the flags and the progress bar may make some sort of return. We don't know.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Ivanka_ps

I had always had the progress bar, even this morning, it feels awkward not seeing it anymore xD.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

Welcome to my world. ;) I got a chance to see it on an account my family member made today, and, though the information is there, it's just not the same as the progress bar. It's clearer, I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/lumna

I do not know if the coach is useful or not. I work in education and I know that tracing a learner's progress ìs more important than daily performances. I usuale get 50 xp per day , but I put my goal on 10, just not to be told by an owl that I failed my daily target. I'd really like to see my overall progress and how many xps I need to reach the next level. That's all. Anyway, the time I spend / we spend on DL depends on the free time we have. I can't take a leave from work to keep up with a daily goal.

November 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/iwc2ufan

Same, I have an extremely low target even though most days I get well over 50. Basically, I have gone with the old streak target, which is just 1. I have my own goals that the coach doesn't take into account (nor do I expect it to), so it's a bit pointless for me. My goals daily btw are to do at least one lesson or review of Danish, German and Dutch and to translate or correct at least one sentence in French, Spanish, Italian and Portuguese. I don't have the streak in my own mind if I haven't done that.

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/freymuth

This is great! I really miss being able to see how far I have to go in each language. It's hard to keep track of where you are when you're working on more than two or three trees.

November 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Caroycora

The test for me works well. I can see my experience point in each language individually in my profile and how much more point needed to level. All is back to normal for me. Thanks.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/territech

As an IT support analyst, I appreciate the testing. No matter how great the idea, you learn from the testing. You have my full support on that one, Duolingo!

November 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/delapouite

It looks like we all have our own way to keep track of progress when dealing with multiple languages. Here's my similar grid : http://delapouite.com/duolingo/incubator.html

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/makahiwitk

My goodness @delapouite. It makes my old xls file look very passé.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ConaireMor

If you're as intense as this, it might please you to know that you can find this information by searching the page source. If you search for "language_name", "points" (quotations included) you can find all the information you're looking for: current level, current points in language and in that level, points left til next level, and streak for each individual language. For dutch you have to type "dutch (netherlands)".

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/FrankySka
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thanks this is awesome!

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/bibeaults

Thank you!

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/slogger

FrankySka, I like your style. My tallies are kept in a computer file, and look like this right now:.

2014/10/31/Fr (Halloween)
ru.глаголы:прошедшее_2.3.C/009
it.prepositions.7.C/108
2014/11/01/Sa
ru.глаголы:прошедшее_2.3.C/007
it.time.1.L/115

Currently just two languages on Duo, and "Russian" is only a token to keep the streak going until I resume (sorry 'bout that). Earlier this year there were 3 languages, so here's a screenshot.

Imgur

The figures came in handy when Duo was fiddling w/ XP presentation early in the year and it was hard to tell what I'd studied during a week, and who knows, Duo may fiddle around like that again.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/FrankySka
Mod
  • 2135

thanks. So do you enter this manually? Or does it get read in somehow?

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/slogger

You're welcome.

So do you enter this manually? . . .

Manually. What I do is nothing fancy: replicate the previous day's entry, change the date, and remove the scores at the ends of the lines. When done with a language for the day I fill in the XP score and change the current lesson name/number/status, if necessary. It takes very few keystrokes in that editor, and I just keep the editor open in a separate window, so it is easy to switch to. I could write a little script to make an entry, I suppose, but this is so easy it is not worth the bother.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Brijsven

(VIM FTW)

November 12, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/slogger

Absolutely. (I hope you're not being sarcastic.) GVIM only because it handles multiple alphabets (utf-8) better in this environment.

November 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Brijsven

No sarcasm. All flavours of VIM are great!

November 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/slogger

You've got that right! Great stuff.

November 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/makahiwitk

Luckily I realised that the Coach was probably going to come, regardless of what users have said in the discussions. So, I have been keeping a spreadsheet to track the 9 courses that I am doing - along with all my Word documents. Yeh - paranoia wins :-)

Once again though, I'm in the test group, as there are just flags on my profile.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/DeanG6

Wow. Very cool. I may start doing something like that to chart some of my progress that isn't being done by the current software.

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/kplife

Now I see your secrets FrankySka

November 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/dswynne

How do you make time to do the exercises and practice? What's your "secret"

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Luis_deAraujo

Wow that's crazy.

I don't know if anyone has already suggested this, but have you tried using an excel spreadsheet? It would organized the same way you have but it'd be 10x more efficient and easier for you.

