1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Italian
  4. >
  5. "È il pane di ieri."

"È il pane di ieri."

Translation:It is yesterday's bread.

July 9, 2013

108 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleMontart

Should it not be written "d'ieri"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blarkin0818

It is because "ieri' is actually pronounced with a consonant "y" sound and not a vowel "i" sound like in "d'Italiano"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Helenagoncalvesr

I think it is because it is Pane DI ieri and no Pane DE ieri...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JezWilkinson

The text-to-speech runs it together as if it were contracted, though...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IoSonoAmandaM

But "y" is still vowel sound. A contraction "d'ieri" makes sense to me. Still don't understand why it isn't correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

The "y" sound is classified as a semi-vowel or a glide. The IPA lists it in with the consonants, not the vowels.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P-Fogg

It's what he said. Italian grammar is concerned with how the language sounds, not how it is written. The i in ieri is pronounced as a consonant. The pronunciation would be nonsense if you contracted di treating it like a vowel.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/myselfandi

Second that. And if not, then why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jls332

this seems quite literal. Day old bread is something we would actually say in English whereas yesterday's bread is not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benyscott

Of course it is literal, Duolingo isn't here for you to learn how to say "Day old bread" in Italian, but to TEACH you italian. They ask you a literal translation because they want to check if you understand the structure of the sentence.

Even more importantly this sentence is in "Time" skills, so they are trying to teach you how to say "Yesterday" not that the bread is a day old.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EnchantedApril

Sometimes DL allows a more idiomatic translation. In order to translate it as "day old bread" one must still understand the meaning of "ieri."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/renata941696

But I am learned from your answer how to say day old bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie852846

Right thanks for the telling off.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flex567

"It is the yesterday's bread" ??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benyscott

Get rid of "the" and you got it :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aserebrenik

Why should one get rid of "the"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

Because we don't use definite articles in possessive constructions in English. We say X's Y, not "the X's Y".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/another-dave

Well we could (e.g. "the king's head") — I would've thought it's that we don't use it with time generally (today/yesterday/Monday/March).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

Right. I could have given my comment more thought.

What I should have said was that we only include "the" if the noun phrase itself takes "the" prior to taking the possessive. We don't use "the" just because it's a possessive phrase.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pye20

Tonight is the last night we will be here. [ Tonight = adverb | last = adjective | night = noun | ]

We were here last night. [ last night ‧ time adverbial ]

www.englishteachermelanie.com/grammar-when-not-to-use-the-definite-article/

‧ An adverb of time is an adverb (such as soon or tomorrow) that describes when the action of a verb is carried out. Also called a temporal adverb. An adverb phrase that answers the question "when?" is called a temporal adverbial. ‧ www.thoughtco.com/adverb-of-time-grammar-1692460

Child: Will you be home soon?
Parent: No, I won't be home until later.
Child: The sooner you get home, the better.

forum.duolingo.com/comment/1012366/When-to-use-the-definite-article

learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/en/english-grammar/adverbials-time

When did you arrive? The day before yesterday.

What is the time you arrive tomorrow?
What time do you arrive tomorrow?

What time is it now?
What is the time now?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sujitkulkarni

FYI: raffermo, stantio = old,stale


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duolessio

I know it's an exception, but you can leave out the article in Italian too, in this case:è pane di ieri is fine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

Do you have a source for that information?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duolessio

I'm a native Italian speaker and that sounds totally fine to me. I found this link (in Italian):

http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/partitivo_(Enciclopedia_dell'Italiano)/

Paragraph 3. Articolo zero: it says that you can omit the partitive article when the noun is after the verb. So you can say "è pane di ieri" but not "pane è di ieri". In that case you need the article: "il pane è di ieri".

Now, I know that "il" is not a partitive article, that would be "del". So if you say "è pane di ieri" you are grammatically closer to "è del pane di ieri", but the difference in meaning is so little that they are used interchangeably.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duolessio

Prego, di nulla! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maluferrari

I wrote "it is THE yesterday's bread" and duolingo marked as wrong, why? il=the


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aykut123

As "il" refers to bread, you must say "the bread of yesterday" or "yesterday's bread".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maluferrari

well the article "the" in English refers to bread also, not to yesterday...you would never say "the" yesterday in English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chris.stan2

Yesterday's bread was marked wrong. "It's yesterday's bread". Don't see the difference


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RJasonT

You left out the verb making this a noun and an adjective not a sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jesslc

Because "it is the yesterday's bread" is not good English.

Italian often uses the definite article (il/la/lo/etc) in situations where English would leave it out. Part of learning a second language is learning these kind of differences and recognising that you often can't just translate completely literally if you want to speak good English or Italian. Yes, I realise that makes it harder to learn.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

Exactly. Different language, different rules. If different languages were the same with just different words, we wouldn't need lessons, just dictionaries.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steinor

if its "di ieri" shouldn't it mean "its the bread of yestarday", and not the bread "from"yesterday??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blarkin0818

In this case, "di" is indicating possession. This is why when you say "il libro di Maria", it means "Maria's book", not "the book of Maria". Hope this helps: http://italian.about.com/library/fare/blfare157a.htm


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cegev

"of" in this form can also indicate possession in English, however; "bread of yesterday" and "yesterday's bread" can have the same meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Telisa7

As blarkin0818 says, it indicates possession. But having said that, it would be very uncommon in English (at least in the central US, where I live) to have someone say something "of" yesterday rather than using "from".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkEccles

"It's the bread from yesterday" - incorrect. I swear man.....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/undinenstaub

why is it wrong to say: It is bread of yesterday? I mean "it's bread of yesterday" would count. I don't see the reason therefore...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blarkin0818

