45 Comments
That's the correct translation, but using the doesn't change the meaning in many cases.
Everyone seems to be glossing over the fact that "ones" isn't even in the sentence. The sentence translates to "Those new are perfect."
In Italian "ones" is not expressed separately. The adjective serves as noun, rather like, for example "rich" when saying in English "The rich are imperfect." Only the good die young = only the good ones die young.
The examples you give are correct and can be said either with or without, but there are sentences, like the one for this exercise, that can't be said without "ones." If you said that to someone, they would look at you "sideways" and say, "New what?" The fact the we leave "ones" off of sentences like the the "ones" you gave is just slang. If one were using formal English, the "ones" would be included.
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The examples given by @cvhughes are perfectly good English, formal or informal. At least here in Britain. You wouldn't normally talk about "the new" in the same way, but it seems the Italians do.
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Actually, come to think of it, "Out with the old, in with the new" is perfectly good English in any context.
The fact that that is perfectly good English shouldn't drive anyone to create a general rule out of it. Well,in my opinion!
Don't think "ones" would help another person to understand you better. He could still aks:"the new ones what?". You don't precise it by including ones in the sentence!
The use of adjectives as nouns are called substantives. They exist in Latin and the Romance languages but aren't used except in rare cases in English.
Those new are perfect does not make sense in English. The Italian sentence does. Sometimes, we have to change the structure of a sentence so it makes sense in both languages. The idea is to stay as true to the original sentence as possible while making a grammatically correct sentence.
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That's been annoying me too! I found this on a website, so can't guarantee it's accuracy, but it looks pretty comprehensive. Could someone please confirm?
When preceding a noun:
Masculine singular/plural:
quel/quei quell'/quegli (before a vowel) quello/quegli (before s+consonant)
Feminine singular/plural
quella/quelle quell'/quelle (before a vowel)
When standing by itself:
Masculine singular/plural
quello/quelli
Feminine singular/plural
quella/quelle
Sorry for the layout. I don't know how to add formatting.
Yeah that seems right, I'd like to add what I got from a website too.
Adjective forms:
quel masculine singular before a consonant (except impure s, gn, pn, ps, x, z)
quell' masculine singular before a vowel
quello masculine singular before impure s, gn, pn, ps, x, z
quella feminine singular before a consonant
quell' feminine singular before a vowel
quei masculine plural before a consonant (except impure s, gn, pn, ps, x, z)
quegli masculine plural before a vowel, impure s, gn, pn, ps, x, z
quelle feminine plural
Pronoun forms:
quello masculine singular
quelli masculine plural
quella feminine singular
quelle feminine plural
So it all depends on whether you're using it as an adjective or a pronoun. In this question you're saying "Those/The new ones" therefore you're using it in its pronoun form. Hope that helps anyone who is not sure.
I'd say its because "they" are masculine, so the sentence uses the masculine plural pronoun "quelli". I think that some of the confusion here can result from not differentiating between demonstrative adjectives and demonstratives pronouns. The same English word (e.g. "those") can serve either function - if it stands on its own it's a pronoun, but if it comes before a noun it's an adjective. While English uses the same word for both, Italian can use different words in some cases e.g. quei and quelli. (see timedranzer above).
You're not using "quei", you're using "quelli." "Quelli" means "those." "Quel" means "that."
Then how to say: "Those new ones are perfect." (i.e. not "These") ? Also by using "Quelli" ?
Ah, a more liberal translation from "Quelli nuovi sono perfetti." to "The new ones are perfect."
... a translation that does not stubbornly inserts a "those", I like it :-)
My answer "those new ones are perfect" was accepted. DL as an alternate answer suggested "the new ones are perfect" However, I cannot understand how "THE" replces "THOSE" Can someone come up with a plausible explanation?
This is what I understood: Quel toro (Masculin Singular). Quella porta (Fem sing). Quei libri (Masc Plural). Quelle donne (Fem pl). Special forms: Quello squalo/Quell'anatra/Quegli uomini. All meaning "that __". "That" without a noun (with the meaning of "that one" or "that ones") however translates as 'Quello/quella/quelli/quelle'. Referring to the bull: "Quello e forte." The door: "Quella e chiusa". The books: " Quelli sono interessanti". The women: "Quelle sono belle". Hope this helps.
Hi, thanks for your explanation. Yes I think 'Quei' is used in front of masculine plural nouns e.g. those books/quei libri. But if you're saying something that causes a separation between 'those' and the masculine plural subject you instead use 'quelli', like in the case of: Those are books - Quelli sono libri. Or, those are mine - Quelli sono i miei. Does that sound like I've understood?
Hm, but this has a noun and it's still quelli. Or am I misunderstanding?
This sounds awkward to my American ear. But I can't argue against it grammatically.