November 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Athenicuber

Thank my pagan lords I only am learning one language and won't have to do that until I start Esperanto.

November 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Athenicuber

I was expecting a little more backlash at that. This community is pretty nice.

November 6, 2014

[deactivated user]

    That is all of these; cool, crazy, meticulous, dedicated, and awesome! Nice handwriting too. Bonne chance!

    November 4, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/e-Xcat

    OMG! What a table!

    November 4, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/Dasi_

    I see each language xp and points to level individually on my profile page so I thought in was a new feature already. I hope this isn't something that will disappear. I guess that means I'm part of the test bchan was talking about?

    November 6, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/territech

    I do the same thing, but on a spreadsheet. (If you don't have one, you can use one on Google for free.) Somewhere on a discussion thread I got a list of the number of words for both languages that I am studying. Now I periodically update my spreadsheet with the number of words I have learned (according to Duolingo) and divide that by the total to see what percentage of the course I have completed. So far as I can tell, Duolingo does not track progress through the tree. XP points doesn't help, because you could get 6000 points just practicing lesson 1. Levels only consist of XP. I'm concerned with how much farther I have to go to complete the course.

    I wish we didn't have to give up the streak to use the coach. Using both together could be helpful, along with a measure of progress through the tree and a measure of words learned.

    November 7, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/rlbjr1

    You could simply make a spreadsheet

    November 8, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/Beta-Tron

    hahaha

    November 13, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/TheLdawg

    Thanks duolingo and the duolingo team, you're the best!

    October 31, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/ChrisLaughlin

    IRISH LANGUAGE PRONUNCIATION - it's awesome that you've released an Irish language course, but the pronunciation is not good. Please, please, please hire a native speaker to redo the audio. How are people supposed to learn Irish if the pronunciation in the course is so far off? This is really important. Please do something about it.

    November 3, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/Jackie00010

    It would be better if you posted a new thread. This one is about the Coach feature. :)

    November 4, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/ChrisLaughlin

    You're right. My apologies.

    November 4, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/wstockall

    I thought they had done the Irish course with a native speaker recording the voice. Did they revert it to a text to speech system after the fact?

    November 3, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/ChrisLaughlin

    It seems that instead of using someone who grew up with Irish as their first language (and then learned English), they used someone who grew up with English as their first language and then learned Irish later in life. I've not an expert in Irish myself (just someone who really wants to learn, and wants to use DuoLingo to do so), but there is a lot of commentary in various discussion forums - from native speakers and advanced learners - that the person in the recordings doesn't speak well at all, and in particular that she fails to differentiate between between broad/slender consonants, which is apparently pretty important. As a result, the risk is that learners of Irish around the world, including those within Ireland, end up learning a fundamentally incorrect interpretation of the language - which would be a real tragedy - and that many, like myself, will avoid learning at all because the DuoLingo version is flawed and we don't want to learn incorrectly. Irish is such a rare language, with so few resources for learning, so having the DuoLingo lessons be incorrect in the way they are could do some real damage to the language - and that would be beyond sad, especially when native speakers have easily recognized the problems with the recordings and have even volunteered to re-record the text. The only solution, and we all hope DuoLingo will do it, is to re-record with a true native speaker.

    November 3, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/TroyMullane1

    Thanks for all the hard work! To follow up on another question, it looks like you have added aggregate points and points left to next level for each language we are learning, but will it ever be possible for the coach to be split by language? Just think this might be helpful if, for example, someone already had a high level of confidence in one language (French, for example) but was really trying to push hard to learn another (call it Danish) quickly. In this case, they might have a goal of only something like 10 points a day to maintain their French, but want to do 50 points per day to get up the learning curve with Danish. Will this ever be possible?

    It would also just be nice to know if I had hit my goal all in one language, or, as someone trying to do multiple, by evenly spreading out the points.

    Thanks!

    November 4, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/OnesimusUnbound

    That's DL, mis amig@s - base on data, not opinion.

    November 4, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/VyvcR6

    Thank you so much for Coach. Before the Coach feature i would just get one xp point on a given day and call it quits. Now i have to get 50 or more. And with it set to 50, after 50 whats another 50 once your on a roll!!!

