"In Éirinn, itear bairín breac ar Oíche Shamhna."

Translation:In Ireland, barmbrack is eaten on Hallowe'en.

3 years ago

25 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/DiarmuidOS

"Barnbrack" is the only name I've ever head Bairín Breac called in my life.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/becky3086
becky3086
  • 20
  • 15
  • 9
  • 8
  • 5
  • 4

I have never even heard of it and can't spell it even in English when it comes up.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/moloughl
moloughl
  • 24
  • 15
  • 460

at Hallowe'en is rejected even though it seems more natural to me.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Seosamh1875

Yes, at Halloween is the normal way to say it in Ireland. I have never heard on Halloween in my life

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mathsft

I think "bairín breac" untranslated ought to be accepted, "barmbrack" sounds so wrong to me.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/maitiuocoimin

"Barnbrack" is not a typo.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1540

Dinneen’s dictionary agreed with you, defining bairghean breac (the older spelling of bairín breac ) as

“barnbrack,” or “barmbrack,” the currant cake used on Hallow Eve, etc.

The EID only has an entry for “barmbrack”, and the FGB only gives the spelling “barmbrack” in its entry for bairín. Neither spelling is currently present in the NEID.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DiarmuidOS

Also, just as a question, how do you say 'Halloween night' as Gaeilge?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1540

Since oíche is both the nominative form and the genitive form of the word, perhaps oíche Oíche Shamhna ?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/rjcrjc7313

i think that would just be just redundant. Oíche Shamhna already means the night of Samhain it would be like asking "how to say the day of Christmas Day?"

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/goldberrygirl
goldberrygirl
  • 12
  • 12
  • 8
  • 6
  • 6
  • 3
  • 2

Bairin breac literally means "speckled loaf" because of all the raisins sprinkled through it! :)

Looking up pictures of this makes me want to make it...

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/soundmanfrank

'At' is the usual expression. More of these translation 'nit picks'. Irish Duolingo could do with an overhaul. Poor when compared to the Duolingo French and Italian modules.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SeanMeaneyPL
SeanMeaneyPL
  • 23
  • 23
  • 20
  • 17
  • 11
  • 10
  • 10
  • 8
  • 7
  • 7
  • 5
  • 5
  • 4
  • 4
  • 3
  • 53

DL needs a look at common nitpicky points. One is the contrast between (largely) US usage on and (largely) British usage at

US: on Christmas, on Thanksgiving, on Easter, on Hallowe'en Br: at Christmas, at Thanksgiving, at Easter, at Hallowe'en.

It is irritating to have the perfectly natural They eat barmbrack in Ireland at Hallowe'en rejected. Even other sequencing (In Ireland etc) is rejected if one retains at. Infuriating.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

Do you say "on your birthday" or "at your birthday"?

The use of "on" for an event is hardly a US usage (and "at Christmas", "at Thanksgiving" and "at Easter" are perfectly normal constructions in the US) - your problem is that you have grown used to thinking of Halloween as a "season", rather than an event, but the oíche in Oíche Samhna makes ar the more natural preposition, just as it is perfectly natural to say "on Christmas Day" and "on Easter Sunday" even in British English.

The key point is that, unless it is absolutely unreasonable (ar scoil), your best bet is to stick with the literal translation of the preposition - translate ag as "at", ar as "on" and sa as "in". The purpose of Irish to English exercises isn't to demonstrate your ability to create perfect idiomatic English, it's to demonstrate that you understand idiomatic Irish. And just as it's reasonable to say "we always had fireworks and a bonfire on Guy Fawkes", it's reasonable to say barmbrack is eaten on Hallowe'en.

(That still leaves open the question of whether you should ever translate "at Halloween" as ag Oíche Shamna, but that's a discussion for another day).

