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  5. "Tv:n är helt ny."

"Tv:n är helt ny."

Translation:The tv is brand new.

November 22, 2014

85 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/heimaey

I am digging this colon in the word. Nicely played Swedish!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaiirapetjan

The colon here is similar to how we sometimes use the apostrophe to make plurals of acronyms in English, only here we're making the definite form. TV's, CD's DVD's; tv:n, cd:n, dvd:n.

(Some comments below point out that even though the apostrophe is commonly used to pluralize acronyms, it is more acceptable to simply add an 's' unless this creates any sort of ambiguity.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mskiwoeli

You don't use an apostrophe to make plurals of acronyms in English. You write CDs, TVs, DVDs.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaiirapetjan

According to most style guides, pluralizing initialisms and acronyms with an apostrophe is acceptable. Individual lower case letters (such as "p's and q's") are usually formed by adding the apostrophe, while capital letters use just the s.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/The_Aardvark

Agreed. Here is some advice from the Grammar Monster (http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/apostrophes_show_plural_of_abbreviations.htm)

AVOID USING AN APOSTROPHE

Some grammar pedants claim that apostrophes cannot be used in any plurals. This is an outdated, dogmatic view. If you have an awkward abbreviation, number, or letter and using an apostrophe to show its plural assists your readers, then go for it.

APOSTROPHES IN PLURALS FOR UPPERCASE ABBREVIATIONS

When writing titles, you are sometimes compelled to use just capital letters. This makes it difficult to show a plural of an otherwise normal-looking abbreviation. Remember, if it assists your reader, you can use an apostrophe to show a plural. For example: CD'S ARE OBSOLETE

TWO LRS'S PER PROCESSOR


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaiirapetjan

Thanks Mr. Aardvark. I loved this:

  • Some grammar pedants claim that apostrophes cannot be used in any plurals. This is an outdated, dogmatic view.

And I consider myself a grammar pedant. LOL.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

I don't agree with Grammar Monster on this. The apostrophe is not logical in creating plurals. It definitely indicates possession, and using it for plurals increases confusion rather than making things more clear. There is no need for an apostrophe. Also, why is the "s" capitalized? I'm not impressed with Grammar Monster based on this quote. I do agree that the "apostrophe s" is accepted, but a good editor would fix that before publication.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RowenaJane

that grates!!! never! ie putting apostrophes with plurals.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaiirapetjan

To those of you who didn't get AxeKitty's joke, see this: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/6191706$comment_id=10994126


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trilby16

Not so much! In English, adding an apostrophe makes it a possessive: The TV's screen is dirty. The CD's case is cracked. Or a contraction: The DVD's missing. (The DVD is missing).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

Exactly! This is why I don't like people inserting an apostrophe to make it plural. It makes no sense, and it instantly becomes ambiguous.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SN92
  • 652

Except that that's incorrect in English. But Finnish does use a colon in the same way for case endings with abbreviations.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaiirapetjan

It is not incorrect in English. It once was, but it has become so ubiquitous as to be accepted by most style guides. Find me one that says otherwise, and I'll find you three that support this statement. Here's one: http://www.public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/acronyms.html


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SN92
  • 652

Yeah! Here's a sentence from Finnish Wikipedia: "Väestötiheys EU:ssa on 115,6 asukasta/km²" ("The population density in the EU is 115.6 inhabitants per km²"). The inessive case ending "-ssa" is separated from "EU" by a colon. Whereas "kala" ("fish") is written "kalassa" in the inessive case :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MissMuse

You just answered the question I had below. Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Finlandia1865

TV:N is not a plural. It means the tv.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DuoTaffer

Could someone quickly explain :?

What is it, just another letter?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelenCarlsson

What do you mean :)? Why there is an n? TV:n is the definite form:
a TV = en TV (teve)
the TV = TV:n (teven)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DuoTaffer

Ah that makes sense, but what does the colon signify if what I'm really trying to get at here. Just an extended gap, like a comma or semicolon? Why not spell teven?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/random_man

Tack du så mycket.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaiirapetjan

It probably helps in the pronunciation, imo. "Teven" would be pronounced as two syllables (/te -ven/), whereas TV:n makes the speaker almost separate the /e/ of the ve from the /e/ of the :n. That is, /te - ve - en/. What do you say, Helen? You're the Queen of Forvo... =D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelenCarlsson

Ha ha, I guess the TV:n writing is a bit misleading for a non-Swede. It is pronounced exactly like teven :). If you prefer to write it out, it works fine for this acronym but not for all. You mustn't write veden instead of VD:n (the CEO) for example. It's the definite of "ved", which means firewood, and here the pronunciation of VD:n, the CEO, and veden, the firewood, differs.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelenCarlsson

No, the gap is only in the mind of you all who are shocked by the colon :).

In "VD" (Ve De), both e:s (!) are long and this is kept of course when you make it definite.

But the definite ending -en of "veden" has a short (and unstressed) e.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaiirapetjan

How does it differ? Does it add a sort of 'gap,' as DuoTaffer suggested?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

@Dim-ond-dysgwr: No, both syllables use long stress - tévén.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dim-ond-dysgwr

[TV:n] is pronounced exactly like teven <

Well, not exactly; it would be more accurate to say "like tevén".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/henrydwatson

But is it actually spelt with a colon in everyday writing?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelenCarlsson

It Is! I googled "tv:n" and "teven" and the former is much more common.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/henrydwatson

Wow... Are there any other cases where Swedes use colons in the middle of words?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelenCarlsson

Well, in all definite forms of an acronym I guess :). For example VD:n (the CEO) and dvd:n.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jitt91

Looks at the bottom of this section on Wikipedia for more examples of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_language#Writing_system


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kathryn.ne

Think of it as an apostrophe in English - we will goes to we'll in much the same way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zuvedra_mandra

Never ever so a colon in the middle of the word in any language... you have a brave linguists there in Sverrige!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dim-ond-dysgwr

Well, Finnish also uses the colon to attach grammatical endings to abbreviations; e.g. EU-ssa = in the EU.

