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  5. "A siblíní agus a shiblíní."

"A siblíní agus a shiblíní."

Translation:Her siblings and his siblings.

December 8, 2014

48 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/georgeoftruth

Good exercise. I always mix up which possessive gets a lenition.

So "his" gets it when the word starts with a consonant, but it doesn't if the word starts with a vowel? Vice versa for "her"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Yes, a (“his”) lenites the governed noun, and a (“her”) prefixes an H to a governed noun beginning with a vowel. Note that the latter case is not an example of lenition, since only certain consonants can be lenited.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EatJinsSug

I thought that s' dont get seimhius?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AntAlbanach

Finally lenition and eclipsis start to make sense!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Magh-Roith

would their siblings be " a siblíní "?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

That's the correct lention pattern


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/teaclud

I thought "a", their, caused uru on the next word. If so, why would "their siblings" be " siblini"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

What letter do you use as an urú for s?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/teaclud

after a preposition if a word begins with "s" and is feminine a "t" is added before the "s" unless the word begins with sc sf sm sp or st


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

Feminine nouns that start with s get a t-prefix after an whether there's a preposition present or not - a t-prefix is not an urú.

Tá an tseirbhís go maith anseo
An tsiúlóid
Bhí an tsochraid san eaglais inné agus bhí sé ag cur báistí
Tá an tSualainn i dtuaisceart na hEorpa

(except words that start with sc-, sf-, sm-, sp-, st- or sv-).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

I think that's only after a preposition + the article: leis an tsopóg Initial mutations after just a preposition depend upon the preposition.

In Ulster, that 't' ('t-' if the word starts with a vowel) is prefixed to all singular nouns: ag an tsorcas, ag an tsiúr


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nwshredder2406

Ugh I'm confused. I understand lenition for genitive cases, but how the heck do you tell the difference between that and lenition after vowels?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

I'm not sure what you're asking.

There's only one genitive case in Irish, and the only genitive there is that masculine singular nouns are lenited after the definite article. Did you mean something else?

There are no vowels that cause lenition just because they're vowels.

The three 'a''s above are the Irish words for his, her, and their. a bhád (his boat - lenited), a bád (her boat - nothing happens, but if the noun had started with a vowel, it would add an h to the beginning: a hathair), a mbád (their boat - eclipsed)

I have a feeling that this isn't what you were asking, though. If you give some examples, I'll try again to answer your question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SilverPill

Why does it sound like she's saying "a hiblíní"? A mistake? A rule I missed? A peculiarity in the Connacht dialect or Irish in general?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

Because sh sounds like h


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Isabel334210

So if the word starts with a constant her doesnt get a séimhiú (h) but his does and if the word strarts with a vowel her starts with h and his doesnt?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

Typo: consonant (bcdfglmnprst) Yes, and if you want to say 'their [something],' you eclipse (put urú on) the first letter of the next word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xX_Abby_Xx1

this is ridiculous. i wasnt sure which one was her and which one was his because i clicked on both 'a' s and they both said 'her his their' i put his siblings and her siblings, but apparently its not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

a + séimhiú on the next word = his: a bhád, his boat

a + h on the next word if it starts with a vowel = her: a bád, her boat

a + urú on the next word = their: a mbád, their boat


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrankW.Kir

A Cait48, a chara! a + séimhiú = his. a + (his) bád = a bhád = his boat, male possessor, good example, very helpful, GRMA!

a + h before a vowel = ( her? ) unhelpful as the example "bád" does not begin with a vowel thus it does not illustrate the point of when to add a 'haitch' (or 'an h') to indicate gender of possessor. Presumably, though not stated outright, "a" preceding a noun without séimhiú indicates feminine possessor?

a + urú on following word = their. a + (their) bád = a mbád = their boat. another good example, again GRMA! I've written all of this out in longhand. Now all I have to do is to remember it! Slan, Proinsias Ó Ciardhubháin.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

"a + h before a vowel = ( her? ) unhelpful as the example "bád" does not begin with a vowel thus it does not illustrate the point of when to add a 'haitch' (or 'an h') to indicate gender of possessor." You add an h to any noun that starts with a vowel (a e i o u) when you use 'a' meaning 'her.' I left it up to the reader to pick one. If none came to mind, here's one: a haintín (her aunt). Also, there's no need to ask "her?" because 'her' is already written at the end of the line for you.

"Presumably, though not stated outright, "a" preceding a noun without séimhiú indicates feminine possessor?" Nope. Not stated because that's not what happens. There are plenty of words that start with a consonant that cannot be lenited ( = no séimhiú) or eclipsed ( = no urú) -- 'nathair' (snake) for example. 'A nathair' could mean 'his snake,' 'her snake,' or 'their snake.' In such cases, you need to rely on context or use 's'aige' (his), 's'aici' (her), or 's'acu' (their) after the noun. Ex: an nathair s'aici = her snake.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

You add an h to any feminine noun that starts with a vowel (a e i o u).

You prefix an h to any noun, feminine or masculine, that starts with a vowel (a e i o u), after the 3rd person singular feminine possessive adjective adjective a ("her").

an t-úll - masculine
a úll - "his apple"
a húll - "her apple"
an ubh - feminine
a ubh - "his egg"
a hubh - "her egg"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

Yikes! You're completely correct! Thank you -- I must get more sleep! Off to fix that now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/B4nj4x

How come we get his apple and her apple with the seimhiu on her like "a húll" = Her apple and now it seems to work the other way round where he gets the seimhiu like "a shiblíní"= His siblings?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

There is no séimhiú in a húll.

You can only put a séimhiú on a consonant. The h prefix on a word that starts with a vowel is not a séimhiú.

The feminine 3rd person singular possessive adjective a puts a h prefix on words that start with a vowel.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/B4nj4x

Oh right sorry, I knew that. I was just confusing myself because H's. Point is I thought that an additional "h" was typically applied to the feminine, séimhiú or otherwise.

Thanks for clarifying


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VincentKel680376

Hard to distinguish between siblíní and shiblíní the way both are spoken.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

Only if you have no idea how sh is pronounced in Irish.

It's very clear from the audio for this exercise that there is absolutely no way you could confuse siblíní with shiblíní - they start with totally different sounds.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeirdreBan1

Thats exactly as i translated the sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

Yes, and her = a and their = a

Did you have a question?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoaoDSouza

Agus a tsiblíní


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

What would this mean?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

Oh, I see. No, in standard Irish, urú does nothing to a word starting with 's.' A sibliní = their siblings


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoaoDSouza

I just checked. It's not urú. It is another unnamed mutation that only happens to feminine nouns after the definite article which is preceded by a preposition.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

It's called a t-prothesis, and It's a little more complicated than that. Look here http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/thnd.htm#t for more info


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoaoDSouza

The last time I checked, it affricated the s.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

Interesting. Would you mind telling me where you checked this and whether your source was describing a particular dialect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Skitt0

Problematic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

Do you have a question? If you just don't like the word 'siblín,' I must say that I agree with you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

What Irish word would you prefer to use, or do you think that Irish doesn't need a word for "sibling"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

It would be handy to have a nice simple word, but native Gaeltacht speakers have told me that 'deartháireacha agus deirfiúracha' is what they say, so it's what I say.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IainMcNulty

And that's what we say in Hiberno-English too


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

Did you ask them how to say "sibling rivalry"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

LOL, that has never come up!

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