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  5. "Tidningen är kvinnans."

"Tidningen är kvinnans."

Translation:The newspaper is the woman's.

November 23, 2014

39 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vitally.T

Since the course is so far in the beta, maybe it is worth to change the translation to English to be more precise? I've bumped several times to the situation, when entering I had to enter "The newspaper is the woman's" instead of more natural "This is the woman's newspaper". Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NadiaAnag

I agree, it is really counter intuitive having to enter a really awkward sentence in English. It should be valid to enter "The newspaper belongs to the woman" or similar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

That would be Det är kvinnans tidning. Since both constructions are perfectly normal in Swedish, it's important that we teach them both. But if we accepted these translations as synonymous, learners would only learn the one that's idiomatic in English. So it makes pedagogical sense not to accept semantic equivalents which have perfectly good other translations.

That said, this specific sentence is marked for exclusion from the next tree.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Triskal1

Well, I do not agree with the translation theory about equivalents that you imply. But that is beside the point. The point here is that "the newspaper is the woman's" is not an adequate translation, as it is not idiomatic English, no matter what anyone may think about the difference between "det är kvinnans tidning" and "tidningen är kvinnans". In either case, "the newspaper is the woman's" is not a good English translation, as it sounds translated and/or awkward.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

I do see your point. But try to look at it from our point-of-view as well: you are here to learn Swedish, and using some non-idiomatic English will teach you certain Swedish constructions better. Why insist on always using idiomatic English if it makes you learn less Swedish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Triskal1

Did you mean "using some NON-idiomatic English" (if not, I may not have understood your point)? I think, I know what you mean. But even so, providing non-idiomatic English for Swedish expressions has its own problems. For example, if you say that the correct English translation for "tidningen är kvinnans" is something you never hear anyone say in English (except, possibly, in English several centuries old), English-speaking people will hardly find a context in English where "tidningen är kvinnans" would be the appropriate translation, as the English context for the Swedish sentence, defined by what is given as correct in this course, does not occur. This is why I think that is is better to use English expressions that are less literally translated into English from Swedish when we are dealing with Swedish expressions that, literally translated into English, result in non-idiomatic or even ungrammatical English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Yes, sorry. I've edited my post to add the "non-" now. Thanks for pointing that out.

I certainly won't argue that this is the one true perfect way of teaching, nor that there are no problems associated with it. Things like these are evaluated constantly, and it does happen that we change our minds. If there hadn't been a one-to-one translation of "it's the woman's newspaper", for instance, we definitely would have accepted it.

Quite frankly, a large part of this problem stems from how Duolingo's system is built, and from the limitations this imposes on course creation. For instance, a feature that let us better distinguish between acceptable and preferrable translations would have solved this specific issue. Unfortunately, though, this is completely out of our hands - and there are upsides to how the system works as well. :)

I do appreciate your opinion, though, so please don't take this the wrong way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thesirion

Agreed. Such a literal translation is too awkward and counter productive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Triskal1

I agree. "It's the woman's newspaper" would also be fine. Annoying is also that the course will not let be proceed and finish the lesson in question if I do not give the unidiomatic translation "the newspaper is the woman's"; the same goes for "boken är mannens".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kaens

So did you try reporting it? It works!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/astenzel63

Unfortunately reporting doesn't work in the ipad app.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/signal_smoke

I just replied in windows 8, lets see if someone fix this!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nahuatl1939

or : the newspaper BELONGS to the woman, even if BELONGS is from another verb., but for the sake of good understanding it would be better, especially for those of us who are NOT native english speakers and I think we are quite numerous here ! it is also true that learning languages with DUO using an english basis is helping me to improve or rather refresh, it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/.NG.

