"She has some relation with that group."

Translation:Lei ha qualche rapporto con quel gruppo.

June 30, 2013

54 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sergey.gri

Why 'qualche', not 'alcun'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregHullender

According to Maiden and Robustelli, the singular alcun and alcuno are unheard of outside negative expressions and rare in those (meaning the same as nessun/nessuno). This sentence requires a singular.

In the plural, alcuni/e means a few, while plural qualche (invariant) roughly means "the odd" as in "These are all supposed to be screws, but check anyway; I'm always finding the odd nail."

"A Reference Grammar of Modern Italian" (Maiden and Robusttelli, 2000, p. 152)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MohmmadAowais

it means qualche refers to a doubt?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maz1269

no, there's no "doubt" in "the odd", just simply "an occasional nail"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RThomas52

If you happen across an occasional table, does that make it the occasional occasional table? Asking for a friend.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wordforrest

"In my line of business, we refurbish the occasional table." Found it for you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/5cuASNEt

The meaning of this English sentence is itself unclear. "She has some relationship with that group" would be better. As for the "rules" of Italian grammar outlined below, I suspect that most native Italian speakers a. don't know them, b. have better things to do than learn them. Meanwhile the cues and "correct" answers on Duolingo Italian are often faulty, but "reports" get no response; in contrast to Duolingo German. Why is that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PATRICKPIZ1

the cues are not meant to be answers, just possibilities in some context. the correct answers admittedly don't always refer to the mistake, and this is unfortunate. the english is constructed to give a sentence that may not be the best english but allows you to return to it from the italian sentence which is the focus of the lesson. english sentence A leads to italian sentence A and vice versa, no paraphrases. not what one 'means'. not the 'i wouldn't say that' better choice. because there is no word-for-word equivalence between the two languages this is sometimes a little harder to achieve than at other times


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/woozlification

Patrick, I agree. I think it's just that here, the result is ambiguous, and it leaves us uncertain about the meaning of what we are learning. There are ways to rephrase it to keep it close to the Italian, and still be clear and good English. For example, even switching "rapport" for "relation" would help, as a relation can also be a person in English, and that's the main reason people are confused.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JennyRusse1

I think they mean ‘relationship’. The English sentence is unnatural and ‘relation’ does not mean ‘rapporto’.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GillBuckley

What on earth does that English sentence mean? Maybe it was his mother or his sister with the group..... Only the Italian makes it clear he had some rapport or relationship with the group.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/woozlification

You are right. It is nonsense. I think that the words "rapport" or "relationship" should be used instead of "relation", which is the only choice if you are box-clicking, not typing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ziggKogg

Why not "quello gruppo"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dnovinc

Because quello (pl. quegli) goes before nouns that begin with s+consonant , z.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/italiaoo

Uh? hm. And why is it not "quel" in this sentence, but "quello": "L'ingrediente nella scatola è quello giusto." ?

Are the "quel" here and the "quello" there maybe two different words?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregHullender

Yes. Quel is an adjective and quello is a pronoun. Quel is modifying gruppo, but giusto is modifying quello.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MartimLobao

Because scatola is feminine. Quello, nello, lo, etc. only apply to male words. So if the word were scatolo, it would be nello scatolo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ziggKogg

Okay thanks again dnovinc!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarlPeshel

Why not alcune?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieMacK13

It is not clear to me what this sentence means. Is one of her relations a member of that group or does she have rapport with the group? We do use the word rapport in English (meaning to have a good relationaship/get on well with)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kazweda

Posso usare le relazioni?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RanHinrichs

This should be right as well: "Lei ha alcuna relazione con quel gruppo."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paolo425027

The answer I was given was "Lei ha alcuni rapporti con quel gruppo." But "rapporti" wasn't one of the choices among the words you could select. And I see that is not the translation given above. Is that a flaw in the Duolingo program or am I missing something?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarah-Jane645625

I had the same problem just now "you have a typo: Lei ha alcuni rapporti con quel gruppo." was not there!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/katrinkatrin123

It’s telling me I need a plural for rapporto ugh


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SchubertNo21

'some relation' is not plural. as the answer suggests that it is. To make the question fit the answer, surely, it should be 'some relations...'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/meandmyshadow0

Who ever invented italian, must have been drunk at the time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rostellan

Try the Irish course for a while and I'll wager you'll be begging to return to Italian!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RanHinrichs

Lei ha alcuna relazione con quel gruppo is correct as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NadiaRausc

The explanation for my mistake contradicted the correct translation. They should check more thoroughly this kind of thing not to confuse the student.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wazszupdoc

Page is not allowing me to move forward. Will I have to start the lesson from the beginning?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/George925484

