"Me gustaría que tú tuvieras un teléfono más moderno."
Translation:I would like for you to have a more modern phone.
138 Comments
This is more like "I wish you had a more modern phone" to me... Like my girlfriend is using my phone and receives a message from her friend, with a picture of her newborn baby, but pictures are not supported by my antic phone, so she says, ironically: "Me gustaría que tú tuvieras un teléfono más moderno."
The thing that's confusing about gustaría is the same thing that's confusing about gustar in general, which is that it's used as frequently in Spanish as "like" is in English, but the subject/object relationship is backwards. It's closer in meaning to English "please", as in: This apple pleases me. Me gusta esta manzana.
So if you wanted to be hyper literal, you'd translate this prompt as: It would please me if you had a more modern telephone. As soon as you phrase it with English's own conditional form of the correct verb, the second verb drops nicely into a past-tense form.
But of course, translating to the version using "would like" is much more natural for English. The structures of the two language don't match well for this type of sentence, so something has to give.
1731
So if you wanted to be hyper literal, you'd translate this prompt as: It would please me if you had a more modern telephone. As soon as you phrase it with English's own conditional form of the correct verb, the second verb drops nicely into a past-tense form.
I think it's actually the "if" you added that makes the difference. I could just as easily say "I would like it if you had a more modern phone".
Of course there's no literal "si" in the Spanish sentence, but it's implied by the que + subjunctive right?
I guess? The combination of the conditional and past-subjunctive definitely tells us we're talking about some kind of counter-factual, and that's often easiest / most-natural to express in English with "if", even if Spanish wasn't using "si". It's very hard to translate subjunctive-mood stuff between Spanish to English on a word-for-word basis. (See: Quiero que tú vayas. In English, we express these things with an infinitive: I want you to go. We can say: I wish that you would go. But it's not the most common / obvious way to say it. But the "to" in the best translation doesn't correspond to anything in the Spanish. The two languages just treat this idea differently.)
- 1731
It's very hard to translate subjunctive-mood stuff between Spanish to English on a word-for-word basis.
Yeah I fully understand what you're saying, I wasn't trying to turn it into something formulaic, just noting that "if" probably conveys the idea best in English in this specific case (and I should have noted that the conditional factors into that).
- 424
"I would like if you had a more modern phone." is accepted, but "I would like you had a more modern phone.' is not. Why can not one omit if here?
- 1731
"I would like that you had a more modern phone" is technically correct in English I think, but quite old-fashioned sounding.
That's the way I reckon, too. And it annoys me, that the 'correct' solution "tuvieras"= "to have" . Still in many other places DL is very punctual and does not approve similar changes of a student - not even if the answer were grammatically correct. It seems to me, that when there is a 'matching' colloquial expression, it'd be best use that. (which I detest).
I really wish if Doulingo would accept "please" as a translation for "gustar". It would make a great deal of difference, from the top of this tree till the end. Why they refuse to accept it is beyond me. After all, we should be learning Spanish, not literal English translations.
I think it would be nice if it were accepted, but I think they're right to treat "I like [X]" as the canonical translation of "me gusta [X]", because in terms of how common the phrases are, and what they mean to speakers of the two languages, they're an excellent match.
I totally agree with you, just think perhaps they can accept both. I mean, whenever I encounter "me gusta" or any form of "gustar" and the sentence doesn't make sense to me, I translate it -in my head- to "he/she/it pleases me ...etc" and the confusion is gone!
I tried "I wish you would have a more modern phone" sensing somehow that my answer will be rejected, although I don't understand why Duo doesn't want to match 'me gustaria que' with 'I wish'. As a matter of fact, not only are these two structures synonymous, but they are also followed by a verb in subjunctive mood in both languages (in English the Subjunctive Mood is in most cases identical with Past Simple or Past Perfect of the Indicative Mood, the only difference being the use of plural 'were' with singular subjects, which in modern English is no longer considered mandatory - lots of people would say "if I was you", for instance)
I wish - present indicative - Yo deseo
I would like - conditional tense - me gustaría
Yes, but they are still synonyms. Unlike 'me gustaria' in Spanish, "I would like" can only be followed by an infinitive, whereas "I wish" is followed by one of three things: (1) a clause with a verb in the present subjunctive (in English it coninsides with the past simple indicative as in "I wish they were there"), (2) a clause with a verb in the past subjunctive which is identical with the past perfect indicative (e.g. "I wish they had been there"), or (3) a clause with a verb in the conditional (e.g. I wish they would/could be there). In this case we have to choose between using different syntax structures in the two languages and matching tenses in the subordinate clause at the cost of replacing "I would like" with "I wish". We often get frustrated in trying to figure out what to sacrifice in an effort to please the silly owl who seems to be obsessed with word-for-word translations and perfect matches of tenses (an impossible thing for any pair of languages belonging to to different groups)
- 629
I wish and I would like just mean different things. They are similar, but not the same. I wish is me in the present tense, wishing for something. I would like is me in the conditional mood, expressing what I would think if a certain thing were true.
