The infinitive form means it has to be "to pose" (you wouldn't say "to posing" in English). Or (I think) this construction can also be used as a command, as in "Pose for the picture". (Again, in English, one wouldn't tell someone to "posing for a picture"). One would need to use "Je pose pour la photo" to translate to "(I am) posing for the picture". Hope that helps.
This sentence is not meant to be in command form. This is a fragmented sentence. I totally disagree with you. Posing for the photo should be perfectly correct.
What makes you so sure it is not meant to be in command form when the infinitive can be used in that way?
What I mean is when one writes ( as the Duolingo's second correct answer in this sentence as well as your initial remark) " To pose for the photo ", this particular form of speech is not in command form. Therefore, how can you distinguish between 'to pose' and 'posing' from poser in French?
Thank you very much for your last explanation and encouragement. There were no other reply boxes to your other messages and I am using this to send my gratitude to your information. B.T.W. being so crazy about cats myself, j'aime tres bien votre photo !!
Thank you very much for sending me this very useful website and your point is well taken. However, I'd like to point out a couple of points also, if I may. According to Laura K. Lawless, the site you sent me, the infinitive form of a verb is used for "impersonal commands to an unknown audience as in warnings, instruction manuals and recipes." Pose for the photo certainly doesn't seem to fit in any of these situations. The second point is that as I described before, Duolingo itself accepts "To pose for the photo" as the second correct answer in this sentence which certainly has nothing to do imperatives. Thus, please explain to me why "Posing for the photo" is an incorrect answer as Aria asks originally. Thank you for your input. I'm just trying to learn and I apologize if I sounded rude before.
The source 'sentence' in French is "poser pour la photo", which is a fragment and as such can be subject to interpretation.
The French infinitives are used:
to give "soft" commands, such as those you find in public places (ne pas nourrir les animaux), instructions for use (ouvrir la boîte et verser le contenu), recipes (mélanger la farine et le sucre). This gives a less authoritative tone to a command.
in dictionaries: if you look up "pose" in a En-Fr dictionary, this is what you get:
intransitive verb conjugaison
art photography poser
to pose for a photograph/for an artist
This indication of the infinitive form is necessary to be able to conjugate the verb. And of course, if you look up "poser" in a Fr-En dictionary, you will get the same information, just the other way around:
verbe transitif conjugaison
[mettre] conjugaison to put, to lay, to place
- as part of a list in appropriate context like: "Nous avons dû faire plusieurs choses : poser pour la photo, saluer tout le monde...".
Actually, you could get the same list in English, either with bare infinitives or with gerunds, depending on how the first part is constructed: "We usually do several things: pose for the photo, greet everybody..." or "We were busy with posing for the photo, greeting everybody...".
Just the same way, the list in French could use other forms of the verbs, with another construction:"Nous avons fait plusieurs choses: posé pour la photo, salué tout le monde..." (past participles, matching "fait").
- "poser pour la photo" can translate to: "to pose for the photo" or "posing for the photo".
- in dictation, you can legitimately hear "posez", in which case the prime translation will be "pose for the photo" (imperative).
- in reverse, if "to pose..." is proposed, only "poser..." should be accepted.
Yes, "prendre une photo" is to operate the camera and your definition is also correct for "poser pour une photo".
Of course, in the case of selfies or photo booth, you will both pose then operate the camera.
Bastou's translation was excellent because he nicely played on a double meaning of verb "prendre".
- prendre quelque chose = to grab something
- prendre la pose = to pose for a photo
If your sign was located in an amusement park, targeting kids, the translation would probably be in 2nd person singular: "Prends un accessoire - Prends la pose".
Now as I already mentioned, this sign is an ad. As such, among other things, it has to be inviting so as urge the target to move asap.
Just the same way as you get "call now" or "buy one & get one free" or "just do it" as commercial 'commands' including a verb, French advertising does not use infinitives to trigger impulse purchase but straightforward imperatives.
And again, 'soft commands' are used in recipes and instructions for use, user manuals, etc. ie when no one in particular is targeted.
Have you ever gone to an amusement park or fun arcade or museum (or even seen a movie) where signs like the one below were posted near a photo booth?
Such a sign is impersonal. It is simply inviting people (no one in particular) to put on some disguise and then pose for a photo. It seems to me that a command like "poser pour une photo" could be used in a situation like that and it would be perfectly appropriate.
With regard to your other question, like you, I do think "Posing for the photo..." could indeed work as a translation of a dependent (noun) clause, since this is can be considered a fragment of a sentence.
Hopefully one of the French natives or the more advanced students will let us know if a sentence like
Posing for the photo was not worst thing he could have done
...could perhaps can be translated as:
Poser pour la photo n'était pas la pire chose qu'il pourrait avoir faite.
And you didn't sound rude to me. I can relate to the frustration of not knowing why something is deemed wrong when it makes perfect sense to you...and then not having anyone explain in a way that is satisfactory to you.