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SeanMeaneyPL
SeanMeaneyPL
  • 23
  • 23
  • 20
  • 17
  • 11
  • 10
  • 10
  • 8
  • 7
  • 7
  • 5
  • 5
  • 4
  • 4
  • 3
  • 53

I did a steaw poll on this one amongst my friends and acquaintaces. Interestingky, the younger ones slightly favoured "on" but the older ones predominantly "at". That led to a discussion of " at or in a city" which, interstingly, showed that mt older friends prefer at Oxford or at Brighton but in London or in Paris. It seems size matters

I take yoyr poinr about seasons, but I can't see me ever saying on Christmas. However, if Irish says Ar Oíche Shamhna then that is what's critical here. GRMMA.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

I wouldn't normally say "on Christmas" either, but I would always say "on Christmas Day", and the "Day" could sometimes be dropped. Growing up, Halloween was much more focused on the night itself, so "on Halloween" doesn't seem wrong to me - "we dressed up on Halloween", "we bobbed for apples on Halloween", "our neighbor always had fireworks on Halloween" (the "night" is assumed in those examples) but of course when it came to brack, which would have been available in the shops for a week or two before and after the day itself, I would say "we ate brack at Halloween"!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SeanMeaneyPL
SeanMeaneyPL
  • 23
  • 23
  • 20
  • 17
  • 11
  • 10
  • 10
  • 8
  • 7
  • 7
  • 5
  • 5
  • 4
  • 4
  • 3
  • 53

Agus ana-bhlasta atá sé

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/moloughl
moloughl
  • 24
  • 15
  • 460

The problem with your advice is that there is not a single literal translation of Irish prepositions to English. "Ar" doesn't only mean "on" nor does "ag" only mean "at". Irish prepositions are quite fluid and what they mean varies as to the context in which they are used.

Ar can mean any of "on", "in", "at", "within", "of", "by", "for", "to", "with".

  • ar talamh = on earth
  • ar neamh = in heaven
  • ar mo ghualainn = at my shoulder
  • ar amharc = within sight
  • ar do chosúlacht = of your appearance
  • céim ar chéim = step by step
  • ar mhaithe leis féin = for his own sake
  • ar deis = to the right
  • ar mhórán saothair = with great effort

In relation to time there is:

  • ar maidin = in the morning
  • ar a sé a chlog = at six o'clock

For a fuller account of the meanings of ar see here

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

I didn't say that you should always translate ar as on. I said that "unless it is absolutely unreasonable (ar scoil), your best bet is to stick with the literal translation of the preposition" - in other words where "on" is reasonable, and you wouldn't be completely thrown by seeing "on" in the English sentence, leave it as "on". Even people who don't say "we wear costumes on Halloween" probably wouldn't quibble if they came across that phrase in a blog post or a magazine article, so in that case, it isn't necessary to change it to "at". On the other hand, if you read "I walk on school every day" you'd know that something was wrong, - it's not reasonable to translate ar as "on" in that situation.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/moloughl
moloughl
  • 24
  • 15
  • 460

You seem to be missing the point about the literal translation. You did say that unless it is absolutely unreasonable it is best to stick with the literal translation of the preposition and you go on to indicate that the literal translation of ar is "on". But this is not so, there is not one single literal translation of ar as I have shown above. We may have been taught at school when starting to learn Irish that ar meant "on" but that was only to keep things simple for beginners.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

Whatever. When people start asking "why can't I translate ar an fhuinneog as "by the window"?" I'll worry about coming up with a more nuanced suggestion.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/maitiuocoimin

This is all irrelevant, 'ag' nor 'ar' are correct. In Irish, Oíche Shamhna by itself suffices.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SeanMeaneyPL
SeanMeaneyPL
  • 23
  • 23
  • 20
  • 17
  • 11
  • 10
  • 10
  • 8
  • 7
  • 7
  • 5
  • 5
  • 4
  • 4
  • 3
  • 53

I agree. This isn't a discussion about English, or it shouldn't be. If I translate ar as at, where's the problem? It's reasonable. DL should accept it.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

But you want Duoling to make allowances for your English, instead of you making allowances for Duolingo's English.

It would be one thing if you actually failed when you are marked wrong, but you don't, you just get a couple of extra questions to answer.

1 year ago
Learn Irish in just 5 minutes a day. For free.