    November 4, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/Cyndiluwho

    I have no clue what any of this means. I just noticed that the home screen changed for me but I'm not clicking on anything that may make me lose my streak. I also think that Duo could give better explanations for things for us poor non-sophisticated users. For example, what is an AB test? I kind of have an idea what XPs are but I figured it out for myself, I still don't know a formal explanation. I don't know what the point of the coach is. I didn't know that the timed lessons can get you more XPs until I bought the app. What I'm saying is that if there are any explanations for anything on this site, it's not obvious where they are.

    November 4, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/Trisha1961

    Thanks for answering. So just to clarify, do I have to do my every 8 languages every day in order to keep up my daily streak? Will my old streak continue to appear, as it does not seem to anymore on my mobile, it just says track progress day 2 now. Also, how do we know how many points we have to get to get to the next level? Will that come back at some point?

    November 5, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/Bducdt

    I believe the goal applies to all languages, at least "___ for English Speakers" courses. Set it to your desired goal, and meet that goal using any combination of languages.

    November 5, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/e-Xcat

    Yes, unfortunately, by not meeting your goal you have irrevocably lost your streak. You need to start from day zero now. I don't know about all languages (I'm learning only one). But I guess it's a total goal for all languages, not per each language. The points to the next level (progress bar) is a quite missed feature. We are all begging Duolingo team to get it back.

    November 5, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/Trisha1961

    Just found that on my mobile app, you can't have the goal settings at 1 - but 10 is the lowest. Anyway, thanks for the replies, I guess the worst point is just not being able to see your progress, as that was certainly a motivation. I don't really like the coach at all, but I expect I will get used to it over time, just seems a shame to have introduced that aspect to what was already an excellent style of learning languages.

    November 5, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/jessicaandTU

    no thankyou ...

    November 5, 2014

    [deactivated user]

      yeah I noticed that formally existent exp bar is now gone. I was kind of a weekly or semi-long term goal for me.

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/wakz

      I just want the progress bar back; it is very annoying without it sometimes

      November 14, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/athanais

      I could be extremely oblivous, but... where is the vocabulary page?! o.O

      November 20, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/freymuth

      Dutch doesn't have it at this point, and I'm not sure if German does. On the blue bar across the top of the page, you should see "Home Words Activity Discussion Immersion". If you click on "Words", you should see a list of the words you have learned. I'm not sure if the mobile app has this, too.

      November 20, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/athanais

      thanks :) german has it indeed. (not very useful though :/)

      November 21, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

      I would actually love to use the coach if it didn't mess with my streak. If it played a fanfare when I reached my daily goal, I'd happily use it.

      November 22, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/s28302560

      gracias senorita

      October 31, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Dr.Manhattan95

      Thank you! Communication is all we really need. :)

      November 1, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/whitnadia

      How does turning on coach affect your streak? I realize that there will be a new number of points needed to maintain the streak, but: Will my streak go back to 1 if I turn it on?

      Coach has just been sitting there asking me to "Set your daily goal" since the beginning of the AB test. But I've been too scared to lose my streak.

      November 1, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

      My streak did not go back to one (I turned it on and set it to 1). I always earn my XP with an upvote in Immersion, then refresh the page. There is a glitch at the moment (at least on my end) that is affecting a prompt showing of the checkmark. I always refresh it to ensure that my points are registered, then I go on to do whatever.

      Though, I am hesitant to change the goal. I don't want it to malfunction and get stuck at a high level on the days that I may not reach it, and so on.

      November 1, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/whitnadia

      Cool. Thanks!

      November 1, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

      Mhm, no hay de qué. :)

      November 1, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/phenglai

      Will those of us who lost our streak when this was first rolled out 3 weeks ago ever get our streak restored? My streak ended at 64 days and I had to start over since I did not know this feature was turned on.

      November 1, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/bchan

      Done

      November 1, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/phenglai

      Thank you so much! I have had a ticket open on this for over 3 weeks. You made my day!

      November 1, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/arEf.theBest

      I had that problem too my steak days is lost while i trained every day my only fault was that i did not know how the coach will work , i will be very thankful if you show me a way to get my streak back i think i am on 68 days streak but i see only 17! [sorry for lack of English knowledge i`m not a native English speaker ]

      November 2, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Ontalor

      Thanks so much for the update!!

      November 2, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/fofoladze

      Thanks a lot. It works! I am actually in Germany and my biggest problem is to follow the native speeches. Sure this Coach will help my poor 'processor' to process faster.

      November 2, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/austin_ma

      why do you have a star around your icon?

