"Even grandfather is singing."

Translation:Till och med farfar sjunger.

November 29, 2014

28 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/ludwigzhou

I am curious why the verb is not in the second position (Till och med sjunger farfar.) in this sentence?

November 29, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Lundgren8

I think it’s because ”till och med” (even) refers to ”farfar” so those two go together and form one constituent and then the verb is in the second position after that constituent: [Till och med farfar] [sjunger], but I’m not sure.

November 29, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Arnauti

I think you're right, interesting question though.

November 29, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Arnauti

Come to think of it, it would be possible to shorten this sentence to 'Alla sjunger', ('everyone's singing') which shows why "till och med farfar" is one constituent.

February 3, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Saelil

I'm a little confused with this "till och med" expression. Does that mean for example in this sentence, that grandfather can do many things, and he can also sing, or does it mean, that many people sing (ex. at dinner), including grandfather. Can it be used in a family gathering, when someone refuses to sing, and the host says to him/her: "'Come on, sing, even grandfather is singing!" Or did I understand it wrong? :)

March 1, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/ElGaleto

The second one, otherwise the translation would be "Grandfather can even sing" ("Farfar kan till och med sjunga", I guess...)

March 9, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/MesutS1

What about "även farfar sjunger" would that work?

March 29, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/volnam

It did when I entered it, but I most certainly could not explain why.

June 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/kuiriale

Can somebody explain what till och med literally means? It's hard to remember expressions like this :(

November 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Zmrzlina

It means even, as in something exceeding the expected.

November 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/shibopshibop

What is a literal translation of till och med? I'm guessing it's __ and ___.

December 15, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/freymuth

It helps me to think of it as "up to and including".

February 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/David181923

That's brilliant! Thanks

July 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Zmrzlina

"To and with"

December 15, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/kounsh

"Farfar sjunger ännu" is wrong? How would i say it with ännu?

December 29, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Lundgren8

That means ”Grandpa is still singing”.

December 29, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ElGaleto

What's the difference between ännu and fortfarande then?

March 9, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Nihil.77swe

Har "Farfar sjunger också" samma betydelse?

April 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Arnauti

They're close, but not totally the same. Till och med farfar sjunger presupposes something like 'everybody is singing, even grandpa'. But Farfar sjunger också is more like, either 'some people sing, and so does grandpa' or it could have a context like, 'grandpa does a lot of things, he does this and that and he sings too'. So I'd say Farfar sjunger också is a lot like Grandpa sings too in English.

April 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Nihil.77swe

ja... naturligtvis... "even" vs. "too"... "till och med" vs. "också"... jag gör alltid dumma frågor... eheheh... tack i alla fall :)

April 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Mercalyn

so "farfar till och med sjunger" essentially takes the meaning that grandfather is capable of many things, but even has the ability to sing beyond that?

May 9, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/ouzun

Are "till och med" and "även" same?

March 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Zmrzlina

No, but they overlap. Till och med indicates exceeding the expected, while "även" is mostly synonymous with också ("also").

March 29, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ZeinNader

Farfar sjungar ens

March 29, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Zmrzlina

No, "ens" is used with "inte" (inte ens) in a negative sense of "even" (not even).

March 29, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/bigswedeej

Thank you for that. Ens is supposed to be one of the lesson's words but this is the first time i have seen it defined or used.

May 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/niynu

What happens to the V2 rule here?

August 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/devalanteriel

Please refer to the top comment.

August 7, 2018
Learn Swedish in just 5 minutes a day. For free.