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  5. "Tá milseáin sa chuisneoir."

" milseáin sa chuisneoir."

Translation:There are sweets in the fridge.

October 31, 2014

55 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/barbara.gr5

Since there's no way to know whether to use singular or plural, I've reported to them that singular should also be accepted as an answer. I chose the singular and got it wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aria487

2017/05/30 The only choices available are "mhilseán", "mhilseáin" and "milseáin". The word isn't lenited here, so the only correct answer is "milseáin", which is plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chris804944

I'm guessing many changes have happened since this. I don't have choices here. I have to type what I hear, and I don't know the phonetic difference between milseán and milseáin, and I hear the former.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MustaphaFagg

Aria487, you lost me. I wouldn't lenite after tá anyway, right?, but why is milseán not a choice?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1343

Some people get this question as a multiple choice "pick the right word" exercise. The selection of words to choose from isn't always the same - apparently milseán wasn't one of the choices when Aria487 got this question. A year ago.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zeitverschwender

I had to fill in a missing word into 'Tá ---- sa chuisneoir', so I took 'milseán'. Why was it not accepted, but it had to be 'milseáin'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

This seems to be a problem with a number of “Select the missing word” questions; my guess is that they’re only a presentation variant of the usual “Translate this text” questions, since I’ve seen at least one question where four of the five possibilities were grammatically correct, but only one of the five was recognized as being correct. (As a “Translate this text” question, only one of those possibilities would have been correct.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/reggaelizard

At least the man has something to eat in there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fourthclasskill

How do you know if a noun is masculine or feminine please??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ballygawley

Learning through repetition (and making mistakes), and looking it up.

In this case chuisneoir is masculine though, and lenited because of "sa".

http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/cuisneoir


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DennisManey

I'm not sure where "there" comes into the sentence? Can someone explain?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

can be interpreted as 'there is' as well. So this can be 'Sweets are in the kitchen' or 'There's/there're sweets in the kitchen'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DennisManey

Okay, thanks. I've seen it as "Tá ansin..." Is "Tá ansin" a different situation than this sentence? Tá meaning; is, are, there is or there are, this might blow my mind. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

Yes. I don't think Tá ansin would ever be used by native speakers. It would be used more like this, Tá bainne ansin to mean, "There is milk there."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DennisManey

I really appreciate your help. Makes sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/peanutandjelly41

What type of candy needs to be kept in the fridge?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MADasALICE

Frozen ones. In Australia we call frozen treats on a stick icy poles, American's generally call them popsicles, and other English speaking countries call them ice lollies or sweets. So this is likely meant to be read as "sweet" rather than "candy". Or they just wanted us to practice the word fridge and decided it was better to put candy in there rather than put the woman in there again.

Oh and now that I think of it, on really hot days we put our chocolate in the fridge to stop it from melting.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CJ.Dennis

Another Australian here. I don't think of ice creams/icy poles as lollies or sweets. A lolly is still solid at room temperature, even chocolate is solid well above freezing.

It's OK to put supermarket quality chocolate in the fridge but you should never put good quality chocolate in the fridge. It should be kept in a cool, dry, dark place.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanTravers

Chocolate is much nicer when it comes from the fridge.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Suzanwatson

Or even the freezer. Hello, peanut butter cups and Girl Scout Cookies!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joeslugs

Quick question... when do I know to use cuisneoir rather than chuisneoir? I've tried using both but in the different phrases I've used them in, they're both wrong. When do I use the lenited one?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/reggaelizard

The Lenition section actually has a good explanation of when nouns and adjectives are lenited. In this sentence, it's because it comes after the preposition sa (in the), and in the other example you've probably seen here, 'tá cuisneoir agam' (I have a fridge), it isn't lenited because it's just the nominative case and there is no definite article – the literal translation is 'there is a fridge at me'. There are many other situations where it would be lenited but if you practise every day, read the grammar notes and try to expose yourself to as much Irish reading material as you can take, it will come more naturally to you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eolasabu123

Will try what you suggest concerning the grammar hope it works. It's wreacking my head


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrianEllio16

Katalina ... there are grammar notes? where can I find them?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Froggybang

You have to go on the online website, not the app, and click on the... I think it's a light bulb? I sure wish they would put that in the mobile version as well...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tarjava

I really cannot hear the difference in the audio between milseán and milseáin. Is the final n pronounced differently with the plural?


[deactivated user]

    ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    Sorry, couldn't resist. This is actually something about Irish I really, really dislike. Like, really.

    Modern Irish is supposed to have both broad and slender (palatalized) liquid consonants -- r, l and n. These sounds are historically consistent--in fact, Old Irish had four sounds for each liquid but Modern Irish only retained two, having lost the other two a number of centuries ago. Well, it's suppose to have two sounds for each liquid, and like every other consonant, that sound is determined by the vowels next it.

    Supposedly.

    By every legit pronunciation guide and detailed, fussy write-up on Irish phonology I have read so far, there should be a palatalized n in milseáin, and this speaker is not palatalizing it. Why?

    ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    And you can't say it's wrong because hey, it's a native speaker (so we're told) and that's how this native speaker says it. Nevermind it's not historical for Irish overall and modern pronunciation guides still insist it's to be palatalized. Nevermind you could probably find another Connacht speaker who would palatalized it, and then go up north and find Northern Irish speakers who do one or the other. And so on.

