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"Kakorna är bakade och kaffet står bordet."

Translation:The cookies are baked and the coffee is on the table.

December 9, 2014

31 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/igulineue

why is bakat wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelenCarlsson

You have to use the plural form, since we are talking about several cookies:
brödet är bakat
kakan är bakad
kakorna/bröden är bakade


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/harharharhar

Why is the plural bakade and not bakada? According to the introductory notes the ending would be -d/-t/-da. Under which conditions does the plural form change from -da to -de?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelenCarlsson

The perfect participle is slightly complicated and you can read more about it here http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/theswedishteacher/tag/perfekt-particip/.

The endings depend on the verb conjugation group and "baka" belongs to group 1 (the -ar verbs).

Jag bakar - jag bakade - jag har bakat (I bake - I baked - I have baked)

and, for the participles:

Bullen är bakad - Pepparkakshuset är bakat - Bullarna är bakade (The bun is baked - The gingerbread house is baked - The buns are baked).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

I think that was the point, actually. According to the lesson notes on passive participles (https://www.duolingo.com/skill/sv/Passive-Participles), it should end in -da, which it clearly doesn't. I'll message Arnauti about it.

Edit: on second hand, turns out I can't read! :D The lesson notes actually first say something else, which makes them correct. My bad!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Austin211825

Ah right, I get it now, it took me a while, so the plural gets the usual past participle and because baka is an -er verb (unlike bygga in the notes) so that makes it bakade. For singular nouns its either bakat or bakad depending on ett or en nouns, is that right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Disclaimer: I'm out sick and sleep-deprived - but that sounds about right, Austin. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OwainLlyfr

You could use "Kakorna har bakat" (The cookies have baked (on their own)) if you want to bring a bit of laughter to the Swedes aroun you, as it would be a grammatically correct sentence but so absurd that it would never happen... :-) Cookies usually don't bake, do they? :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

baka is either transitive or requires a prepositional phrase, so it's not actually grammatically correct. But I agree it does sound absurd. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bwiny78

This isn't a complaint - more a cry from the heart! As a beginner with a pretty sketchy understanding of the formal terms and concepts used in grammar, I am finding this whole lesson so difficult! I thought participles were pretty baffling, but this has nearly finished me off. I am, of course, deeply appreciative of all the time and effort that various lovely people have put into providing us with a free language education; I guess I just need to watch more YouTube videos :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

That's very understandable. And I appreciate that you let us know. Could you please clarify what you find the most problematic? I'd love to help.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bwiny78

That's really kind of you! Thank you.

I think it would help some learners if grammatical ideas and concepts were broken down and explained really simply. For example, the notes for the passive lesson don't actually explain what the passive voice is.

After a lot of Googling and watching YouTube videos, I'm getting there, but it's clear that the passive voice is a concept that lots of learners struggle with. I mean, to be truthful, I still don't really get how 'The cake is baked' is a passive sentence blush

Ideally - and this is pie in the sky stuff - it would be great if every sentence had grammar notes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

I agree with you. I've been entertaining the notion of running an unofficial course companion in parallel, so that I can attach notes or concepts to each sentence and skill. However, I have nothing more than plans at the moment. Unfortunately, I am limited to what Duolingo as a platform has to offer.

As for the passive, the basic idea is that something can either be done by someone or to someone. If it's by, then it's active: "I'm eating". If it's to, then it's passive: "I'm being eaten". In the latter case, you're not doing the actual eating, so you're being in the passive.

That goes for the cookies as well - they're not just baking on their own: they're being baked by something else (like an oven, or the heat) or someone else (like a baker). Obviously, the distinction is silly in this case - and we say that the eggs are frying (active) rather than being fried (passive), for instance. But the grammatical implications of whatever is the most idiomatic option can be non-trivial in some languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlennaJo

Now I am ready for a coffee break! :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sotnosen93

Just "fika", unless you meant it to be a present-tense verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matias426045

Can it be "The cookies have been baked"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelenCarlsson

No, that would be "Kakorna har blivit bakade" eller "Kakorna har bakats".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hottiejan

Why one should use "är" here? But not needed in "Byggnaden byggs av min pappa."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Swedish can say either bakades or är bakade, where the former is a classic passive and the latter uses a participle. But in this case, the point of the sentence is that the cookies are in a state of having been baked already, so they're finished, and so you wouldn't use the passive.

  • kakorna bakades = the point is the baking
  • kakorna är bakade = the point is that they have been baked

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Emmi373612

Have I been wrong all these years thinking kaka is cake? Or is it both?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Depends on the cake, but cake is usually tårta.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZackOhlin

Why is it that in one sentence, "Kakan är bakad" means "the cookie is being baked", but in this one, "Kakorna är bakade" means "the cookies are baked"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

I think you may be misremembering. The default translation for the exercise Kakan är bakad av min man is "The cake was baked by my husband".

  • är bakad means state: är indicates that it currently exists, as it is the present tense, and bakad means that it in the state of having been baked previously
  • bakas means action, and hence translates best as e.g. "is (being) baked"

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pselkirk

Having gotten these two sentences in succession, I noticed that the cake was baked, while the cookies are baked. In English "the cake is baked" sounds fine, until you add the attribution "by my husband", so we put that one in the past tense. In both cases, the baking is finished, the results are here in front us, so let's eat. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julian_bush

Cakes or biscuits are the norm in English speaking countries.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sotnosen93

I can't speak for "cake", but "biscuits" is accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SonjaTrgov

This grammar lesson is taught on the intermediate level CFER B.1.2. While being a fan and a diligent practitioner of Duolingo the app has its flaws especially if you are a beginner. The fact that I’ve been consistently being learning Swedish in a language school for two years helps me with the lessons on Duo. For me they are just a fun memory game. After you pass couple of basic lessons on the beginning it is hard to continue and to actually learn something without the knowledge of the basic and intermediate principles of Swedish grammar. I know that the app has its own mini grammar, however I found this to be a bit to vague. I understand as well that Swedish classes are not available or affordable for everyone. The bottom line is that to actually gain a profit from Duo one must practice or learn Swedish (or any language whatsoever) outside the app too. To be able to really master all of the exercises one must be (properly) acquainted with grammar. For all of the guys who can afford Swedish classes and are really eager to learn the language I would highly recommend to start them. For others there are a lot of great videos that explain Swedish grammar on YouTube. Additionally one can download Rivstart’s textbooks for A1-A2 and B1-B2 on library genesis. Don’t hate me for this but Duo is just a cool tool to practices what you already know or at least have a basic knowledge of it. If you really want to learn the language you’ve got to do it on a more traditional way. Ha det så bra och lycka till!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Just to be clear, the course wasn't built with CEFR in mind at the beginning. The next tree will have a lot more of that, although we don't currently aim to explicitly align it with the CEFR.

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