In this case, "di" is indicating possession. This is why when you say "il libro di Maria", it means "Maria's book", not "the book of Maria". Hope this helps: http://italian.about.com/library/fare/blfare157a.htm

Additionally, if you wanted to use this sentence structure in English, it would make more sense to say "it's bread FROM yesterday", so in this case we would use "da" instead of "di".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KarenColle

This comment was very helpful. ..grazie!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/diogogomez

This comment by blarking0818 isn't correct. The preposition "of" in English is preferable than "from" in this case, when saying something of yesterday, or something of tomorrow.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/m1c45

i hope it doesn't go stale


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HappyBeaver

I'm not English native, so I'm not sure: is it an idiom? (the phrase "it is yesterday's bread")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SallyBrown1

No. English speakers call it "day-old bread."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ikaeeel

Bread of yesterday is kinda same with yesterday's bread. Right? I don't get it why Duolingo didn't accept my answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eagle563

Bread of yesterday is implying that the bread is yesterday's but, it isn't correct English to say "Bread of yesterday".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeoneGDM

That's really bad English. Better translation is "it's yesterday's bread"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oliviaskit

Why not "The bread is from yesterday"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ante493104

"The bread is from yesterday" isn't correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Virgil50AD

Pane fresco per favore!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DecoyPhone

"Day old, DAAAAAY old bread ... " - Peggy Bundy


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matthew694784

Where I come from we'd say "It's day-old bread."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaksuPepe

Could this be said: "Il pane è di ieri." ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Telisa7

If you were trying to say "the bread is from yesterday" that would literally be it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JuliaFairbairn

you could not hear me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/deti1959

the bread is from yesterday??? is wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/faezeha

why ' it is the yesterday's bread' is wrong?!!!...il pane means the beard !!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan-Fran

why not it is day old bread ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/myrtlering

What is wrong with "Is the bread from yesterday"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

Because it's a statement, not a question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Telisa7

"It" needs to be included at the beginning of the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EspaTalia

Why didn't it accept "This" in place of "It"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

Because "this" and "it" are not interchangeable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ursula479688

Why not day old bread ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wakefield9

I know "day old bread" is not the literal translation, but it is the way we would say it in most places in American English :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doctor_ewhoktin

I put down ' It is the bread's yesterday'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carissa789117

Wrote day old bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maria711988

It is the bread from yesterday?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RonCousino

In English we would say it is day old bread!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeMMArn

I wrote: It is bread from yesterday & it was accepted!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/biscuitamericain

are we actually talking about 'bread' here, or is this an idiom for 'old news' or 'yesterday's news'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnBarham1

Grammatically correct or no , in spoken language it's 'd'ieri'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarvenOrd

Why isn't "it's the yesterday's bread" correct? What's the difference?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

English does not use articles like that in possessive phrases.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P-Fogg

We wouldn't say that in English, sounds very awkward. If you want to translate it literally I'd suggest "it is the bread of yesterday" but that still sounds odd.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeowCharlie

Forget yesterday's bread. The bread of the future is coming right up!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

I'm not above discounted day-old bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amy297740

I look at it almost like it's a question is the bread from yesterday the way it is written. Not a statement. If the word options would have not been there for me I would not have chosen it to be said that way. I would have translated it as "Is the bread from yesterday"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SilvieV.

Why can't be It is THE yesterday's bread? There is IL pane...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

Because we're not just blindly plugging in words. English and Italian say things differently and have different grammar rules. We do not say "the yesterday's bread" in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RonBlissett

It is bread from yesterday was accepted 3rd Feb. 2020 .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thechaseison

Duh! Why can't I put "it's yesterday's bread? "


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P-Fogg

Obviously that is the same as DLs answer. Are you sure you spelled it exactly like that with the apostrophe? If so report it should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mudwoman

Why is "this bread is from yesterday" incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

You're changing the grammar around: It is bread from yesterday vs This bread is from yesterday.

First, you're separating a noun phrase that's in the predicate and making the noun the subject, rather than having a pronoun in the subject.

Second, you're adding more information than was there by saying "this". "It" is a generic pointer. "This" specifically places the item in question proximal to the speaker, just as "that" places the item distal from the speaker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dancrayZ

Yuck day old bread :P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DonKingsle

But then, did you taste the bread to be sure it was that of yesterday? Lolzzzzz


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielsson-44

In my humble opinion IT'S YESTERDAY'S BREAD without The means that the bread belongs to yesterday's, which is total nonsense. There should be either THE YESTERDAY'S (because THE BREAD) or A YESTERDAY'S BREAD (because A BREAD- when mentioned for the first time.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

In English, we do not use articles with constructions like this.

My cat, not The my cat.
A chair, not A his chair.

Italian is a different language with different grammar rules. You can't shoehorn one into the other.

Also, the genitive is about much more than simple possession. In this case, it refers to bread that was made yesterday, or slightly more idiomatically, bread from yesterday.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A-wryyy-vederci

This is a little poetic to be talking about some stale bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nihatsarp

"it is the yasterday's bread" acceptable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/spelled

Why "This bread" marked as wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cleopold1

the bread is from yesterday


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dancrayZ

(To: David Vartanian) Been there done that :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

Instead of cluttering the page with top-level comments that aren't connected to anything, you need to reply directly to the comment in question. Like what I'm doing here now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amy297740

I agree it drives me insane when I'm trying to learn something and I have to fish through all the stupid comments.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dancrayZ

(To um6661138) Sorry but DL does not grade you for comedy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2185

If you hit "Reply" directly under someone's comment instead of making a brand-new comment, conversation threads would be kept together neatly instead of scattered confusingly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dancrayZ

I did that because I was on my phone and reply didn't work.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/davidvartanian

I made a mistake in english, but I am learning italian. It is supposed that the grader just looks for mistakes in the language I'm leaning...

Learn Italian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.