Incidentally, in Swedish it is in occasional use too in such contractions as S:t Johannes kyrka = St John's church.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/konnilee

Funny how tv:n is pronounced as "teven" which in Spanish would mean "They see you." Conspiracy theories yay!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zhzhouzhou

Den stor bror tittar på dig!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

storebror, no article. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Synthpopalooza

That colon is cool. Does it also work for the definite plural form? e.g. Tv:arn? Also, I have seen a related word, tvspel (video game) which I think may be pronounced tevespel


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelenCarlsson

If so, then it's tv:arna. It does not look good though and I would probably say (and write) tv-apparaterna.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Synthpopalooza

I would also assume the possessive form is tv:s?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OtherLutris

Duo writes this as "TV :n" (space before colon) but I suspect it should be "TV:n" (no space)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

That is correct. Duolingo's apps all seem to have a quirk where non-letters will be considered word dividers. So you'll also find that words like "it's" get divided into "it 's", for instance.


[deactivated user]

    I would never say "TV" in English. I know millions do, but in some circles (clearly my own) it is considered a poor substitute for "telly". I'm now amusingly forced to say it in Swedish!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kiteo

    I’d say either. Australian here.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MonsieurCal

    So this 'helt' means the subject is completly new, as in brand new. If I had a plural subject and I wanted to use it as an adverbe, so "the apples are all green" (100% green in colour) as opposed to "the apples are all green" (100% of the apples are green) Can I make this distinction in Swedish?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelenCarlsson

    We differ between all/completely (= helt) and all/every (= alla) so that would simply be
    Äpplena är helt gröna.
    Alla äpplen (or äpplena) är gröna.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kiteo

    I suppose helt could be thought of as wholly?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

    Sure, that works.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beanybadger

    Are apostrophes ever used in Swedish for any reason? Apparently not in this case, nor for possessives, but are there any instances where one would be used? Or is it not even on a Swedish keyboard?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

    Only rarely. As in English, we can use it to show a contraction, e.g. sta'n for staden which later turned into just stan. It's also used when there's risk of confusion, for instance to show possession after a name ending in s, such as Tomas/Tomas'. Again, though, these are both very rarely used.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ludovica1964

    can we have "Brand new" instead of "completely new" ?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TopRival75

    Yes, it accepts that.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulianKuipers

    So you add ':n' instead of 'en' when there is no a/e/u/i/o/y in the word?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelenCarlsson

    Well, the reason for adding only n here is that TV is pronounced teve, so it works like en gubbe - gubben for example.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulianKuipers

    Oh, I get it now. Thanks!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tinyset

    so TVs = Tv:r in Swedish?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelenCarlsson

    TV:ar, but it sounds strange :). I would probably say tv-apparater.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ela27.

    The wird tv:n is sooo weird


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Autrelle

    Does "tv" in Swedish mean the object for watching television programmes? Why was "the television set" wrong then?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

    I think it wasn't in the list of initially accepted translations, so it needs to be added manually for every sentence containing "tv". In this case, we accepted "tv set" but not "television set". I've fixed that now.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Autrelle

    Oh, thanks a lot. I was just confused thinking I got something wrong.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kim197311

    I second the motion for the English translation being "brand" rather than "completely" or "wholly" new.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

    I've made "brand new" the default translation now. :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/laura946703

    under "helt " as a given translation are as follows - absolutely, completely, entirely ". none of which can be accepted as a correct answer. Hmm...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

    Those are all accepted, but your error report only says "tv" where it needs to be "the tv".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Himmel.

    I was taught hel/helt means completely/entirely, But brand?!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

    I mean, it is "brand" as in "completely", not as in "trademark".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

    It's a set phrase, "brand new."

    "Brand" by itself never means "completely."

    "Brand new" means something like "very fresh," "just made." You can say, "I have new shoes (maybe bought them a week ago)," or "I have brand new shoes (probably wearing them for the first time today)."

    Apparently, the phrase "brand new" harks back to times when a brand was put on a piece of merchandise (a horse shoe, etc.) as the last thing before placing it up for sale. The idea is that the thing has not been used much or at all yet.

    The Swedish phrase seems to mean more like "100% new," and the English phrase means more like "freshly made," which is a slightly different way of saying it, but the meaning is the same: The t.v. very recently came out of the box.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Priscilla39118

    Why is it 'ny' instead of 'nya', since the definite form of TV is used?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

    Put simply, it's because the adjective comes after the noun. I've written a little more about it e.g. here: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/26420394/Answers-to-some-common-questions-on-grammar-that-beginners-have


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Priscilla39118

    Tack så mycket. I really appreciate having MODs and others around to field questions.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rob396024

    why is "The TV is entirely new" not acceptable?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Patrick889093

    The TV is brand new even when there is no den or en or any other indication thst thr is in this sentence . As always that is just how the Swedish language is.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

    "The" is in the Swedish sentence. It is "en" and it's attached to the word "tv."

    Because "tv" is an abbreviation, it is handled differently. Instead of adding "en," for an abbreviation, you add colon-n.

    t.v. = tv

    the t.v. = tv:n

    I hope this helps.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lukas315

    so would an ett abbreviation use :t for its definitive?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

    Yes, indeed.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Finlandia1865

    How would you say "The TVs"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

    tv:arna, or tv-apparaterna.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Finlandia1865

    Nice profile picture! Do you like Pingu?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

    Of course, who doesn't? :p

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