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  5. "Dove l'avevi messa?"

"Dove l'avevi messa?"

Translation:Where had you put it?

June 29, 2013



It took me ages to find a reference that confirmed what was being said in response to Tom's question about agreement of the past participle for verbs conjugated with 'avere' when a direct object pronoun is used, so having done so - here it is:


Hope this helps


In case anyone's interested: "where did you put it" is also accepted.


As long as "it" is of female gender, - something like la bottiglia or so.

Dove l'avevi messa

Note: The l' can stand for il or la but the a tells us it has to be female.

Note: The i tells us it is you (1st pers. sing.) who has put her/it


Maybe a messy question, but would it be Dove l'avevi messi and Dove l'avevi messe if the thing being "put somewhere" were plural masc. or fem.?


It would be "Dove li avevi messi" (plural masc.) or "Dove le avevi messe" (plural fem.)


So it won't be l'avevi or you're just writing it thins way to explain?


Plurals don't elide.

[deactivated user]

    Only lo and la elide, li and le don't.


    This could also be "Where had you put her"! (Eek!)


    Why messa and not messo?


    I think it implies the noun you had put is feminine.


    "where had you put it" can be translated either as"dove l'avevi messo" or " dove l'avevi messa". Out of the context you cannot know if the object is feminine or masculine.


    You are right. You should report it because both messo and messa are perfectly fine (l' could be la or lo)


    That's completely wrong. Because it's messa you know that l' is actually la and that it definitely is taking the place of a feminine noun.


    Wow, this is scary. Jefferey your answer is correct but someone looking to learn something would think you are wrong.

    Maybe they misunderstood that messo would make l' masculine


    messa because the l' is a feminine it; such as mela, chiava


    Lo ostacolo -> l'ostacolo

    Both male and female definite articles can be apocopated. What you say would be true for indefinite articles, that are una, uno, un: only una can be apocopated, so

    Un insegnante-> A [male] teacher.

    Un'insegnante -> A [female] teacher

    [deactivated user]

      That's correct, but it's not an apocope; it's an elision.


      messa because the noun is feminine. But l' is not feminine, it's for both genders.


      You mean... (la) chiavE? :D


      The woman pronounces missa instead of messa.


      Marialramendy: If she missa da pronunciation she messa up. :-(


      Two years later and the mechanical pronunciation is still "mIssa" instead of "mEssa".


      The pronunciation of "messa" is still horribly wrong - reported.


      So does the participle's ending match the it/her/him/them, or the she/he/they/it was or did something? In other words, does it match the subject or object???? Grazie Mille!!!!!!!!!


      It matches the object. Participles will match the subject with verbs using 'essere' in the compound past tenses.




      I have a question, not especially about italian, but english. Could somebody tell me why actually should I write: "where had you put it" instead of: "where did you put it"? Can I use the second one? If not, tell me why. If yes - what is the difference? Thank you. ;)


      BajMaj : The past perfect tense is used to describe an action that took place in the past prior to some other more recently occurring past action. So usually you don't have just the one simple sentence by itself, as in this example, rather you have a compound sentence in which there are two past actions, one of which happened before the other. So: Where had you put it, when your parents asked about the alcohol? Ans: I'd (Ihad) already put it back in the liquor cabinet, before they even arrived home. In other words the tense is used when 2 past actions did not happen simultaneously. Here's another example: I was eating dinner, when you called. Both actions happened at the same time versus I had already eaten dinner when you called. You called at 8 pm and I'd eaten at 6. Or I had put the gun away when the cops arrived. They arrived at 8 and I'd (I had) put it away a half hour earlier. Etc. I hope this helps.


      She says missa not messa


      As "mettere" is a verb that needs "avere" shouldn't it always be "messo" in the above case, with no difference about the gender? There were other sentences where I was wondering about this too. Could anybody please explain?


      GermaineLee: No. When the direct object pronoun is present as here, then even those verbs which use 'avere' change their past participle to indicate the gender of that direct object pronoun. Since the past participle is 'messa' then the "it' referred to must refer to a feminine object. This is true for plural pronouns too.


      Thanks :) you brightened my day


      Glad to have helped. That's one of the nicest compliments. Thanks.


      What's wrong with "where had you placed it"? Shouldn't it be accepted?


      A translation I found is, "Where had you sent it?" È anche possibile?


      The speaker lowers her voice too much on the final syllable. Difficult to understand,


      DL in English we would say this WHERE DID YOU PUT IT?


      Where had you put her?


      Wasn't this a question in "The Silence of the Lambs"?

      • 1522

      Lei mette la lozione nella benna


      so is it the same in italian when we say did put instead of had put i tried did put and it was accepted ??


      Accepted or not, 'did put' and 'had put' are two different tenses, used differently. "Did put" could either express a 1 time action in the past: Where did you put the book this morning?" or depending on context, an habitual action in the past: "Where did you always put your book when you went to school as a child?" "Had put" expresses an action that had taken place before some other past action:" Where had you put the book, before I inquired about it?"


      Why not "have put"? I don't really get the distinction between "have put" and "had put". I know that "have" would be used in passato prossimo so is the distinction something like: I have put it there (at some point in the recent past) or I had put it there (some time ago). It just doesn't seem like much of a distinction???


      "Had put" describes a past action that happened prior to or before a more recently occurring past action. It's used when 2 past actions took place, one before the other. "You had already put the keys in the car (at 6 o'clock) , when I went to look for them (at 7 o'clock)." "You had already eaten, by the time I arrived." etc.


      I kind of get the distinction but not clearly. If those sentences were to be posed as questions I would answer, "I have already..." not, "I had already...". I am a native Californian so maybe that's my problem.


      Bob: I'd probably answer that way too, if I were just answering the question: Have you eaten? Yes, I've already eaten. But if you're expressing TWO past actions in a single sentence, one of which happened before the other, than by right, one is past perfect tense, the other simple past. So: "Have you eaten?" "Yes, in fact I'd already eaten when you called." You wouldn't say: Yes, in fact I've already eaten when you called." Wouldn't that sound strange? I hope these help.


      Thanks, it makes sense to use "had" when followed by a past temporal clause (...when you called.).


      Dear "Tommy": Bravo! Your examples re "had" and "have" were beautifully clear and simply put... it's an art form after all!!! HAVE a lingot


      Bob: Thank you. The lingot was unnecessary since I'm happy to help, but it is appreciated.


      Not Bob but Meroe


      Why is there a space between l' and avevi?


      È un errore (o distrazione) di battitura


      It's probably either an error, or it's meant to make it clearer to learners, but I don't think it's necessary.

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