MèreDesChats, when it comes to the sentence proposed "poser" should theoretically be translated to an infinitive or a gerund, to allow for a correct back-translation.
In absolute, you may translate a soft command in infinitive to an English imperative.
As to the sign you inserted, this is advertising, an invite to buy something, so an imperative would do well - I agree with Bastou on his translations (Prenez un accessoire - Prenez la pose).
Thank you for both trying to explain. While I am comfortable with using the "vous" forms as suggested by BastouXII I would feel so much better if someone had been able to put a finger on why my translation--which Duolingo accepted BTW-- would not work. What is throwing me off, is that if the infinitive gives soft commands that are not bossy orders, then inviting people to voluntarily pose for a photo seems like a great example of a soft command.
Anyway, I will file this under "things I just have to accept just because" since you both know your stuff. If I do ever put a finger on why infinitive would never work in this case (BTW DL needs to be informed of this fact too), then I will be back to let you know.
Just one more question, doesn't prenez une photo mean "take a photo" which is different from "pose for a photo"? The former appears to be ordering someone to operate a camera while the latter is telling someone to get into position for a photo of that person to be taken by someone else who is operating the camera.
Is there no way in French to more accurately translate the sign I posted, which is an impersonal, soft command to pose for a photo?
I will have to just throw in the towel on this one, because if 'infinitives are used in manuals" as you say, then surely if I were reading a manual about how to work a camera that has a timer, it would not be so odd that one of the directions might be about setting the timer and the next one might give the instruction to then pose for the photo giving the camera time to take it. Why that would not be an impersonal directive, I honestly cannot understand.
Since I don't plan on putting up any French signs any time soon, I will just let this one go. Sorry I took so much of your time but I really had come into this discussion sure I understood infinitives as imperatives and had hoped to confirm some ideas but I ended up with more questions than answers...and a headache. (Yes, I take learning way too seriously.)
I'm replying to both you and mere_des_chats as we've reached the limit in comment depth.
Although it is very true we can use the infinitive to give commands on signs, this one feels weird to me (French native), since for a photo to be taken, something needs to happen (someone has to activate the camera), and only a small group of people can be on a picture at a time, so you can't direct this command to a large indefinite group of people like you would with Laver ses mains avant de manipuler la nourriture, just to name an example. But maybe that's just me, as I don't have a clear grammatical explanation for why I find it weird, just my native's gut feeling.
As for the present participle thing ("posing" instead of the infinitive "to pose"), I see two different scenarios, since this isn't a full sentence in either French or English (no conjugated verb). Either "posing" would be used like a noun (and called a gerund) and that could work as a valid translation for the French infinitive, just as mere_des_chats proposed; or it could be used as (part of) a verb and then it could a valid translation of the French infinitive, but only if we had the complete sentence. "While posing for the photo, i made a funny face" would be En posant pour la photo, j'ai fait une grimace. And "I'm posing for the photo" would translate to Je pose pour la photo or Je suis en train de poser pour la photo. But that last one would absolutely not work in this case because we don't have the subject, and we can't cut the sentence to en train de poser...
So BastouXII, if I understand correctly, does this mean the commands/orders tend to be authoritative and cannot be a simple request? The signs that say "Strike a Pose" like the one I posted seem to be giving orders too even though it's not a forceful one, which is why I thought "poser pour une photo" would be the equivalent. If not, what would be the equivalent?
Or here's another scenario: Suppose we were shooting a scene for the show like Candid Camera and set up a scenic background with a chair that is obviously supposed to be sat on, only it was not clear for whom the scene was set up. Now if the "catch" was to see if any of the strangers walking by would be tempted to respond to a sign asking them to pose for a photo on said chair, wouldn't a sign with words like Poser pour une photo ici work? Or how would you write such a sign that is really a test to see who will respond?
Sitesurf, you say that the infinitive can be used for soft commands, which was exactly my reason for thinking that "pose for the photo" might work as you may see at a fair. But in your "bottom-line", you omitted this translation. Which begs the question: how would you translate the impersonal sign I posted above using the verb poser?
mere_des_chats, for your specific example, I would use the second person plural imperative :
Prenez un accessoire
Prenez la pose
As I think the infinitive has something weird about it in this situation, as I said in my previous comment, even if I can't quite put my finger on what it is exactly that feels weird. Maybe Sitesurf may enlighten us (and either confirm or refute my gut feeling) with a proper usage rule (as this has more to do with usage than grammar).
And as Sitesurf said, using the infinitive instead of other tenses that imply commands does feel softer, more like a suggestion than an command, an order or a threat.
But you can say "I liked posing for the photo" which would be «J'ai aimé poser pour la photo.» Since this is a sentence fragment, and that fragment can legitimately match to the English fragment "posing for the photo," it should be accepted, no?
"posez pour la photo" would be a command so is this an idioM?? Another new thing we never studied but find there to guess at? With hints that mislead? I am a bit irritated with the coyness of it all. I like things rather clear and direct and nobody pulling the rug out. Ah me.
