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"Io sento di dover dimostrare qualcosa a loro."

Translation:I feel that I have to demonstrate something to them.

July 5, 2013

52 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dnovinc

When should we use dover, and would it be correct to use "dovere" instead?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/konsuntier

Question seconded... Can anybody help? It's a pity how the higher levels are devoid of users :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

sounded like mostrare to me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

I thing the e is often left off just to help the flow


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pedantic_git

I said 'I hear I should...' Why is this wrong? How do I distinguish between hear and feel?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/annag5

I agree. I thought I feel would be 'mi sento"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/craaash80

Just stick to the context and you will always find a clue. "Sentire" in italian means both "to feel" and "to hear".

So, you need to understand from the context if they are talking about their feelings, or about something they can perceive with their sense of hearing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jenaldrije

I agree, this sentence could go both ways, like they heard ahead of time that they would have to prepare a demonstration.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samig59

Concerning the italian phenomenon of grammatical truncation, see http://italian.about.com/od/linguistics/fl/italian-truncation.htm


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dave-ashby

This link appears to be broken.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arrotino

Why isn't feel expressed in the reflexive?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

to annagh5, carolbaker and arrotino, I believe the answer to all of you would be the same. I believe that if you are using sentire in the sense of feeling, feel like, etc then it should be used in the reflexive. Sentire alone can also express emotions but also come out as to perceive something with the senses, so would be appropriate in this case


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arrotino

That's a clear and concise explanation; thank you. For the longest time I had thought that the non-reflexive form meant "to hear" and that sentirsi was used for just about everything else. Checking my dictionary, I find far more examples for sentire than for sentirsi.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yogagirl777

Is the "di" really necessary - Leaving it out would be I feel I have to demonstrate.... means the same?

Sentire di = hear about. Now I'm really confused.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StuartWill1

Prepositions are so tricky to translate. They don't translate 1:1 the way many nouns and verbs do. It's honestly best to just drop everything you know about prepositions in your own language, and commit to memorizing how the new language uses them. I promise if you keep at it they will eventually start to "click" the way they do for your native language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Good reply have a lingot


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gardenhoser

Ok so the pattern i see is that they take off the 'e' at the end of the infinitive whenever it comes after 'di'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

I think it has more to do with coming before another infinitive. It just makes the words flow better, and it's a bit of a holdover from archaic Italian. If you read Dante, you'll see that infinitives are almost always used without the "e".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lunaexoriens

Is it possibile to say "Io sento che devo dimostrare qualcosa a loro"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

"io sento che" expresses a feeling/emotion and so has to be followed by the subjunctive mood


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lunaexoriens

Well, CreMark (native) wrote in this topic: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/1070474 " 'Sento che devo dimostrare loro qualcosa' is perfectly acceptable in italian", so I guess "che" doesn't always imply the subjunctive mood. Another example I have (from a song) is "Amore è quello che sento". However, I've heard that people don't use the subjunctive very often nowadays and maybe that is the answer. Please, tell me if you are a native Italian speaker, because I don't know what to believe in.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

I'm not a native speaker, but you are correct that the issue here is that the subjunctive is falling out of use. It's kind of like how an English speaker can say, "If I was a rich man," and be considered correct, despite their incorrect grammar. You can get away in Italy without ever using the subjunctive in conversation, but in writing, you want to use it if you want to sound educated. And since we're learning the language, it should be learned the correct way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Although locals are indeed using the subjunctive less, most people agree it is bad grammar. I hear the subjunctive all the time and so we should know how to use it correctly


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

No. "Sento che" requires a conjugation of some kind (in that case, the subjunctive). "Che" in that sense can't be followed by the infinitive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lunaexoriens

I did use a conjugated form, "devo" instead of "dovere". And I am not that sure that "che" always needs to be followed by the subjunctive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

In the way that "che" is being used here "Sento che/credo che/penso che/sembra che/etc." it is always followed by the subjunctive (and generally a change in the subject of the sentence). The only way around this is to use "di + infinitive".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paulski.35

How does dover mean "I have to"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pedantic_git

"Dover" is the infinitive form "to have to" ("I have to"/"I must" is "devo"). In Italian "Io sento di" is followed by an infinitive verb.