      November 2, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Usagiboy7

      Blue ring with a star in the forums are staff. Green rings are forum mods. :)

      November 2, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/alilolo1392

      that's great idea

      November 2, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/tanita44

      Cool

      November 3, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Ali-Alex

      thank you for this wonderful app. I wonder if you can support multi profile on iPhone. also, support learning more than one language in the same time thank you

      November 3, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Sparklygirl50

      Thanks the update will help a lot.

      November 3, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/CestunmoiToad

      Where is my bar for the xp I have no Idea what level I am.

      November 20, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Sparklygirl50

      Thank you for your all the effort you put into this site.

      November 3, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/barb7

      where are the tests are they restricted to level ? I;ve not found them yet but will be ready for them soon... Thanks Barb7

      November 3, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/KarenHJensen

      So what happens if we don't set a daily goal?

      November 3, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

      Nothing, you keep on going as before, that's how it should be. If it's not activated, theoretically, you are in still in the "old system".

      November 3, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/tomerisrael

      Can I remove the coach? it has ruined my 90 days steak :(

      November 4, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/eliadeliad

      You can set it to basic.

      November 4, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/tomerisrael

      I want to get rid of it, to see how much XP are left until I get to a higher level in each language. Coach distorted everything.

      November 4, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/eliadeliad

      You can still see that in your profile.

      November 4, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/_pinkodoug_

      The XP display on the profile's sidebar is an AB test that is only available to some users. Those without it have no way of seeing that information without resorting to peeking at the page source or doing something like what I describe in this thread.

      November 4, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/tomerisrael

      Thanks mate!! it's awsome!!! too bad that Duolingo don't let us see it without further actions like the one you suggested. thanks anyway mate :)

      November 6, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Ariaflame

      Luckily I'm only learning 2 languages on here. So I've set the coach to half of my usual daily goal, will get to that on one of my languages and then make sure I do the same amount again on my other language.

      November 4, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/taylerjames

      gracias

      November 4, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/LanceMessi

      I have the coach feature for a day now, and it sucks, oww it sucks, it sucks to the Holly Hell.

      No, I'm just kidding, it is alright.

      But one thing though, does everybody think 50 is insane? I did over 100 or 200 most of the days when I was doing the tests. And now that I'm working mostly on immersion, it takes even less time to earn points. I do more than 300, I did 427 the other day.

      I have an idea, maybe instead of defining a certain number to the highest goal, you can put a little text box there, it would be more flexible.

      November 4, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/kanielc

      I like the coach, it's different and useful. I'm just upset that there wasn't more (or any) explanation that not hitting the daily goal would cause you to lose your streak. I had a 122 day streak that's now gone.

      I had to restart, and now only have 15. It's small, but it was really demoralizing.

      November 5, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

      Denton, post on bchan's stream... she can see your past activity and restore your streak. She is really nice!

      November 5, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/sqreept

      You say that "The current word count is now visible at the top of the vocabulary page" but I cannot see any vocabulary page while learning Dutch. Please help!

      November 5, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Usagiboy7

      It could be that Dutch is still in beta. If you have the vocab feature anyway, it will be in the "Words" tab in the blue bar at the top of your scree. Inside of the Words tab, Spanish/English has a thing at the top left of the feature that says "Words..." I almost didn't see it because it is a lighter color. I'm on ipad so it's still loading. I'll have to wait to see what it looks like.

      EDIT: once it loads it has my word total of 1571. :)

      November 5, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/sqreept

      Ok I get it. But... how can I see my word count until Dutch comes out of beta?

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

      If you go into your JavaScript console, type duo.user.attributes, and scroll down a little, you'll be able to find your word count for all languages. Sorry, I can't provide pictures, but I'll make a tutorial later on today.

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/_pinkodoug_

      Paste this into the console:

      duo.user.attributes.language_data[duo.user.attributes.learning_language].word_count

      Only the word count for the current active language is exposed, so you'll have to switch languages if you want to see other counts (d.u.a.languages only exposes a minimal amount of info to the client, and word count is not included).

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/sqreept

      Thanks a lot!

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist

      Here is the picture tutorial: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/5382884

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/freymuth

      Usagiboy7 is correct. If you check your other languages (that are out of beta, i.e., French, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and English) you should see where it says "Words" in the menu bar at the top. Not that you may need to reload the page. Dutch should have this feature some time after coming out of beta, but I don't know if there's a timeline for that.

      November 5, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/sqreept

      Why is that Words is not available in Beta? Is there a technical challenge or is it just another arbitrary decision like the one to remove the Vocabulary section way back?

