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  5. "Is é Baile Átha Cliath príom…

"Is é Baile Átha Cliath príomhchathair Phoblacht na hÉireann."

Translation:Dublin is the capital city of the Republic of Ireland.

December 7, 2014

48 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mpbell

I wrote "Dublin is capital of the Republic of Ireland," and I was told I need "the" before "capital." An bhfuil sin fíor? Cén fáth?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Raftus

It's not correct English, that's why. Duo always needs translations to be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mpbell

I don't think the "the" is required in English, but I don't know what to Google about that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Raftus

"London is capital of England." "Paris is capital of France." Do those sound correct to you?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mpbell

I must admit that they do. You can find Internet search results with such a wording.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulianKiel1

Yes, in English we don’t use the definite article with names (He is Sean) and sometimes with unique job titles (He is Chairman of the Board) and sometimes when specifying other unique roles (Paris is capital of France). My impression is that the rules governing which nouns have artices in “príomhchathair Phoblacht na hÉireann” are different - more like: “a noun can be specified by a genitive or an article (an, na etc) but not both”. But I still have not worked out why we usually see Éire without the definite article but Éireann with the definite article na.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

Mar tá an t-alt sa bhfrása príomhchathair Phoblacht na hÉireann


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Helena683679

I wrote 'the capital' and was marked wrong for not saying capital city. I only left it out because previous questions translated príomhchathair as capital and not capital city


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ueueueueue

Why is it "Phoblacht" here? If "príomhchathair Phoblacht na hÉireann" means "capital of the republic of ireland", is "phoblacht" in the genitive? But if so, I gather it would be "poblachta". So, why the lenited nominative form?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

This is an example which contains a noun that is “nominative in form, genitive in function”. The reason for it in this case is that Irish doesn’t express successive nouns in genitive form when the second noun is definite; only the second noun in such a genitive “chain” takes the genitive form (e.g. Éireann rather than Éire in this case). Despite the nominative form of Poblacht, because of its genitive function, it becomes lenited as genitive nouns normally would, as you’d observed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ueueueueue

I see - thanks for the explanation!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RozieToez

So, if na only gets used once in genitive constructions, no matter how many times "the" would be used in English, how would you say "he is the captain of a ship" vs. "he is the captain of the ship"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sp1jk3z

Or "The Lord of the rings" vs "A lord of the rings" vs "The lord of rings"

Good question. Enquiring minds wish to know!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling
  • “The lord of the rings” = Tiarna na bhfáinní — genitive;
  • “A lord of the rings” = Tiarna de na fáinní — partitive dative;
  • “The lord of rings” = An tiarna fáinní — genitive.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulianKiel1

In English the rule is that a noun may never be qualified by more than one “determiner”. A “determiner” includes

  • an article or possessive pronoun - “the cat”, “my cat”, “a cat” but NOT “a my cat” or “the your cat” or “any my cat”
  • a genitive ending in -s

In “the ship’s captain”, the word “ship” has the sole determiner “the” and the word “captain” has the sole determiner “ship’s”.

The difference in Irish is that the genitive usually or always comes after its noun, and so superficially looks more like the “of” genitive in English, which in English in NOT a determiner: “THE captain of the ship”.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling
  • “He is the captain of a ship” = Is é an captaen loinge é — genitive;
  • “He is the captain of the ship” = Is é captaen na loinge é — genitive.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

Is captaen loinge é - "He is a ship's captain"/"He is the captain of a ship"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/patrickwilmes

Why is the e fada where it is in the sentence? Usually the e fada or i fada would be later. Like in sentences, Is "something" e fada. I'm confused


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

When the subject of an identificational copular statement is a proper name (e.g. Baile Átha Cliath in this sentence), then the sentence order is Is + subcomplement + subject + complement. The é is this sentence’s subcomplement, and it provides separation between is and the proper name, since is isn’t allowed to come directly before a definite noun (such as a proper name).

Note that the é should be í, since príomhchathair is feminine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jileha
  • 1264

Question re word order: Baile Átha Cliath comes before príomhchathair Phoblacht na hÉireann because proper names come before definite nouns, correct?