For example, right now I'm not currently wishing for someone to give me a million pounds; it's so unlikely that it doesn't occur to me to think about it. ...but would like it if it happened.
I've never said "I wish" and "I would like" mean the same thing. I only said that "I wish you would/could have" means the same as "I would like you to have". Every language has its own tradition of expressing the idea of liking and wishing. Italian, for instance, uses 'mi piace' - literally, 'it pleases me' for 'I like'; the same is true about Russian; Spanish uses 'me gusta' ('it appeals to my taste'); in some turkic languages the idea is expressed by the words that literally translate as 'it comes to me', some languages use special suffixes attached to the verb that denotes the object of liking or wishing, etc. My point is that one cannot demand a perfect syntax match in translation - that would just be silly, but, unfortunately that's exactly what Duo and some of its supporters do all the time.
- 1731
"I wish you would have a more modern phone"
Maybe it was rejected because you're using the conditional "would have" instead of just "had"?
"I wish you had a modern phone" means the same as "I'm sorry you don't have a modern phone'. "I wish you would have a more modern phone" means the same as "I would like you to have a modern phone". My understanding is that the Spanish sentence is closer closer in meaning to the latter. Pls correct me if I am wrong. What I refuse to accept as a valid translation is "I would like that you had..." as this isn't the way the word 'like' collocates in English.
Dmitry- The problem is that the verb "wish" has very complicated rules in English. It follows the same rules as reported speech. The verbs back shift. If the verb after wish/said/told was present simple it becomes past simple. For example, "You are fine." becomes "I told you that you were fine" in reported speech. "You have a modern phone" would become "I wish you HAD a modern phone." I suspect that "You would have a modern phone" would become "I wish you would have had a modern phone."
Technically, you can use wish + would + infinitive. For example, "I wish you would stop making so much noise." However, "I wish you would have a more modern phone" seems a bit awkward to me. It seems to be missing a past participle. "I wish you would have had a more modern phone." In any case, "I wish you had" would be far more common.
In addition, there are some subtle differences of meaning between "I would like you" and "I wish you would."
Wish is usually for something that you would like but think is probably impossible (except for birthday and holidays for some reason) or at the very least very unlikely.
-
I wish I could fly
-
I wish you would disappear from the earth
-
I wish you would stop drinking
On the other hand, "I would like" is a polite way of making a request:
-
I would like some water please ("Give me some water" would be seen as rude.)
-
I would like you to be quiet ("Shut up" would be the rude version.)
"I would like you to have a more modern phone" is the polite version of "Get a modern phone!" Whereas, ""I wish that you had a more modern phone" or "I wish you would get a more modern phone" means that I'd really like it if you did have/get a better phone but consider that to be very unlikely for some reason.
Can someone explain to me why this is "tuvieras" and not simply "tengas"?
If the main clause is conditional, imperfect, preterite, or pluperfect, then the subordinate clause is usually imperfect subjunctive.
"A New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish: Fifth Edition" (Butt and Benjamin, 2011, chapter 16, section 2.4)
That whole chapter is a wonderful explanation of all the ins and outs of the subjunctive, by the way.
So... "quiero que tú tengas un teléfono más moderno", but "yo quisiera que tú tuvieras un teléfono más moderno?
And I guess with quería it would be the same as last example; "yo quería que tú tuvieras un teléfono más moderno". Is that right? Or have I missed something? Thanks!!
- 528
Yes, it is the past subjunctive, and the subjunctive is needed because it is a wish.
This link was given in the discussion at the start of the module, and it explains it really well:
I know why it's subjunctive, but I was asking why it's imperfect subjunctive rather than present subjunctive. Is imperfect subjunctive always used with conditional tense verbs (i.e. gustaría)?
- 528
Ah, I wasn't sure how you got to this question because I came across an example of these earlier than the subjunctives section and it threw me for a total loop.
The example is imperfect because it an unfulfilled wish expressed in a passive-aggressive hypothetical way. Imagine your significant other sighing as you pull out your beloved classic Blackberry to check email and them saying this. It is not a wish that is going to be answered.
