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"Var är morfars bruna skjorta?"

Translation:Where is grandfather's brown shirt?

November 24, 2014

49 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LukeBarker1

not sure why this is bruna and not brun? (since it is singular)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lundgren8

Because ”bruna” is also the definite form of ”brun”. When you use a possessive ”morfars”, the possessed thing must be in the definite. ”Min fina svarta katt”. ”Deras nya bil.” etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LukeBarker1

aha thought it might be that it was possessed, and that is a helpful explanation - thanks again Lundgren8! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CedSgm7N

That was helpful to me as well. Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JavadMousa3

Ok so why we don't use ..the..for grandmother's shirt


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

What do you mean?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lagolas2010

The person is probably interested why we don't use "THE grandmother's brown skirt" when we still use the definite form of the adjective "bruna"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Possessives are always inherently definite, in both Swedish and English. So if you want to talk about the map which belongs to the teacher, you say "the teacher's map" and not "the teacher's the map".

But you still need definite form of the adjective in Swedish, even though the noun doesn't take the definite form, and even though you don't use the article. So that's why you use bruna.

Regarding "THE grandfather", it's just uncommon to use articles when you're talking about your own relatives, like here. I know Russian doesn't quite work the same way but it's like how you'd normally say e.g. бабушка / дедушка without using a form of это, because the pronouns are basically treated like names.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lagolas2010

Well, that's in fact pretty much like in Russian, we use "дедушкинА коричневаЯ рубашка" instead of "Дедушка коричневый рубашка" so that makes the shirt belong to grandfather (we don't have any articles, neither definite forms :D) but when we use our English as a base language here, It's just interesting that we omitted articles. Speaking of English, I thought that despite the fact of using "grandfather's" we still should use either article and write either "a grandfather's shirt" or "the grandfather's shirt", I should have missed the topic of omitting articles when using possessives (or totally forgotten what the topic was about) in the English course


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

You'd normally need an article there for almost any noun - it's just that we use some family relations almost as names. It's mainly just these: mom, dad, grandma, grandpa.

So you're right, these are just a special exception. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zzzzz...

But is not the possessed thing in the indefinite form (katt instead of katten), whereas the defining adjective is in the definite form (fina). Or have I completely misunderstood how definite and indefinite are marked in Swedish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lundgren8

The noun is, because you can’t have a definite noun after a possessor, but an adjective is fine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ezra746950

Just as in English we do not say, where is grandfather's brown the shirt.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stravaiger64

But you don't say where is grandfather's the brown shirt either.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TessParker2

Ok that makes sense, but I don’t remember learning the definite form of adjectives yet. Only how they are used for an ett/en word or in the plural. Have I missed something? I did not know that bruna was the definite form of brun. Is that further in in the lesson? Tack så mycket.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dagmar_Frerking

I agree. That seems to happen at times in duolingo, that something gets thrown in that we haven't learned yet. I guess here we should have recognized 'skjorta' as singular and that 'bruna' must therefore be something other than plural. Sneaky!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Loiress

Please can you identify which earlier lesson we should have picked that up from?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SrMarien

When do you use var and when vart?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

Var asks for location.

Vart asks for direction.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/diego.jacobo

I thought I heard "våra" instead of "var är". Is there a tip to distinguish the two for a foreigner or I just need to train my ear more? Or is it the computer tone and when talking to an actual Swedish-speaker I will be able to make the distinction?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

Late answer, but I'm sure lots of others feel the same way. It's difficult for learners to hear the difference between the long a sound in Swedish and the å sound. So we often hear that learners think the long a sound sounds like an å. To me as a native speaker, the difference is huge, and I was surprised the first time I met someone who couldn't hear it. I think the computer voice does a pretty good job here, so the answer is probably just practice.
Listening to recordings of native speakers might help too: http://sv.forvo.com/search-sv/var/

PS the a at the end of våra is often blurred and in practice sounds like a schwa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwa so that one could easily be confused with an ä or e even by a native speaker, so for distinguishing that sound, improving your grammar skills could be more helpful than listening practice. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trilby16

Will I ever learn to recognize the spoken word for shirt?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lagolas2010

One day I hope you start recognizing words these all. And learn, learn to undestand Swedish, learn to speak. Demand what you will never deserve, Respect is gained by trust shown and earned, Don't mask your pride with humility, While forcing others to keep proving their loyalty, You've been a hypocrite for years, Drawing swords as much as you draw their tears, Demand what you will never deserve, Respect is gained by trust shown and earned.