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/freymuth

      You'd have to ask a moderator or DuoLingo employee why it's not available. My guess is that they have other priorities (e.g., make sure all sentences are correct). Maybe they also want to see that the community is stable; if only a few thousand people out of the millions of account holders show an interest in Irish, maybe they'll never bother refining that course.

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Trisha1961

      Hello, I am just a little confused with the 'Coach' now. Does that mean the normal streak will disappear? I stupidly turned it on for a couple of the languages I am learning, and now it just says my streak is two days (rather than 407) and I can't turn the coach back off. I did not continue to activate it for the other languages once I found that out....do you know therefore whether the long streaks people have will now disappear?

      November 5, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/e-Xcat

      If you turn on the Coach and you don't meet the set goal, you lose your streak. Currently, there is no option to turn it off once turned on. However, you can change it to 1 XP using the gear menu on the right, so you don't lose streak.

      November 5, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/qsefthu

      Awesome! I have been looking for this for days since I had Duolingo. Before I only saw other people have it! Thanks!

      November 5, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/delmadord

      Could this coach thingy end my streak? It was saying "xp goal met" for two days, the plot clearly shows xp in consecutive days, yet my streak and wager got canceled.

      November 5, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/buffalump21

      Yes, see my post lower down. I've just discovered that's why I lost mine. :-(

      November 5, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/hill427

      thanks for that

      November 6, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Dorothy1234

      Well, SOMEBODY LOST HIS WELL EARNED STREAK BECAUSE OF THIS. I'm not angry, but HE is, obviously.

      November 7, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Espiralli

      I am new here (as of yesterday) to Duolingo. Is there a set of site directions posted somewhere? Is that " Coach?"

      November 7, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/davidalso

      I can't think of any set of site directions. I've been here long enough that I don't even remember how I learned to use it. But the coach is definitely not that. It is a setting where you determine some number of points that you want to earn before getting credit for having practiced that day. You may have noticed that little fire logo with a number next to it. That's your "streak," i.e., consecutive days earning points. Your coach setting determines the required number of points to extend your streak.

      Welcome to Duolingo, btw!

      November 7, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Espiralli

      Thank you, David!

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/LanceMessi

      That is actually a good point. I think the coach can be a more active caharacter. Like there were these annoying characters that appeared when you installed Microsoft Office(I don't know how it is today), you were choosing a character and it was moving around the screen and introducing you to everything. Now the coach figure can also work like that, when someone signs-up for the first time. It can introduce itself too. Also it can inform users when something changes.

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/wynrich

      Espiralli, here is an FAQ of sorts. I'm not sure if it is all up to date, but it might be a start. I bookmarked it when I was a new Duolingo user: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/1426103

      November 7, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Espiralli

      Thank you so much, wynrich! Have a Lingot. :-)

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Usagiboy7

      All of the guides have been moved to the Wiki and updated. You can find them here http://duolingo.wikia.com If you are looking for information on the Coach, the wiki has a search bar. Just search for Coach. I hope this helps! ^_^

      (PS I would have added this under wynrich's comment but I wasn't sure if you had email notifications or just the bell.)

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Espiralli

      Thank you very much, Usagiboy! I only have the bell...

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Usagiboy7

      If you plan to be very active in discussion forums etc., I highly recommend the email notifications to keep from missing comments intended for you but that get posted under other people's comments for etiquette or other reasons. To keep them from taking over your inbox, however, you can use this filter guide if you'd like http://duolingo.wikia.com/wiki/Filtering_emails_from_Duolingo ^_^

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/qaa2

      Hi bchan, I have seen your comment in your top article - I have been waiting for the number of points till next streek and checking the profile every day but still cant seem to find it. Is it active already? I am hanging for it. Am I looking in the wrong place?

      Please help - thanks!

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Gwylfai

      I just want to say that I am really finding the coach useful , and thank you for making it available to us !!

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/garrettgu10

      I found the coach very useful. However, the coach doesn't show up yet in the Android app. When is the Android app going to be updated to support the coach? :-D

      November 8, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/JTofSpades01

      Thank you for the update! After reading this, I finally know how many words I learned.

      November 9, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/agher

      I use two languages for learning, spanish and english, and im actually learning Italian and French, I was studying Italian in english and french in spanish in order to practice my french I got to switch to duolingo for spanish speaker but I cannot view my italian stats nor practice it, and vice versa. In both I use the same user. any way to merge this?