My understanding of gustaria is that, because that word is used either to phrase a very polite request or express a hypothetical situation, it is always an imperfect. A very polite request does not presume to assume that it will be fulfilled, and so uses this tense. A hypothetical not to be taken seriously as a request, so it is also incomplete.
If anyone has a better/clearer/more correct explanation I would really appreciate knowing more.
Great answer, that really gives a sense of what the imperfect subjunctive means
My Spanish teacher explained to me that if you use the past tense of the subjunctive and want to use the subjunctive again, the next instance has to be in the past tense.
Yes, conditional verbs require either imperfect subjunctive or past perfect subjunctive.
That would be the past perfect, which is different from the preterite, so no, though that is the more natural way to say it in English.
No, the "have had" is the wrong tense. It should simply be "to have".
Unfortunately, Duolingo isn't teaching all the subjunctive tenses. It's like somebody giving you a puzzle with a bunch of missing pieces. So I've had to look to other sources. I'm just learning, but I think that the following is correct (and will check with my Spanish teacher). Please let me know if any of you who are very familiar with all these tenses in both English and Spanish see any problems.
- I would like you to have (conditional + infinitive) = me gustaría que tuvieras (conditional + imperfect subjunctive)
According to one book, "Despite the claims of many traditional grammars, there are no rigid rules of tense agreement between the main clause and subordinate clauses, but the following patterns are the most usual patterns: conditional or conditional perfect + imperfect subjunctive."
I'm not sure about the following sentences. None of the books seem to talk much about the present perfect subjunctive but I hear it frequently on television. However, you can't use the conditional with the present perfect subjunctive in Spanish. Other sources say that you can use the conditional and conditional past with the past perfect subjunctive, but would the meaning be different? Part of the issue may be that just because it would be present perfect in English, it might be a different tense in the Spanish subjunctive.
-
I would like you to have had (conditional + present perfect) = Me gustaría que tuvieras? (conditional + imperfect subjunctive? )
-
I would have liked you to have had (conditional past + present perfect) = Me habría gustado que hubieras tenido? (conditional past + past perfect subjunctive?)
Maybe these have to be phrased in different ways without the conditional?
-
I wish that you had (present + preterit) = Desearía que tuvieras ... (conditional + imperfect)
-
I wanted you to have had (imperfect + present perfect) = Quería que tu hubieras tenido (imperfect + past perfect subjunctive)
My understanding of the past subjunctive of Spanish is that the verb should always be translated into the past tense in English, thus "tuvieras" should be translated "had" in this sentence and not "have"
Their translation says, "to have." That's the unconjugated infinitive, and it's one correct way of saying it.
ArizonaKeith, See my comment below -- I woud like if you had a more modern telephone -- was accepted. It seems to me like a truer translation of the subjunctive mood whatever the heck that is.
i guess 'I would like for you to have' and 'i would like you had' are equivalents.
"I would like you had" is not a possibility in English. "I wish you had" is a usable English construction here, or "I would like you to have." But they are not interchangeable. The "wish" version implies that the speaker thinks you need to get yourself a new phone, the "would like" version would be more likely if the speaker was in the act of giving "you" a new phone.
I tried get around this with "would have liked you to have" but they did not accept it or offer any suggested answers with the past tense in it.
"I would like for you to have.." The word "for" is redundant and not used in British English at least. It's the sort of phrase an ESOL learner would say, but not a native speaker.
"I would like that you had a more modern telephone" seems like a valid answer, given that the subjunctive past in English is "had," right?
yes and it was accepted by DL "i would like that you had a more modern telephone" - but axis answer seems more like what one would say - susbtituting "I wish" for "I would like that"
I am so confused on this entire lesson. It is supposed to be PAST subjunctive, right? How are any of these sentences in the past? It appears to me at least that this sentence is in the present...why is it not just present subjunctive?
I could see how it could be past subjunctive if the sentence was "I would have liked for you to have had a more modern phone", as that indicates a past desire that may or may not have been fulfilled. The current sentence...I don't get it...
Anyone care to explain?
I got away with que translating to 'if' which doesnt make sense to me yet i just guessed based on a previous correct answer marked wrong. But now it says que translates to 'for.' So basically im losing basis for making guesses. Once and for all how does que work? I feel like this should have been covered in the begining
Que really means "that" here. Literally, the sentence says "I would like that you had a more modern telephone." That just doesn't sound good in English, so they changed the translation a little bit. Que doesn't really mean "for." "For" is a more natural preposition for this sentence in English. "I'd like for you to have a more modern telephone." Personally I'd just go with "I'd like you to have a more modern telephone." Not sure if that's accepted or not.