This verb is irregular in English because we have the first person "I must" but we don't have an infinitive form like Italian does ("to have to" is the closest).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John955060

That is my question also; since they're using the infinitive form of "dover", how do you know that it's "I feel I have to....", and not "I feel you have to...", or "I feel that he has to..." ? If it said "Io sento di devo dimostrare …..", that would make sense to me; the infinitive form does not indicate whether it's first, second or third person - or whether it's singular or plural for that matter; how do you know it's not "I feel that WE should demonstrate ….."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Because by using "[modal verb] di [infinitive]," it's indicating that the subject stays the same. If you were changing the subject, it would be "Sento che [new subject] [subjunctive conjugation]."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carinofranco

How is this different (i.e., dovere ....) from the construction "avere da...." that also conveys "have to do something" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

I've never seen that construction in Italian. Where have you encountered it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carinofranco

lots of places..dictionaries, textbooks, etc...ad esempio...ho molto da fare ...ho da pagare la bolletta. avere followed by da means have to do. i think avere da = Dovere, but I am not sure if it has the same weight or meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

I've literally never seen that construction translated that way. "Ho [molto] da fare," means "I am [very] busy," not "I have to do something." And I can't find any instances of "ho da pagare" anywhere. The "avere da" construction is sometimes used in subordinate clauses, like "Non vuoi sentire cosa ho da dire," but "have to" isn't functioning in the sense of "must" in that sentence.

It really seems like you're confusing this with the Spanish "tener que", which does have that meaning. But "avere da" just isn't used the way you're trying to use it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carinofranco

thanks for your detailed explanation. However, my Sansoni dictionary says that avere followed by da is equivalent to dovere and means "to have to do something". maybe other native speakers could comment. I am asking only to determine if This is a correct use of this form or if it may have a Different meanlng or may be regional Or outdated,


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

I went ahead and dug deeper online, and I found this forum thread: http://forum.wordreference.com/threads/avere-da-verbo.1082596/

The short version is that it can take on a similar meaning to "dovere" in some regions, but it's considered very poor grammar. You can get away with it in speech, but it's not preferable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Carino Franco I am not a native speaker and would not have thought ho molto da fare was "have to " but I have just checked my Oxford Paravia dictionary which has a whole paragraph on exactly that so I believe you are right. another example was " Ho da scrivere un relazione. I have to write a report. Also the negation, non avere che da can be replaced with dovere Non avevi che da dirmelo You should have told me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carinofranco

Nerevarine.., Thanks for your interesting link below. It seems that there is a range of opinion on the use of "avere da". I did not get from the discussion on the link you provided that it is poor grammar as you suggest, but it seems to be a milder version of "must do" relative to "dovere". For example in English, one saying "I have to go to the post office" might mean that I need to go there for some not too important reason, but it is not essential or mandatory (maybe to buy some stamps) Whereas, "I must go to the post office" implies a stronger reason to go there (e.g., My mail is being held up and i have an important letter to retrieve). I suspect the same distinction may hold in Italian. between "dovere" and "avere da" Nonetheless, thanks again for digging into it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/safibta

Perche non "al loro"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Because that would mean "to the them". "Al" is just an elision of "a il".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/safibta

Thanks, got it! ^_^


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stergi3

Why i am feeing is marked wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Because it's bad English. You wouldn't use the present progressive tense for this kind of sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/armandotij3

Doesn't dovere mean responsibility also


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

It can, but it's probably better translated as "duty" or "obligation" (a bit stronger than "responsibility"). It's similar to "il potere", which can mean "power". However, this sentence is unambiguously using "dovere" as a verb, and there's no translation of the noun form that would make sense, even if the article had been correctly attached..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elljaym

Comments (and the 'correct' answer) indicate that this is 'i feel' rather than 'I hear' - but how then would you write 'I hear that I have to demonstrate...' etc? Which Italian verb would you use if not sentire?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/april57

I took the liberty of making a litteral translation I feel a duty to show something to them. And of course itt was wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

That's not the literal translation when "dovere" doesn't have an article attached. It only becomes a noun when it's treated as one in the sentence; otherwise, it's a verb.

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