Exactly, "the woman's newspaper" should be correct :/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Plugghest

Is this valid in Swedish grammar? In English it would make more sense to say "The newspaper belongs to the woman." or "It is the woman's newspaper."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

Yes, it's a valid sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/smrdasde

i really dont get the "the" part.Arghhhhh...!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deborah759134

I was studying through anothrt app that made more natural translations. But I really prefer Duolingo way to put it, because (apparently) it teaches also the sentences structure in Swedish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qrren
  • 1455

It really sounds like "tidningarna är kvinnans" to me. This is a hard one :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rach_jules

How do you hear the difference between

Tidningarna

And

Tidningen är


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/notofimport

If you listen closely, there's a definite difference. Teed-neeng-ar-na // teed-ning-en ar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Will709432

This sentence is fine in English. Similarly we might say "that paper is hers" or "that ball is the boy's (ball) , this ball is the girl's" ... if you're stressing a particular ball etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Neuer133

How to say " the newspaper is the women's " ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Tidningen är kvinnornas


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nahuatl1939

do you really say that in english ? i never heard it in my LONG life ! I understand they will say it in Swedish but I would translate it as " the woman's newspaper" or " the newspaper belongs to the woman" if I were to translate it for an english- speaking public.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

We do accept "the newspaper belongs to the woman" as well, but "the woman's newspaper" means something else.

Please consider that whatever we put as the default translation is what the system picks to show when you're asked to translate from English into Swedish. Hence, if we want to teach the Swedish construction properly, we'll frequently need to choose what would clearly not be the first choice of translation in a real-life scenario.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nahuatl1939

sorry, I hadn't read th other comments. so it is perfectly OK for me. But let me say that I had translated it as " the woman's newspaper" a few minutes ago AND IT WAS REJECTED .in spite of what Devalanteriel says in his post.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nahuatl1939

sorry once again ! your answer to my previous post appeared after I posted my last one ! But then, what do you mean when you say that you have edited your post to show the "Non" now. what " non" are you talking about then ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

In the post to which I was referring, I had originally written "using some idiomatic English will teach you certain Swedish constructions better". Triskal1 kindly pointed out that I had meant "non-idiomatic" rather than "idiomatic", so I edited said post to reflect this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nahuatl1939

yes, i see. thanks. i find these discussions highkly interesting. This is why i decided to take the French ( my mother tongue) German( my second mother-tonbgue, Spanish) li lve in South America for over 30 years, Portuguese and Itakiab, all lanbguages I speak very fluientky,


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Keromir

Is this even gramatically correct?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Yes... why would we put something that's not in the course?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Keromir

Thanks, but I just wanted to say that the ''The newspaper is the woman's.'' just sounds so odd, I don't know if any English native speaker would even use that sentence. If it's correct than ok.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Oh, I assumed you meant the Swedish phrase.

It's not the most natural English, no, but it's hard to teach the Swedish phrase using more idiomatic English here. Please see the top comment chain for my reasoning if you're interested.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WendyMueller

The 'correct' answer is not what one would normally say in English. If I heard someone say this, I would immediately know that English is not their mother tongue and that they are literally translating from their own language. More natural would be: It is the woman's newspaper. Seeing this has already been pointed out many times, I would have thought that this would have been altered to include the natural English translation, rather than the 'literal' translation, which is in this case 'unnatural' English. As a native English speaker, it goes very much against the grain having to learn and type in an 'incorrect' English sentence, for Duo to tell me that I have written the 'correct' translation. You so often cannot translate literally word-for-word, but must translate according to the meaning. If you start with 'The newspaper' in this sentence then you would have to use the word 'belongs', and then continue with 'to the woman.' Although I would say that that is not necessarily the correct translation here either, because she might have it to read but it may not necessarily be hers - she might have borrowed it. So more correct would be: It is the woman's newspaper.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Please see the top comment chain. I'm not trying to brush you off, but what you write about has already been answered.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlirezaJavadinia

It is not allowed to use definite form of words after possessive pronoun. For example, "Det är kvinans tidningen" is wrong and it should be "Det är kvinnans tidning" However, in this sentence the Tidningen as the definite form of word is used. What is the explanation?

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