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"Even grandfather is singing."

Translation:Till och med farfar sjunger.

3 years ago

28 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/ludwigzhou
ludwigzhou
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I am curious why the verb is not in the second position (Till och med sjunger farfar.) in this sentence?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lundgren8
Lundgren8
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I think it’s because ”till och med” (even) refers to ”farfar” so those two go together and form one constituent and then the verb is in the second position after that constituent: [Till och med farfar] [sjunger], but I’m not sure.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Arnauti
Arnauti
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I think you're right, interesting question though.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Arnauti
Arnauti
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Come to think of it, it would be possible to shorten this sentence to 'Alla sjunger', ('everyone's singing') which shows why "till och med farfar" is one constituent.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Saelil
Saelil
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I'm a little confused with this "till och med" expression. Does that mean for example in this sentence, that grandfather can do many things, and he can also sing, or does it mean, that many people sing (ex. at dinner), including grandfather. Can it be used in a family gathering, when someone refuses to sing, and the host says to him/her: "'Come on, sing, even grandfather is singing!" Or did I understand it wrong? :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ElGaleto
ElGaleto
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The second one, otherwise the translation would be "Grandfather can even sing" ("Farfar kan till och med sjunga", I guess...)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MesutS1
MesutS1
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What about "även farfar sjunger" would that work?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/volnam
volnam
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It did when I entered it, but I most certainly could not explain why.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kuiriale

Can somebody explain what till och med literally means? It's hard to remember expressions like this :(

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Zmrzlina
Zmrzlina
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It means even, as in something exceeding the expected.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kounsh
kounsh
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"Farfar sjunger ännu" is wrong? How would i say it with ännu?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lundgren8
Lundgren8
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That means ”Grandpa is still singing”.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ElGaleto
ElGaleto
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What's the difference between ännu and fortfarande then?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nihil.77swe
Nihil.77swe
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Har "Farfar sjunger också" samma betydelse?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Arnauti
Arnauti
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They're close, but not totally the same. Till och med farfar sjunger presupposes something like 'everybody is singing, even grandpa'. But Farfar sjunger också is more like, either 'some people sing, and so does grandpa' or it could have a context like, 'grandpa does a lot of things, he does this and that and he sings too'. So I'd say Farfar sjunger också is a lot like Grandpa sings too in English.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nihil.77swe
Nihil.77swe
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ja... naturligtvis... "even" vs. "too"... "till och med" vs. "också"... jag gör alltid dumma frågor... eheheh... tack i alla fall :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/shibopshibop
shibopshibop
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What is a literal translation of till och med? I'm guessing it's __ and ___.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/freymuth
freymuth
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It helps me to think of it as "up to and including".

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/David181923

That's brilliant! Thanks

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Zmrzlina
Zmrzlina
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"To and with"

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mercalyn
Mercalyn
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so "farfar till och med sjunger" essentially takes the meaning that grandfather is capable of many things, but even has the ability to sing beyond that?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ouzun

Are "till och med" and "även" same?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Zmrzlina
Zmrzlina
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No, but they overlap. Till och med indicates exceeding the expected, while "även" is mostly synonymous with också ("also").

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ZeinNader

Farfar sjungar ens

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Zmrzlina
Zmrzlina
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No, "ens" is used with "inte" (inte ens) in a negative sense of "even" (not even).

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/bigswedeej

Thank you for that. Ens is supposed to be one of the lesson's words but this is the first time i have seen it defined or used.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/niynu
niynu
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What happens to the V2 rule here?

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/devalanteriel
devalanteriel
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Please refer to the top comment.

1 month ago