My answer is the same as the correction


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/George925484

Sorry I did have a spelling error


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MartinJeffree

This is a DL cockup. I chose from the menu the answer above and it was marked correct, however they said I had typos, it should have been alcuni rapporti which not only seems incorrect but was also not available from the menu of words!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nic37750

I'M COMPLETELY LOST


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joeriese

Why give hints on relation and then give rapporto as the answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ittai4444

Why rapporto and not relazione?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elPvlQ

why does the cue give "relazione" and the answer is "rapporto"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elpithalem

Rapporto is not an option on the hints, how should I know that this is the correct translation,


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/M_mag_Herbstlaub

what about "parente" for relation - would that be acceptable? i tried it because of the hints. my answer was marked wrong, but i think i had another fault in it...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Laoshujr.73

Does "rapporto" also mean relationship? Because by hovering over that word or even thinking about it, I don't see why it wouldn't be "relazione". Can someone explain this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlyceGilbe

Qualche was not a choice in the exercise


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sylvie299937

I wrote exactly, letter for letter the right answer. Why did the app tell me it was an error?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carobarro

Why not "del rapporto"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaneMarjan

My question too - I tried both "della relazione" and "del rapporto" but they were rejected. I know that "di" + definite article can be used to translate "some" but it's not really clear when it is the case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zimtladen

My (NB non-native) understanding is that the partitive di+def.article is used for "some" when this signifies an unspecified quantity (=>plural) or amount (=>singular), eg dei bambini = some children, del vino = some wine.

In the case of "some relation" though, quantity/amount is not really an issue - "some" conveys that the nature of the relation is unknown, not that the quantity of it is (whatever that might mean), so maybe that makes its use less appropriate here.

There is a strong element of conjecture in this though, and I would be grateful if a native speaker could either confirm or contradict it!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clairelanc3

Isn't qualche rapporto in fact a plural? Why not simply un rapporto ( I made a mustake and wrote una relazione)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MargotBord1

Why is it quel gruppo and not questo gruppo? What's the difference between quel and questo?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paolo425027

Questo means "this", so quel is the right translation of "that"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MargotBord1

Okay, next question then, why not quello? I have somewhat of an understanding of masculine/feminine/singular/plural, but that one escapes me. Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zimtladen

This is a very common confusion, which arises because quello (and quella and quelle too) can either be an ADJECTIVE ("that boot" = quello stivale) or a PRONOUN ("that one" = quello). But it is only quello stivale because of the initial letters of stivale namely the 's' followed by a consonant (remember the rules for definite articles). If you wanted to say "that group", the word being gruppo means that you need quel, not quello.

This distinction (between adjective and pronoun) is true of questo ("this..." as well as "this one") too, but in that case the inflections are exactly the same for both adjective and pronoun, so you don't really have to worry about the distinction: masculine singular=> questo, feminine singular=>questa, masculine plural=>questi, feminine plural=>queste. Easy.

For quel(lo), however, there are one set of endings (the easy set, analogous to questo above) for the PRONOUNS, viz quello, quella, quelli, quelle, (for "this one" and "these ones") but a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SET of endings (depending on the initial letter(s) of the following word) for the ADJECTIVES.

These follow the same rules as for the definite article, namely...

quell' for singular noun phrases (both masculine and feminine) beginning with a vowel eg quell'animale, quell'ape "that animal, that bee"

quello for masculine singular ones beginning with any of 's+ consonant, 'z', 'ps', 'pn', and 'gn' eg quello zoo "that zoo"

quel for masculine singular ones beginning with any other consonant eg quel gruppo "that group"

quella for feminine singular ones beginning with a consonant eg quella persona "that person"

quegli for any masculine plural ones beginning with either a vowel or else any of 's'+consonant, 'z', 'ps', 'pn' and 'gn' eg quegli animali, quegli zoo "those animals, those zoos"

quei for any other masculine plural ones eg quei gruppi "those groups"

quelle for all feminine plural ones eg quelle persone, quelle api "those persons, those bees"

These may seem complicated but they are effectively just the usual rules for the definite article with "que-" stuck on the front. It is counterintuitive that the PRONOUN quello should inflect like an adjective (ie simply) while the ADJECTIVE quel(lo) should inflect like an article (ie complicatedly), but there it is!

One final note: unlike quello, quella, and quelle, which as I say can all function either as pronouns or adjectives, quelli can only ever be a pronoun - it is not a possible form for the adjective. It is a common mistake to write eg (WRONG!) "quelli gruppi", but that would be like saying "those ones groups". "Those groups" must be (RIGHT!) quei gruppi instead.

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