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"Even the child is writing letters."

Translation:Till och med barnet skriver brev.

December 13, 2014

29 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarisBoyd

Kan vi inte säger "även barnet skriver brev"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan-Olav

Yes but 'till och med' feels stronger.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arranger01

I tried "ens", it did not work. Is it wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

Yes, you can only use ens in combination with inte. Like not even.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nordSPB

I translated as barnet skriver till och med brev since i thought an adverb goes after the verb and got an error. Could someone please provide wiht an explanation why this usage was wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

The adverb goes in different places depending on what part of the sentence it modifies. Even the child writes letters means everybody is writing letters, even the child. To say this in Swedish, you need to put till och med before barnet. (Даже ребенок пишет письма)

If you say Barnet skriver till och med brev it means The child even writes letters, in this case till och med refers not to the child but to the action of writing letters.

Swedish and English word order are generally pretty similar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

PS the verb is still in second place here, because "Till och med barnet" as the subject counts as one unit of the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vevlira

Thank you for this good explanation! But why does "till och med barnet" act as one unit of the sentence, as you say? Is that a general rule with adverbs in the beginning of the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

It's because adverb + noun form a noun phrase (which answers the question 'who'). You'd get the same general structure if you replaced 'till och med barnet' with one word, like 'någon skriver brev.' In most sentences, adverbs modify the verb, or the whole sentence, and are not part of a noun phrase, and in that case they will be the first constituent of the sentence on their own.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

PS There's a much longer explanation about word order here https://www.duolingo.com/comment/8970470 that may be useful for other users too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vevlira

Ah, makes sense, thanks! Does it work with other "questions" like 'where' or 'when' too? Like "Till och med i staden finns det en skog" "Till och med i kväll sover jag"? (nonsensical examples, but I hope you get what I mean)

As usual, thanks a lot for your help!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

Yes, all those work, and you can have much longer units in the first slot too, like whole subclauses for instance.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vevlira

Good to know! Thanks again! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanRoth2

Thanks, I had been wondering about that


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nordSPB

Emphasis on barnet then. I think i got the point and thank you for the russian example :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emitoska

I tried "även barnet skriver brev". Isn't "även" about the same as "till och med"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/schyrsivochter

No. även is more like “also” or “too”.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yaguarete.Pl

But this is good translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/adelinmaubray

I've written : till och med skriver barnet brev Why V2 rule doesn't apply here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

It actually does - please see Arnauti's comment above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZhangtheGreat

I have the same question, and Arnauti's comment doesn't answer it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Yes it does. Quoting:

PS the verb is still in second place here, because "Till och med barnet" as the subject counts as one unit of the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenjaminHu334362

It doesn't really. If "till och med" is an adverb, why is it attached to "barnet" as if it were an adjective?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Arnauti explains that as well above:

It's because adverb + noun form a noun phrase (which answers the question 'who'). You'd get the same general structure if you replaced 'till och med barnet' with one word, like 'någon skriver brev.' In most sentences, adverbs modify the verb, or the whole sentence, and are not part of a noun phrase, and in that case they will be the first constituent of the sentence on their own.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lexi344088

Can someone please explain why 'till och med' translates to 'even'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

The original and more literal meaning is "up to and including", so the step from that to "even" isn't that large.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lexi344088

Thanks. I still don't everything either word can mean, so all I was seeing was 'to and with', which made no sense.

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