Because there is an adjective modifying the noun. I expect it will be explained in the skill on adjectives later on.
It would have been helpful to explain beforehand or wait until the adjectives bit come around... oh well
I agree. I think this is the first lesson that does not have any prior explanations.
I think it's only in the website. The app doesn't have the explanations. It's really worthy to check them out!
In this case it is ok to say "de", but you can never go wrong with "dom".
As a pronoun, "De" is always pronounced "Dom", but when it is used as an article some people prefer to say "De", just as it is spelled.
Does it mean "They the blacks the shoes are mine"? I mean in a very literal way. I just like to understand how a language "thinks".. Obviously the meaning here is that "The black shoes are mine". I just want to know what's in the "background"....
No, literally de is the plural form of den and det, it is not the personal pronoun 'they'.
saying "dom där" out loud sounds dissonant to my ears. Is this because you'd pronounce "de" as "de", here, or am I just imagining it? :)
dom där is the standard pronunciation, it sounds perfectly normal. Some dialects have things like domma or dom dära or di där. Or even domma dära or dom däringa/di däringa/domma däringa :D
You might hear people say de där when they read aloud, but since that sounds exactly the same as the normal pronunciation for det där, it isn't a very good idea.
Ah, I'm sorry to hear that! I'm not surprised though, that was such a serious error. I still hear her faulty pronunciation of bakom in my head sometimes :D
Can't reply directly to Arnauti since the thread has too many layers of replies, but thank you for the response :) I just have to train my ears more, until proper pronunciation sounds like proper pronunciation.
I've been active again these past few weeks, but most of my time with this course was from last year, before the "new" TTS speaker [who's probably old by now], the original one who never knew how to pronounce "de" as "dom". I'm still slowly unlearning all that.
Well I mean they are hers and have probably been pretty expensive so she does not want other people to touch it.
We need an article when there's an adjective before the noun. (except sometimes in titles, headlines, some names etc)
There are no "Tips and Notes" in the chapter "Colors" yet. It would be nice if the need for a (dummy) article before an adjective was explained in the tips. Everybody is wondering about the "de" that comes falling out of the blue sky.
it would also have another meaning i.e. (all) black shoes are mine ,supposedly that there are many shoes
Would it really mean that though? Isn't the "definiteness" of shoes still be contained in "skorna"? If you actually want to say "[All] black shoes are mine" how would you say it? Would one use "skor" instead of "skorna" then?
You're right. If you want to say All black shoes are mine, you would have to say Alla svarta skor är mina.
'Svarta skorna är mina' doesn't really mean anything different, it's just an error.
Is "de svarta skor" correct? Because I don't see why it's skorna, because it's already definite because of "De"
You need a double definite. ”De svarta skor” sounds like Danish. Swedish says ”De svarta skorna”.
en svart sko - a black shoe svarta skor - black shoes
Svarta is the plural form of svart.
I guess what I don't get after reading the comments is still why we have "de" here, if "skorna" already implies the "the." If you are adding "de" to mean the, wouldn't you just be able to use "skor?" It almost seems like this sentence says "The the black shoes are mine."
Yes, it sort of does say the the black shoes, or even the the black the shoes. This feature of Swedish is called double definiteness. If you want to, you can even call it triple, since the adjective also shows that the noun is definite. Natural languages often have this kind of redundancy, it's practical in that it makes it easier to understand a sentence even if you don't hear all of it clearly, for instance. Or you can think of it as a kind of harmony, when all the words in an expression also show the same grammatical feature.
The illustration of a shared grammatical characteristic in a group of words as having a common harmony is just brilliant. And it made my inner music nerd tingle. Thank you sincerely :)
Just for clarity, this sentence is talking about multiple sets of shoes correct? sko = shoe, skor = shoes, skorna = 2 pairs of shoes.
If you put a strong stress on de, the sentence can mean those shoes …. But if it were these shoes, we would have said de här skorna or dessa skor.
these are closer in time and or space and those are farther away. Between Swedish and English it's easy, this is det här/detta and that is det där. We also in many cases allow det to be translated as that. I'm not so good at Polish but maybe you can compare to ten vs. tamten.
Wow. That looks very accurate. And you are right about Polish "ten" and "tamten". Thank you! ^_^
Skorna is plural, it matches with mina, that is plural too. If you want to say in singular "The black shoe is mine", you can say "De svarta skor är min", since skor and min are in singular form. Lol I'm terrible to explain! I Hope you can understand!
'these black shoes' would be de här svarta skorna or dessa svarta skor.
We use a double or triple definiteness for definite noun phrases with an adjective, see for instance my answer to 4070milesapart on this page.
Is it ok to just pronounce it as it looks? In Finland they pronounce it s it looks but if I am speaking to those with standard Swedish will they understand or will they just think I am making a mistake?
It's perfectly fine, just far less common. You'll be understood with zero problems. But it can sound a little quaint, depending on dialect, since it's rare.
She does say skorna, but the rn cluster uses a retroflex sound that English doesn't have, so I know it can be very hard for non-natives to discern. I could make a recording for you to show the differences, if you'd like? (Though I currently have a cold, so it'll have to wait until my voice is normal again.)