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  5. "Is leatsa an portán."

"Is leatsa an portán."

Translation:The crab is yours.

December 11, 2014

74 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/michelleplus8

What is this -sa being added to words? I read that it's for emphasis? What does it mean, and did I miss some explanation of it? I spent forever trying to figure out which pronoun was sa before I realized it was leat + sa.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

Scroll down to the bottom of this link http://www.bitesizeirishgaelic.com/blog/i-me-he-him/ for the emphatic forms of le+ pronoun.

In general, though, be prepared to see a -se (mise), -sa (tusa), etc (complete list:http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/person.htm) to put emphasis on a pronoun instead of saying the word more forcefully. The preposition + pronoun construction often has special forms, too, like liomsa and leatsa.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Desiree29977

"Tusa" just makes me think of JarJar...the good news, at least, is that I won't forget it now


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/michelleplus8

Also, is, "Is leat an portán" actually wrong, or just not emphatic?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

I don't think it's wrong, per se, but I can't come up with a situation where you would want to tell someone that the crab is theirs without some sort of emphasis. I have the same problem with a lot of sentences on Duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dim-ond-dysgwr

I think it's leatsa because of the implied contrast: i.e. it's yours (not mine / not hers / etc.). Think of the "tune" of an English sentence like "The lobster's mine but the crab's yours"; how it emphasizes the last word. This is done in Irish with the addition of an "emphatic particle", -sa.

I'd say that is leat is more likely to be used where the emphasis is more on the "what" than the "whose" -- especially in a list. The only example I can think of for the moment is from the Bible, Psalm 47: The day is thine, the night also is thine = Is leat an lá agus is leat an oíche.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaddyIreland15

This was such a wonderful explanation!!! Thank you for the link, Cait48!

http://www.bitesizeirishgaelic.com/blog/i-me-he-him/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kelan585200

Leatsa is a word in its own right meaning yours liomsa would be mine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1447

leatsa isn't a word in it's own right, it's just an intensified version of leat.

Is leat an portán is grammatically correct as well, but is not normally used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/walgen

is there some association between crabs and ireland


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Yes — the former are eaten in the latter.


[deactivated user]

    Couldn't have said it better!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joshuaburrow

    Paul (who's in the fridge with his wife) probably has a crab.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

    The association is with portach (bog). Portán is there to make you pay more attention so that you don't mix up bog and crab.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J0W3x

    what is a bog?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J0W3x

    Thank you :D !


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bookrabbit

    funnily enough some of my clearest memories of Ireland involve crabs!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
    Mod
    • 1447

    I think the portán exercises are used to contrast with portach, to remind people to pay attention to the whole word, rather than seeing a word that starts with port and assuming that it means "bog".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Conchubhar1987

    No. Absolutely no association! I have found the persistence of crabs in these lessons very strange too!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Timmo

    Irish speaking regions are generally on the west coast. You might have noticed rón and iasc turned up too. Whether this is conscious or not I can't tell you. portán has taught me lots about lenition and eclipsis, I guess that's why it turns up all the time.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andrew_Daley

    is bportán correct here?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

    That depends on the sentence. The sentence I see on the page is Is leatsa an portán In this case, bportán would not be possible, since the article an (the) doesn't change masculine nouns like portán. If you had a sentence where you wanted to say your crab--like Your crab is on the table, you could say do phortán (to one person) or bhur bportán (to two or more people).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/peegemac

    Could this sentence also translate like "It's your crab"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

    No — that would be Is é do phortán é.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/legatrix

    I don't fully understand why "é" occurs twice in your example?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

    An identificational copular statement with a third-person pronoun as the subject can’t have the copula directly adjacent to its complement; the first é is a “subcomplement” that provides that separation. Think of it as approximately “It’s that, your crab.”, with the first é corresponding (non-literally) to “that”.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daithi23

    I don't doubt your grammar but would you use that sentence normally or would native speakers shorten it? It sounds awkward..


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/B-mhongoadh

    I'm not a native speaker, and very far from becoming fluent - but, with due respect, I don't find the phrase awkward- you'll find the rhythm echoed in some dialects ( if that helps) - "it's your crab (so) it is" - " it's your crab, hey." I found this helped me a bit when trying to get my head round some of the constructions and how they might be varied.


    [deactivated user]

      Is é is commonly contracted to so you might hear Sé do phortán é.

