"Loro erano vissuti insieme."

Translation:They had lived together.

July 10, 2013

40 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Omazie

By the way, why is is it "erano vissuti" and not "avevano vissuto"? I thought vivere was conjugated with avere and not essere. Are both options possible and is there any difference between their meaning?

July 10, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/f.formica
Mod
  • 2175

The dictionary says the main auxiliary is essere, and in some meanings avere; honestly, I feel that they're more or less interchangeable, as long as the usage agrees with the standard rules, i.e. when used transitively you must use avere ("ha vissuto una lunga vita").

July 10, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Omazie

Thanks! That's great. Funnily enough, I checked the conjugator tool on wordreference and it said that avere was the main auxiliary. Go figure! (How would you say that in Italian by the way?) What dictionary are you referring to? As you mention it, where is a good place to find the "standard rules" for avere vs essere? Ta

July 10, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/f.formica
Mod
  • 2175

I'm not sure what I'd choose, actually. I checked on http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/vivere/; as for rules, a search on google turned up whole books :O However on http://www.joyfulit.it/2012/01/auxiliary-verbs-in-italian/ there is a short enough explanation of the rules I was referring to: basically it's always avere with transitive verbs and always essere with reflexive verbs (which can't be the case for vivere). It doesn't address those who accept both like vivere and piovere, or the usage of venire as passive auxiliary, but it gives a good enough overview.

July 10, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Omazie

That's fab. Thank you!

July 10, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Intransive= essere Transitive=avere

September 11, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zenzero_66

why is 'vivere' used in this case and not 'abitare'? To me it makes more sense to say that they had habituated the same place rather than that they were not dead.

February 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

I think they are living with each other rather than inhabiting a place, that's the way it reads to me anyway

February 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

Have never heard the verb: habituated; I'd say 'inhabited'.

May 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valerieheath

Habituate = become accustomed to, relate it to habit. Habitate = to live "there". Inhabit = to live in the place.

December 15, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Correct. Although I'd add that "habitate" isn't really a word. It's an attempt to make a verb from the noun "habitation". In any case, "inhabit" is the correct translation of "abitare", and "habituated" makes no sense in this sentence.

December 15, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valerieheath

thanks nerevarine1138. I was replying to Zenzero_66. Habituate does not make sense because it is translated as "become accustomed to." Exactly my point. Inhabit, would of course be the word of choice regarding "living there".

December 16, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sallygypsy

why is they used to live together unacceptable?

July 28, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

it would be the imperfect tense, vivevano I think

March 8, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vrait

That's not the same tense.

March 8, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GastonDorren

Even if vissuto takes 'essere' rather than 'avere', why is the translation 'they lived' rather than 'they had lived'? Doesn't make sense to me.

October 19, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

on my page the translation is they had lived, as you say, trapassato prossimo

October 20, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GastonDorren

Ah, good. Let's assume it's a one-off glitch then.

October 20, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susanna35

I'm beginning to guess that if there is a direct object, "avere" is the auxiliary verb to use, where, if there is no direct object, "essere" is used.

June 9, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

That's actually not the case. The rules governing when to use "avere" vs. "essere" for present/past perfect are a little vague, so it's usually just best to memorize the verbs that use "essere". But it has nothing to do with having a direct object. You can go to a place (making it the direct object), but you would still say "sono andato" when talking about it in the present perfect.

June 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

nerevarine1138: That's incorrect. Going to a place doesn't make that place a direct object. "The Dutch bought Manhattan Island" would make Manhattan Island a direct object, because it completes the meaning of the verb 'to buy" -- One buys something and that something is a direct object. "The Dutch sailed to Manhattan Island" on the other hand does not include a direct object; Manhattan Island is the object of a preposition. The same's true of most languages as far as direct objects vs objects of prepositions are concerned. They are not synonymous. The verb 'andare" (to go) can't take a direct object because you can not 'go anything' like you can buy, eat, sell, build, etc something. It's an intransitive verb!

June 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Germanlehrersu, I agree, nevarine is mistaken. Perhaps some confusion with direct objects and indirect objects. We are all here to learn and we all make mistakes. Let's try and keep it polite and kind. Capitalised shouting is not pleasant. This is one of the few forums (fora) where there is virtually no rudeness. Thank you for your correct facts. They are helpful

June 25, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

confusedbeetle: On this one you were not at all confused, I shouldn't have responded to nevarine in such a blunt and rude manner and thank you for calling me (softly) out on that. I've since edited my comments.

June 25, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

germanlehrerlsu, that was lovely thank you

June 25, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WVJoy

One of the reasons I like Duolingo is the lack of rancor. Your comments above are nicely put. I do like Germanlehrersu's command of grammar and understanding languages. The bluntness I attribute to being a grammarian ;-}

September 26, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Susanna you are right. There are verbs that can take avere and essere. When transitive (takes an object) use avere and intransitive takes essere. Reflexives always take essere, plus all the other verbs like coming and going, states of being and many more. The rules are pretty clear and ok once you gets used to them

June 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susanna35

Thanks! I keep thinking that there will come a time - and I've actually experienced that once, although I can't remember what it was in regard to - that a light will come on (figuratively speaking) and I will think, "Aha! So that's the way that works!" Not necessarily in this specific case, but in any number of situations. That's the way it worked with me, too, when I was learning to program computers.

June 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chrismakem

They lived, they had lived together surely is the same thing?

November 30, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Maybe, but subtly maybe not. As always it really needs to be seen in context which is a luxury we dont have. There are a few pitfalls in the use of past tenses, passato prossimo, imperfetto etc. this is technically trapassato prossimo which in English is the Pluperfect which requires "had" if we are to translate it literally, although I agree in English we may have translated it as simple past. It does put it slightly one step more in the past

November 30, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

Chrismakem: No. "they had lived..." represents a time in the past before some other event happened. It's the 'past perfect' not the simple past. Many natives don't distinguish past tenses strictly but to be precise there is a difference. E.g. "They lived in Italy for 2 years before they left" should actually be "They had lived in Italy for 2 years, before they left" because 'living there' and 'leaving' occurred at different times, one before the other, not simultaneously.

November 30, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

I agree, we also need to be careful about grammar terms as UK and US use different terms.For example US past perfect = UK Pluperfect. I learned the hard way as many of my books are American and I am English. My solution has been to try and use the Italian terms whenever I remember. We are somewhat sloppy in English as you say Germanlehrerlsu. I do think this is one of the factors that make our translations in accurate. If we we more precise about our own past tenses the Italian one would be a whole lot easier. Maybe Duo will improve our native grammar!

November 30, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

I agree too and thought your previous explanation was 'spot on'. I'm retired now but when I used to teach German verbs I'd always preface my remarks by telling my students that verbs were going to make some of them very tense and put them in a bad mood. When I started to introduce the 'imperfect tense' one student quite seriously asked me why, if it was 'imperfect' were we bothering with it. And when talking about the 'perfect' tense I'd tell them 'that's its name, and that's our goal." Apologies for the anecdotes -- it's what us old folks do.

November 30, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

I like it! I am an old one also

November 30, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ricardo598824

how would one say "They were living together"

February 12, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Vivevano insieme.

February 12, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valm86

Why not "they were living together"?

September 18, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

That would be "Vivevano insieme." This form ("avere/essere + participio passato") translates to "had [verb]".

September 18, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/laurylau

Loro avevano vissuto insieme

October 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

laurylau: No, 'vivere' uses 'essere' as its auxiliary, not 'avere'.

October 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Giusi170827

How would I say then 'I lived in Florence for 3 months"?

October 31, 2017
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