      My native language is spanish but I by mistake started Italian Duolingo course in english because i though it wasn't available in spanish, later on i realized duolingo also offered many languages for spanish learners, but it was too late now when I switch to spanish i cannot view i have to start italian from zero i cannot keep the same points and level from the Italian for english speakers, even if it's from the same account (I dont switch account i use the same one).

      I hope i made myself understandable, and thanks for your time and this great learning program!

      I hope something can be done about it.

      November 9, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Usagiboy7

      Hola! Necesita cambiar su curso para ver. Todos sus puntos debe estar esperando por usted cuando regrese a ese curso.

      Haga clic aquí para cambiar su curso. ( Language portal.

      Entones, elija su curso en el menú. (Pero, no haga clic en el texto gris!) Course menu

      Finalmente guardar el cambio. :)

      November 9, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/agher

      millll gracias!!!!!!

      November 9, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Alice54_Maree3.

      What exactly is coach? Up until a few days back I never had it.I would like to know a little more about it before activating it Does anyone have any like or dislikes about it? Thanks

      November 9, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan

      Have you read the 159 comments posted here?

      November 9, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/eif13

      what is coach I am really confused?

      November 9, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Schatzie

      I don't understand. I seem to lost the word count I had, and haven't seen a vocabulary page in ages. What does Coach do besides set daily point goals?

      November 9, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/amirascala

      hello admin ^^ can you reply my question? I'm curious to know how to have streak day? tks so much <3

      November 10, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Miytu

      When trying to determine the best rate for myself I would switch between 50 to 30 words. Switching to a lower rate caused me to loose my streak even though my word count was higher than my chosen word rate. I lost 4-5 days of my streak.

      November 11, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Usagiboy7

      There were some glitches in the test version. The tech team has patched those. However, if you are still worried about it, you can go through the Wiki's Coach Troubleshooting guide and follow the extra precautions. :)

      November 11, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/greeneluke

      sound love the new updates

      November 11, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/angel1227

      The Coach thing appeared on my page yesterday, and I didn't turn it on I just kept going, and today when I got on, my streak was back to zero. Will this keep happening?

      November 11, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/freymuth

      Some account holders were able to opt in, and some accounts were assigned to the test group (i.e., the Coach was turned on for their account). To maintain your streak with the Coach feature on, you'll need to meet your target each day. Any day you don't meet your target, you'll lose your streak.

      Hope that helps.

      November 11, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/angel1227

      Alright :( still sucks, but thank you

      November 12, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/freymuth

      It looks like some people who lost streaks were able to contact administrators to restore them. If you contact bchan, she might be able to help you get your streak back (but I don't know what the conditions might be for doing that).

      November 12, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/davloose

      Haven't we had "coach" on iPad/iPhone apps for a long time now? How does setting a daily goal on the website affect what is set on the iPad. At the risk of losing my streak, don't want to mess it up!

      November 11, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Lzanagi

      No tepuedo pagar para todas las peqeuñas cosas que mehiciste desde encontramos :')

      November 13, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/Jeon-Monica

      What if you want to set a goal that is more than 50 XP per day? The coach won't let me customize my goal...

      November 14, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/GlacetheDragon

      Copy and paste this on any discussion if you want to help Mustache Man take over the world :-{D :-{D

      November 14, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/nonaanne

      To bchan: I have been told that you could help me and would be most grateful if you would. Firstly, no matter how many times I have written, I still do not get an early morning reminder - please let me have it. More importantly: I began studying in May 2013 and have a lot of lingots. Then my computer was out for a few days, and since I have restarted, I am not credited with all the lingots I had obtained from before. As a result cannot take tests etc which ask for more lingots than those I now have. I would much appreciate any help you can give me. Thankyou nonaanne

      November 15, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/qaa2

      I cant find the 'XP to next level' on my profile page. Does everyone else have it?

      November 24, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/qaa2

      I have given Duolingo away - the frustration of having the XP to next level taken away, and no proper communication ... One never knows where one is at overall!

      December 7, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/evelynedh

      No, mine got taken away too and replaced with Coach. I have tried the "fixes" that another thread recommended but they don't work on my computer. I wish Duolingo would just return the information so we can keep track. I read that they are testing it...FYI, I hate it and want the XP levels back. :(

      November 24, 2014

      https://www.duolingo.com/vaida.w

      well I gree to the improvement to help coach and I think it could help tuns of people including me and new timers might like it aswell

      January 5, 2015
      Learn a language in just 5 minutes a day. For free.