      There is an Irish song whose chorus begins Sé mo laoch mo ghile mear.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

      That is the normal structure for an identificational copular statement with a third-person pronoun as the subject, so that’s how I’d use it. I’m not a native Irish speaker, though, so you’ll need to find some to ask to find out if they’d shorten it — my guess is that a native speaker would probably pronounce it as ’Sé do phortán é.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ballygawley

      March 2015 "It is your crab" is accepted as correct. I was certain it would be marked an error, because the "an" / "the" was not included in the accepted translation.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leprechaun61

      Thine was correct English about three or four hundred years ago!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Taurendil

      So can this also be translated as 'you own the crab'? Or is there another way to say that?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

      Yes, it could also be translated as “You own the crab”.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Taurendil

      Go raibh maith agat!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnORiordan

      What is thine? Im a native English speaker and I've never heard it before?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

      It's an archaic second-person singular possessive--in other words, 'your.' In theory, 'thy' was used before consonants and 'thine' before vowels. Shakespeare wrote (in that famously misunderstood line from Hamlet), 'To thine own self be true.'

      Where did this question come from? I find some of Duolingo's sentences unnatural, but not to the extent of using 'thine'!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnORiordan

      It was in the android app. It translated this sentence to "The crab is thne."


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MayteStiles

      Thou, thee, thine, old forms for second person still found in prayers: Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name; Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/morcant7

      Why is crab spelled differently this time


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

      Differently from what?

      Portán is the basic form, the one you would find in a dictionary. Sometimes (like after mo and do) there is a séimhiú on the word, which is then spelled phortán. At other times (like after ár or bhur) there is an urú on the word, which is then spelled bportán.

      Lots more info: http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/lenition.htm and http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/eklipse.htm


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MayteStiles

      It is all explained in the notes we may read at the beginning of each new topic.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyAnn11

      I think portan is a very useful word since I can't wait to go to Ireland and enjoy my favorite meal!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
      Mod
      • 1447

      Note that the crab served in Irish restaurants is likely to be the brown crab, not the blue crab more common in the Eastern and southern US.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeighaRJE

      It told me the correct answer was "the crab is thine" :D but it would accept "yours"


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JasonMakep

      How do we know when to use leatsa or when to use do? Is it because of "an?"

      Is do portan. Is leatsa an portan.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
      Mod
      • 1447

      I think you might mean is é do portán é. (is do phortán doesn't mean anything).

      You can use Is é do X é when the X is something that doesn't actually exist, that you can't actually own - "It's your turn", "it's your fault".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryLea11

      I translated it 'you have the crab.' I understood the sentence exactly, and I'm sure that my translation is colloquially correct. Should I report it as an error, or was my translation too far away from the original grammar?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

      I think that Is leatsa an portán might be better translated as "It's your crab" (cé leis é? Is liomsa é), with the emphasis on your, and I don't see how that would match "you have the crab",

      On the other hand, if you had two people deciding which one of them would get a single crab - one party might concede with "you have the crab" or "the crab is yours", but I think that's really "you can have the crab".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DominicCol12

      I am beginning to get crabby about this !!! ho ho


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/proinsias123

      I think you have the crab would be best translated as Tá an portán agat.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cgunning17

      What does "is" mean


      [deactivated user]

        Is means 'is' and it's pronounced like 'iss' as in 'hiss'. Roughly speaking it links two parts of a sentence.
        It takes the form Is A B where A gives some information about B.
        See http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/is


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J0W3x

        What is the difference between "Your own crab." and "The crab is yours.", for a french speaker those sentence have same meaning and it's kind of confusing.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DominicCol12

        I thought "Is yours the crab?" was an alternative translation as was indicated but there was no question mark so it was a "bum steer" I think


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jimmyjakejohnson

        Why do we us is here instead of tá


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

        Because "mine" and "yours" are pronouns, and we use the copula when we are connecting two nouns or pronouns.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SaraiBarne2

        Why isn't "portán" phortán? Shouldn't it be lenited since it comes after a preposition?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
        Mod
        • 1447

        le is a preposition. leatsa is a prepositional pronoun. The "preposition+an causes elipsis" construction doesn't work with prepositional pronouns.

        Note that in the specific case of le, le + an becomes leis an, but that leis is NOT the prepositional pronoun leis (le+sé). So leis an bportán is preposition+an, not prepositional-pronoun+an.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LukeProcto6

        And you didn't get them from me!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/radgru

        Man,that was easy!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoeHughes7

        I never knew portán was irish for crab


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoeHughes7

        Wait... This app didnt allow me to put "crab" in


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
        Mod
        • 1447

        Then take a screenshot and submit a bug report. There's no point posting about it in the sentence discussion.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lamh-glas

        surely this has to be 'is an portan leatsa' ?!!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

        Why 'surely'? This is the way to say 'The crab is yours,' should you ever need or want to say that. Extra reference for you: https://www.focloir.ie/ga/dictionary/ei/yours Look for 'The money is yours.' Same structure.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lamh-glas

        just seeing yer answer, ok ok i think i got it there


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
        Mod
        • 1447

        Apart from the fact that you can't have a definite article next to the copula is, the preposition le comes immediately after the copula when expressing ownership or possession.

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