    Listen to these recordings of ainm--you will hear the n clearly slenderized in the first one, but not the second, while in the third it's kind of inbetween -- the third sounds a bit like the lightly palatalized n in ainm as Scottish Gaelic speakers say it, which can be hard to distinguish by untrained ears. I have found this inconsistency with nearly every word with a slender n. And it's not even constant within a particular dialect. Someone who slenderizes the n in ainm may just as easily not slenderize in mín or tine and vice versus. It's anyone's guess what you'll hear. I don't think there's any trick or hack for preparing yourself for it. You're just going to live with it until you are comfortable enough with the language for it not to throw you.

    As a learner, you've been taught the rules and you know it's a slender n, so stick with that. If anyone fusses at you about "this is how Gaeltacht speakers speak", just let them. It's things like this that are increasingly isolating Gealtacht speakers from urban and younger speakers, where reverence for a speaker's "Gealtacht cred" outweighs their intelligibility within the broader speaker population. But as a learner, that's not your problem. Just focus on the rules you've been taught. You cannot go wrong with them. You also might want to turn off the audio for this tree and look for other resources to practice your listening skills.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tarjava

    So I was not going crazy, whew :)

    I listened to this audio at least a dozen times in a row, and I could not hear the "gn" I was expecting at the end, from a slender n. I keep making a mistake on this specific 'type what you hear' exercise because I keep writing the singular *milseán" Every. Single. Time. It. Comes. Up. And I giggled every single time from my mistake for forgetting it.

    I can hear the plural in all of the other examples so far, it's only this one that has been causing me a little grief.

    I took a look at ainm and I clearly hear it from the Ulster audio, but not on the other two.

    I don't really want to find "the one and true version" of Irish since I believe I am capable of accepting that both the singular and plural of milseán can be pronounced the same way (just like eau and eaux are pronounced the same in French). It's just a little difficult to determine which one is the right answer without a proper context or definite article, as is the case here.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FearMhaighEo

    It's hard to hear in this sample alright. As far as I'm aware, the "n" in milseán would have a kinda "nosey" sound, whereas in milseán it would sound as if there was a word beginning with a "y" after it. But I've rarely heard milseán (one sweet) in the singular before. (Not sure if I'm making sense here).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TreasaWilson

    No difference whatever on the audio between milseáin and milseán. I'll just have to remember that nobody would bother to put one sweet in a fridge and than announce the fact!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Froggybang

    Good trick! Thanks.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CherylW.3

    Why is "the sweets" wrong


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DennisManey

    The sweets are... would be "Tá na milseáin..." versus "Tá milseáin..." The isn't used in the sentence.

    Tá can sometimes means "there is" or "there are"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

    “The sweets” would be na milseáin.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RozieToez

    Would "the candy is in the fridge" not work as a translation? It insisted on "the candies" which is a more awkward construction in American English.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RozieToez

    Sorry i meant "candy is" wasn't accepted, only "candies are".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

    No — there’s no na before milseáin in the original Irish sentence. “Candy is in the fridge” or “There is candy in the fridge” would work, though, using “candy” as a mass noun.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Searlasmane

    Reported this audio as incorrect 29 May 2017 because the pronunciation of "milseán" and "milseáin" appears identical and it's impossible to distinguish


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyAnn11

    How do you if it is there is sweets or the sweets are


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Froggybang

    "The" is an ( singular) or na (plural). If you don't see either of those two, there's no "the" in your sentence.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
    Mod
    • 1343

    Except when the an is included in sa - sa chuisneoir = "in the fridge"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanMeaneyPL

    I didn't "hear" the slender N in milseáin so I took it as milsean. I guess both make sense in the sentence.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IwanBerry

    Surely if it's "THE fridge", it should be "sa NA/AN chuisneoir"? Or does "sa" mean "in the" rather than just "in"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
    Mod
    • 1343

    "in the" used to be (and still is, in some dialects) ins an. That evolved into sa (san before a vowel sound, sna in the plural).

    One consequence of this is that sa is still treated as though it ended in n when it comes to the "DeNTaLS") rule - you don't lenite words that start with D, T, S after sa - sa dánlann, sa teach, sa séipéal.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Froggybang

    It does mean "in the" :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lyra763942

    I don't seem to have access to any grammar notes for any sections. Why is that? Am i not seeing something obvious?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
    Mod
    • 1343

    Login to the Duolingo website, and when you select a skill there is a light bulb icon if there are tips and notes available for that skill.

    Even if you are doing Duolingo in an app on a phone or tablet, you can login to the website ton the phone or tablet to access the tips & notes if the particular version of the app that you are using doesn't have tips & notes.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DarleenMuh

    Why is "the sweets are in the fridge" wrong when the "there are" translation was wrong in the last question with an almost identical Irish construction.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
    Mod
    • 1343

    "The sweets" is na milseáin - there is no definite article in this exercise.

    This is just one of the inconsistencies in English - add a definite article, and the structure of the sentence often changes.

    Tá milseáin sa chuisneoir - "There are sweets in the fridge"
    Tá na milseáin sa chuisneoir - "The sweets are in the fridge"

    You could translate Tá milseáin sa chuisneoir as "Sweets are in the fridge", but in practical terms, that's not what people actually say.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jamesharmo18

    What is wrong with the answer "the sweets are in the fridge"? Why must it be "There are..."?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
    Mod
    • 1343

    "The sweets" is na milseáin.

    Tá milseáin sa chuisneoir - "There are sweets in the fridge"
    Tá na milseáin sa chuisneoir - "The sweets are in the fridge"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JMOliver71

    Would "Tá an milseáin sa chuisneoir." Be "The sweets are in the fridge." ? Please?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
    Mod
    • 1343

    Not quite. Like Spanish, Irish has a plural definite article, so it would be Tá na milseáin sa chuisneoir.

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