You said it should be í, but doesn’t the é refer to the subject, Baile Átha Cliath and is therefore correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

No, this word order has a subcomplement rather than a subsubject, so it should have been í rather than é because it refers to the complement príomhchathair Phoblacht na hÉireann.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichardMik2

Why does é BAC come before what it is? I thought for copular statements what it is comes first followed by who is what. Like is dochtúir mé= i am a doctor, so shouldn't this sentence = the capital city of the republic of ireland is dublin, not the other way around?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

Because BÁC is a definite phrase. In copular structures, you need a pronoun before definite phrases. Also, I feel it should be í instead, since príomhchathair is feminine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichardMik2

No i'm not talking about the pronoun i understand why it is there and that it should be there. What i'm talking about is that it says: Is é BÁC príomhchathair PnÉ = Dublin is the capital city of the RoI, but when compare it with a simpler (is dochtúir é an fear - the man is a doctor) it is set up the same. By the simpler, the structure is: Is "y" é/í "x" = x is y, but by the complex, the structure is: Is é/í "x" "y" = x is y. And that's where I'm confused, because given the structure by this simpler i would then say this sentence translates to: the capital city of the RoI is Dublin, not the other way around.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

Because Dublim is a definite noun. It's more analogous to sentences like Is é Enda Kenny Taoiseach na hÉireann than to Is dochtúir é an fear, which has an indefinite and a definite.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichardMik2

Oh. Ok, so sentences with definite phrases NOT containing a definite article should be written as such. grma


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

Yep. I suggest you look here for a more in depth explanation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichardMik2

Awesome! Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MicheleTreCaffe

...and why not the final 'é' (or, rather, 'í') ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

The "final é" is the pronoun in the English sentence: Is é an múinteoir é - "He is the teacher"

There is no pronoun in "Dublin is the capital city of the Republic of Ireland".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Houtje2

why is there no AN phoblacht.... . I the answer it was wrong not to mention THE republic. tsssssjjjjj!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

The definite article in a genitive phrase applies to the whole phrase.

Poblacht na hÉireann - "The Republic of Ireland"
Uachtarán na hÉireann - "The President of Ireland"
muintir na hÉireann - "the people of Ireland"
bhuail me leis i lár na hoíche - "I met him in the middle of the night"
shroich siad barr an chnoic - "they reached the top of the hill"
stad sé ag doras na scoile - "he stopped at the door of the school"
ní maith leis blas an ime - "he doesn't like the taste of the butter"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Houtje2

I see, thanks. Next time I will be a good girl typing THE .... ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anaphasiy

Shouldn't the third example have been mhuintir na hÉireann since Phoblacht na hÉireann has its first word lenited?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

It's the other way around - I should have written the first line as Poblacht na hÉireann (I have edited the post to remove that error).

Poblacht is lenited in príomhchathair Phoblacht na hÉireann because it is forced into the "functional genitive" by the preceding noun príomhchathair. The "functional genitive" takes the form of the nominative, but is lenited.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anaphasiy

Tuigim anois. GRMA.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZanninaMargariti

Can you explain me this sentence please. I know what does it mean but I don't understand the forms of the nouns etc


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/torowan

I think read the thread started by RichardMik2 in this post, should help.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rostellan

I decided to try 'The Irish Republic' instead of 'the Republic of Ireland' to see if it was acceptable to Duo. It wasn't. Can someone please tell me what 'The Irish Republic' would be in Irish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

Unless you're referring to Daon-Phoblacht Chorcaí (The People's Republic of Cork), "the Irish Republic" ceased to exist in 1922. The legal description of the State has been "The Republic of Ireland" since 1948.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gav103

Níl sé fíor. Is é Corcaigh an fíor príomhchathair! ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JustusRobi3

I wrote, "Dublin is the capital of Republic of Ireland." This should be accepted. As for omitting "the" before "Republic of Ireland", i tend to omit "the" even before "Isle of Man".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

No, it shouldn't be accepted. That "the" isn't optional in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nrith

Omitting the “the” isn’t correct in either case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Holbytler

The Irish Republic is also fine as is just Ireland.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanielNieciecki

Now that certainly opens a political can of worms ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seamus747

Technically, the Irish (Gaelic) for that would be different. Also there are political nuances. Many in the Republican movement would contend that the 26-county state called "The Republic of Ireland" is a different animal to an or the Irish Republic. Also in international law no entity bearing the name "The Irish Republic" exists or is recognised. It is just a shorthand in the vernacular.

And Ireland and both the terms previously discussed are most definitely not interchangeable. Ireland refers to the whole island and to all-Ireland entities such as rugby and cricket teams and churches. That is quite distinct from the "Republic of Ireland".

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