In the lesson titled "imperative", in every sentence you will have to conjugate the verb in imperative.
This lesson is about "infinitive" and the French verb is in infinitive, that you can translate to an infinitive: "to pose", or a gerund "posing".
Posing for the photo was accepted. When the French use the infinitive it does not always translate into the English infinitive.
"Picture, picture, smile for the picture, pose with your brother, won't you be a good sister..."
Me too! It's what I think every time I translate this ~ P.S. Gave you a Lingot cos I have too many <3
The French will use a word with an 'i' sound in it so people form the same smily face. They usually say "cheese" like in English, but I've also come by a photographer who asked us to say "sex", as people will usually giggle and that's even better.
Maybe it's only in Québec. What do you say in France? Certainly not fromage, right?
Right, ouistiti is said here as well, but less than "cheese". And "sex" is something I heard once, I didn't say it was widespread.
How can I difference between "Poser" and "Posez" sound-wise? They both fit in this sentance. (Generally speaking, it's clear that here in a lesson about infinitve verbs it should be "poser")
i wrote "ask for the photo" in response to "poser pour la photo" why is this wrong please?
I may be wrong but I think poser is used to mean "to ask" when followed by la question. Kind of like in English: pose a question = ask a question
Is "to pose for a photo" valid (or should it be valid)? It feels OK to me, but I'm no native speaker and my native language has no articles, so I'm not sure if the article (a/the) makes any significant difference in this sentence.
I'd say no. The difference between definite articles (the in English, le, la, les, l' in French) and the indefinite ones (a, an in English, un, une, des in French) is how specific we want the sentence to be : we use the definite article to indicate one particular object (either named or made clear by context) and the indefinite one to indicate that which object exactly we're talking about doesn't have much importance for what we're trying to say.
That being said, there can be differences in the way we use definite and indefinite articles (or no article at all) between different languages. So a definite article may be translated by an indefinite article in some specific case (and vice versa).
To be clear, I understand this in general, but telling where the boundary between "the" and "a" is still hard for me is some particular cases like this one. My feel is that unless the photo is especially important, it's just a photo. But what makes the photo special enough for "the"? Can you explain the difference to me?
The thing is, you are supposed to translate the given sentence which precisely uses the definite article. If you need a context, the sentence could be a follow-up to a discussion about a photo that was supposed to be taken; a specific one--like for a book cover or some event poster. So it is that photo and not any photo being discussed.
The important thing is to pay attention to detail. If someone told you "to pose for the photo" wouldn't you ask "And what photo would that be?" Point being the person speaking used "the" so clearly they have a particular photo in mind. To assume they meant "any photo" would be a bit presumptuous, don't you think?
I see what you mean, I think it's part of that second paragraph I wrote, where I mentioned there may be differences between laguages (which language considers what to be definite and what to be indefinite).
English isn't my native language either (French is), but I believe the reason in this case is that if we pose for a picture, then obviously it's for the precise picture that is about to be taken, not just any picture. I could see some situations (or contexts) where a would be acceptable, but for most situations, we know exactly what picture we're posing for.
The word poser does not just mean "to put down" or "to set down" but it also means to "pose". When you pose for a photo, you position your body in particular way so that someone taking a photo can capture a good image of you. In the following video, the little girl is upset, but the minute she realizes there is a camera around, she poses as a model might for a photo: Video That is also referred to as "striking a pose".
So words change meanings depending on the context in which they are used. A dictionary is a good place to learn how to interpret words depending on how they are used. Here's the entry for poser: http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/french-english/poser Check out the sentence examples given to further understand each sense.
Thanks a lot, somehow I cannot think of that version :( Sometimes it's not easy to figure out which langueage to think when there is no duolingo in your mothertongue.
If you were to write down a "to-do list", you would use the infinitive:
- poser pour la photo
- rencontrer l'ambassadeur
- écrire le compte-rendu
The verb 'poser' can be transitive (requires a direct object) or intransitive (does not require a direct object).
In its transitive form, it means "to put(down/up/away), to place", whereas, in its intransitive form it means "to pose".
This article on giving orders in French should answer your question: http://french.about.com/od/grammar/a/givingorders.htm
Wouldn't you use the 'vous' form of the infinitive if you're saying a command/imperative? E.g Allez maintenant = Go now.
Please take a moment to read the thread before rushing to post. If you had done so, you would not have needed to ask as this has been addressed.
When doing translations, you should always try to give the most accurate translation possible. A photograph is a very specific kind of picture. A picture could be a painting or a drawing. So it's best to call a spade a space, instead of calling it a garden tool used to dig and scoop?
"Poser une question" translates to/from "to ask a question", but "poser" does not mean "to ask".
"Poser quelque chose" means "to put" or "to set" something, but used without an object, "poser" means and translates to/from "to pose" for a photographer or painter.