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  5. "Diese Daten sind besser."

"Diese Daten sind besser."

Translation:These dates are better.

July 2, 2013

45 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cephalium

This is confusing! Does "Daten' mean 'dates' or 'data'? If i'data'; is selected then the translation should be "These data are better'. 'Datum' in English is singular.; 'data' is plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/christian

"diese Daten" can mean "these dates" or "this data". Either translation is fine.

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/is-data-singular-or-plural.aspx


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cephalium

I understand but 'data' is plural in English. The translation using that meaning would be 'These data are better'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/christian

"data" is also a mass noun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/milkpan

I can't seem to reply to your comment below, so my point is that "These data are better" is acceptable British English and, accordingly, should be considered a correct translation alongside "This data is better."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hohenems

That's not strictly British. It's acceptable in "American" English too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/christian

Sure. Please report it if it's not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmatz

http://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/2012/07/data-is-or-data-are.html

So, not only is the plural accepted in the US, it is actually the correct usage.

While using it as a mass noun is becoming more accepted, but is still considered incorrect by style guides.

ETA: I stand corrected. It depends on the discipline/field it is for in the US and which style guide it uses.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/christian

The Guardian style guide makes a good point.

"data takes a singular verb (like agenda), though strictly a plural; no one ever uses "agendum" or "datum""

http://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-d


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wataya

From my personal experience with submitting academic papers to American science journals (theoretical physics): editors in this field tend to insist on the plural form.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN

Keep in mind that the APA is the American Psychological Association, yet another scientific organization which is making guidelines regarding scientific papers. In that use, data is most certainly used as plural, but that is not the only way to use data in the US which also accepts it as a mass noun in non-scientific usage.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmatz

I agree, actually, with the Guardian's point. My instinct is to use it as a mass noun, but I come from a region with a strong dialect.

However, The Guardian Style Guide seems to be a British newspaper (though I now see it has other editions) and the APA is a style guide used by the publishing industry in the US. It is probably growing in acceptability in both countries (as well as other English speaking locations), but maybe more quickly in some than others.

In speech, both are accepted. If you are writing an academic paper, you probably still need to use the plural verb in the US or you will have problems if the prof is strict. It is possible to lose whole letter grades from subject verb disagreements.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmatz

Good point about APA, allintolearning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/milkpan

That's true for American English, but "data" can be correctly used as a plural noun in British English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/christian

I'm not sure what your point is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlastairMo1

Isn't this section about dates? It's not about data. It seems there was a slight error in what should have been asked here.

I am off the opinion that it should have read: These dates are better.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doctortrax

Yes! This! After all, it's in the section about months and seasons and stuff.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndreasWitnstein

Duolingo reuses sentences in other lessons to refresh your vocabulary and grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susan799085

Or they deliberately want to show us alternative uses for the same vocabulary word, even if it is not in the context of the main point of the lesson. I have seen this in Spanish lessons too (the word "fuera" comes to mind). I find it useful to know that the same word can have other meanings to be aware of. Keeps us on our toes!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ToddTheOdd

This incredibly awkward speaking as a native English speaker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alibob99

I agree, I see the discussion above about "correct" usage and apparently it's acceptable in the US but looking at it makes my skin crawl.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KasandraLa6

I live in the US and i have never heard anyone say: "these data" only "this data".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mageriane

"Dates" would be better in the context of this lesson. If it also means "data", then the ambiguous context of the sentence is really misleading.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nghicks

How do I upvote this more than once?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dyvgonzalez

Have a question here... why "These" is correct whereas "Those" is wrong? According to leo.org both should be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN

When used as an adjective, "diese", which describes "Daten", means "this". Without the word "data" or "Daten", "diese" would be a pronoun and then could mean "these", "those" or "that" http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_en.html#/search=diesesearchLoc=1resultOrder=basicmultiwordShowSingle=on

As for data, science and technology use many Latin words and keep them intact as datum for singular and data for plural; however, other uses for the word data correspond with the mass noun information and it is used as a mass noun in English as well, which would then take a singular verb. Consider your audience. If you are publishing a paper for science or technology, then you must use data as plural, as indeed these items of information can be backed as facts. Not all data is collected in the same painstaking way that scientists use and, in that case, I consider it to be general information and use it as a mass noun.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/data?show=0=1393358399 http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/data?q=data http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/data?q=data


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stir939905

Should read: This data. Not, "these data."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DuncanThom2

Bad English!! "These dates are better" Or "These are better dates"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ItsTheCowboyCar

I was doing the exercise where you choose the right words to make the translation, and 'this' was not an option. Instead, the only option was 'these'. How would 'These data is better' be grammatically correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndreasWitnstein

You can only say either

“This data is better.”, treating “data” as a mass noun, or
“These data are better.”, treating “data” as a plural countable noun,


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/littleblueduck

I got this immediately after "Diese Daten sind falsch" and felt relieved :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheDeutschess

Can Date mean a romantic meeting like in English, or is it data and calendar dates only?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndreasWitnstein

The German word »Daten« is the plural form of the German word »Datum«, not »Date«, and it only refers to “data” or “calendar dates”.

However, in German slang you'll also hear the Anglicism »das Date«, meaning “date”, “rendezvous”, “romantic appointment”.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arock007

This translation does not make sense. We would never say 'these data are better' in English. I think you mean DATES. Translation should then be"These dates are better. "


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ryanseiffe

I put" these dates are better" and it was considered correct..why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tomerisrael

So "Das Datum" turns into "Die Daten" in plural?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steffy422294

Daten means dates.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KrisB06

Shouldn't "These are better data" been accepted??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmbassadorTigger

That would be "Das sind bessere Daten"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tapan93

Do they meant Dates instead Data??........seems more logical


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve0188

"These data" just sounds wrong??? Wouldn't data need plural noun after like "These data sheets" or change the these to this "This data"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmbassadorTigger

While we have largely moved away from this, there are still speakers who use the original usage of "data" as the plural of "datum". One could argue, though, that this should be a secondary translation, with the main translation employing the singular.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lily_Owen

It seems for Americans when a word can also mean the plural of itself (data) we change the word that would be (these, those, etc) to just fit the singular "sounding" word in our head. I guess we are so accustomed to it spoken over written?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeremy168792

"This data is better" is how I would say it

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