In Spanish, "que" is always used in this construction and has to be there. The conditional verb + que + imperfect subjunctive verb is a fairly common construction for showing desire.
The first time around I put " I would like for you to have a telephone that is more modern." I got rejected because they wanted to replace "is" with "was". So the second time, I put "was" instead of "is". I got rejected yet again, and was told to use "is". Using "was" just isn't natural US English. I reported it. Anyone else having problems with this?
When translating from the base language, it still has to be grammatically correct in the target language, therefore i answered "I would like that you would have a more modern telephone". If the tú were omitted, perhaps we could answer " I would like that you had a more modern telephone"
por favor, por que no puedo usar si in lugar de que? los dos palabras son usado con el subjuncivo, si.
The translation above - like for you - sounds foreign to those who speak English [or NZ] English. Guess DL is Nortamericano!
I've never heard any native speaker of English say 'I'd like that you had...', only 'I'd like you to have...' and 'I wish you had...'. On the other hand, there are native speakers who say grammatically awful things such as 'I says' and 'he don't'.
I've heard it. It's a bit antiquated, but proper. Not used much today. I can remember phrases like that coming from my Aunts, Uncles, and grandparents.
- 21
Surely more natural to say "I wish you had a more modern telephone" - but this gets marked as incorrect.
- 629
It probably is a more natural sentence, but it's not an accurate translation. Me gustaria means I would like
Wishes can take the subjunctive OK. My guess is that the translation is perfect, but it just is not in the database with the exact wording. Duolingo doesn't mark things wrong; it just matches your sentence with what is in the database. It is a weakness, but then the service is free. Don't take it personally.
This section needs another lesson because there are a few sentences that appear while strengthening that I'm just too unfamiliar with.
Hey bean, can you give any examples?
Not sure if you're English but this section is quite difficult for us because we don't really use this construction. I think it helps not to be too literal about it but get the general "mood", which the subjunctive is. As you know we can express the same thing ( more or less) many ways often, but they all have a general "mood"or feeling.
So literally something like Me gustaria would be......it would be pleasing to me. So roughly in everyday English we could say I would like it if, It would be good if, I wish that, It is my desire, it is my hope.... etc etc... ( some obviously far more common) but all with a similar "mood" The que part is very important as this triggers the subjunctive. Literally it would be something like It would please me that...but instead of "that" in English "if" is probably a good "translation" or feel.
We then just complete the sentence with another part and in Spanish they use the "que" which triggers the subjunctive. For example.... in this instance. " Me gustaria que ( I would like it if) tuvieras un telefono mas modero.
I would like it if you had a new phone....
And I wish that we could all speak fluent Spanish....
Yes, these two sentences for example are not covered when I review the Subjunctive Past lesson. I struggled with some of the strengthening exercises and when returning to the lesson, did not get any benefit from it. I don't think "hiciera" appears at all and the dropdown hints are often not helpful or even derailed me further from the correct translation. I'm saying it would be helpful if the Subjunctive Past section had 2 or 3 lessons to help us get a better understanding. https://www.duolingo.com/comment/1067705 https://www.duolingo.com/comment/770535
Absolutely!! I agree. They could have 10 lessons and I'm fairly sure ( for many) it wouldn't be enough. It is quite a complex subject and certainly one that I continue to struggle with. However there is lots of useful info out there on youtube etc and some good examples in the Discussion section and the comments on here which hopefully will help to start demystifying it for you a little and as with anything once you start to know a bit more about it or the situations where you use it, it does start to become a little easier.
For me its useful to first look at the conjugation ( another minefield aaagghh) change my a to e ,my e to a, my go to ga etc etc etc.
Then forget about exactly what we would say in English and how the literal translation sounds strange ( Unless you are a Duchess in the 19th century, or Maggie Smith in Downton Abbey) and just know that in Spanish when they say X it automatically triggers Y ( whether you like it or not). So as one example to express a wish or a hope is Spanish you would use the subjunctive, always and automatically..... I hope you have a good day.....Espero que tengas un buen dia. Just learn that they do it for this and use it. Don't get too freaked out about the Why? or the literal translation and word order, the "we would never say that..." brigade. No we may not,but they would and do!!
There are many other standard phrases or "moods" that "trigger" the subjunctive many of which are preceded ( but not exclusively or automatically ) by "que"...as before Espero que.... Quiero que....Es probable que... No Estoy seguro de que etc etc. So to express, doubt, wishes, hopes, opinions, imperatives/orders are all areas where they use this lovely tense. Anyway this is now getting overly long and probably adding to your confusion
Keep on truckin'
:)
tl;dr I think two or three lessons would have put it on par with other sections as far as the learning curve.