You're taking steps on a fine line, So you don't have to choose a side, Good deeds are not recognized, When the heart's intent is full of pride

One day I hope you start recognizing words these all. And learn, learn to undestand Swedish, learn to speak...

One day, one day, one day One day, one day, one day


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trilby16

A year later, I'm doing much better at spoken Swedish! Thanks to Duo Robot Lady and Swedish TV shows.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CedSgm7N

It's been two years since you asked that question, so do you recognize it now?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RadomirVid

How do you guys pronounce -rt as in skjorta, I heard it being pronounced as hoocha but duo says it as rt and not ch? Tack så mycket.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vit.poriz

How would you say "Where are grandfathers brown shirts?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

skjortor instead.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Willem975258

My reply was rejected because of 'the ... shirt ' in my reply. Are you native Englisht speakers seriously saying, you would search for a certain and known shirt that is missing, without using definitive article? As if many of grandpa's brown shirts were lost, and anyone of them would be the search target?

In the discussion below you can read many arguments, why the shirt it is in definitive form. So, why not "Where is the grandfather's brown shirt". The...shirt.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

The possessive never takes the definite in English (nor in Swedish). If you say "the grandfather's brown shirt", then the article "the" is connected to "grandfather", not "shirt". And you'd never say "the grandfather" if you're talking about your own grandpa like here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Timislove

Maternal grandfather was not accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

That does not sound right in English. You need to say My maternal grandfather if you are going to use that expression.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luma341669

Besides no one says that


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohannDunn

They do if they have to specify which grandfather they're talking about, which the Swedish version does by necessity. You could say 'my mother's father', but 'my maternal grandfather' is used as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sotnosen93

The Swedish sentence isn't intentionally specifying which grandfather it is though, it's just specified by default due to how the language works, since there is no "neutral" word for grandfather. I'm a native Swedish speaker and I'd translate both "morfar" and "farfar" as "grandpa" in this context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gabejosh

I did, and it was not accepted... :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gabejosh

I mean: Arnauti, I did and was not accepted. I wrote: Where is my maternal grandfather's brown shirt?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

I'll add that. We tend to accept the translations using maternal/paternal more often in the earlier lessons, since there is a purpose in teaching the difference in Swedish between morfar and farfar - but not later since learners are expected to know the difference and use the more idiomatic translation.

However, this sentence actually comes really early in the tree, so I see no reason not to accept it all ways. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Briany20050

not sure why is "my grandmother"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

What do you mean? There's no grandmother in this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lagolas2010

It's not about grandmother, it's about "my". Why is it my grandfather's shirt and "the grandfather's" for example. I typed "the grandfathers" and it was marked wrong at "the" and "r's"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lagolas2010

Oh, nevermind, "Where is my grandfather's brown shirt" has just been accepted


[deactivated user]

    Skjorta means Shirt or Sweater?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bruyere97333

    I like the way Swedish, like many other languages, has a built in maternal or paternal word for grandparents or aunts and uncles. I'm wondering why in this example, "grandpa's shirt" wouldn't be added because that would work better in English. "Where is grandfather's brown shirt?", sounds stilted to me unless it's a character in a book or the nutcracker ballet. I don't think many people ever address their grandparents with the full word anymore in English. I'm a new grandmother so I was looking closely at this. In English or French, you have to choose a different name from the other person's name. I chose the third language of the household Italian as the other side doesn't have any Italian and it felt right. So when you say where is grandpa's brown shirt we know it's at least one of your grandfather's shirts. If there is a capital g it's even clearer. I also was thinking from watching bonus familje over as I progress, that I'm mormor to my new grandson as I'm his mother's mother but I would be farmor to my son's kids. The show has a farfar and then a farmor but they aren't spouses. Anyway the sentence in English would work with grandpa's shirt.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

    I'm wondering why in this example, "grandpa's shirt" wouldn't be added because that would work better in English.

    If that is what you wrote, then it's because you forgot "brown". I know for a fact that "Where is grandpa's brown shirt?" was accepted when I was a contributor, and I highly doubt anyone's removed that solution since. :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SpoonLikesFrogs

    I love that Swedish has the word morfar so you immediatly see it's your mothers father. It's awesome!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/britt668621

    So like a possesive even though it looks like a plural?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

    Pardon, which word do you mean?

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