I don't think the English translation here sounds quite right. Obviously GUSTAR QUE triggers the subjunctive, but I think a more natural translation would be something like 'I would like it if you had a more modern/up to date phone.'
- 711
I have done this sentence correctly (according to Duo) several times, so I decided to try what seemed to me to be a more accurate translation: "It would please me that you would have a more modern telephone." Marked wrong. Any constructive input appreciated.
I translated to "I would like that you would have a more modern telephone" and was counted wrong because I included the que (that) and did not add the pronoun "it" which I believe could be implied (it is not part of the actual Spanish sentence) but it is not required to make the sentence acceptable grammar. Anyone know why this was identified as incorrect? Should I report a problem?
"I would like that you would have" is an impossible syntax structure in modern English, that's why. You should have said "I would like you to have" instead.
My translation is correct. One of your answers, "I would like for you to have ...." is poor English
I would like you to have a more modern phone --- this is a more correct English translation that the one you have provided.
- 711
Sorry, I hope that I am not adding to the clutter, but I don't have time right now to read 121 comments to see if mine is redundant. I am wondering why, in this kind of question, the translation does not reflect the actual meaning of "me gustaria" (at least, as I understand it). Would it be reasonably accurate to translate this sentence as, "It would please me if you were to have (or, "if you had") a more modern telephone."?
"I would like it were you to have a more modern telephone" is a correct English translation .
'I would like you to have 1 more modern phone'????
Why did you let somebody to put incorrect translation above. Please, return to the right one..
Because it is not natural English. "I would like you to have..." is the most common way of saying it.
The translation into English, is not good English. It sounds like whoever wrote it, either doesn't know proper English, or it is not their primary language. I would like for you... is not an English construct.
- 651
DL told me "I would like if you would have a more modern telephone" was incorrect, but that I should have said "I would like it if...." Grrr.
'I would like for you to have...' This is not a grammatically correct sentence in English.
- 217
this would not be said in British english. the word for doesn't follow like. we'd simply say I'd like you to have ...
There is a case to be made for "if you got a more modern telephone," since getting is the process that leads to having.
Yes, actually the "got" was not what I typed in the answer. I have corrected the quote to "have" as was entered for the response
I missed the subject "tú", didnt really missed it because it can be ommited and yet it is wrong
Report it. The subject is understood from the verb and is often left out if it is already clear from the context. If you are speaking directly to someone, you usually omit "tú". If we were having a conversation about John, for example, I could say, "me gustaría que él tuviera" or "me gustaría que tuviera". In either case, the listener would understand that your are talking about "él" and not the lady across the street.
I translated it as "I would like it if you had a more modern telephone" and that works fine. El sentido es lo mismo, y así se traduce.
I think you're translating a little too literally. I'm not sure if 'wrong', but definitely very unnatural.
The most natural translation is ""I wish you had a more modern telephone."" Wishes are always pleasing if fulfilled.
The following passage is addressed to native Spanish speakers. Consider three authentic English sentences: "I wish you had a more modern telephone."(= It's a shame you don't have one), "I wish you would have a more modern telephone." which implies "I think you deserve a better telephone", and "I wish you had had a more modern telephone."(=In a situation previously discussed which is now in the past you had an old model of a telephone which prevented you from doing something I had hoped you would be able to do. I am sorry about that). How would you render these three sentences in Spanish?
Is this esatdosunidos-ese? It would sound most strange in my neck of the woods. In NZ we would say, I wish you had a more modern phone.
Me gustaría que tuvieras un teléfono más moderno. En español no se necesita el tú en esta oració o estoy equivocada?
I tested "It would please me that you would have a telephone more modern." Wasn't accepted. That is the literal, accurate translation, is it not?
Hi...no I don't think so...it isn't " would have" they use the verb tuvieras so it is "you had". I think if you want " would have" you would need the conditional form tendrias ( with an accent on the a)
Your answer is not bad but not the best. Answers are accepted by a computer, not a person, and the computer looks to see if your answer has been stored in a database. If not, the computer doesn't accept your answer, although it may be correct, but not anticipated by the staff..
"I would like for you to have a more modern phone."
This is definitely not english
"Much" isn't an adverb in English, and even if you replace it with "very" I'm not sure that's a good translation of the Spanish sentence.
"Much" IS an adverb, but it only collocates with adjectives in the comparative degree, e.g. "much bigger" or "much further"; therefore, you cannot say "much big" or "much far" or "much modern".
