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"Män som hatar kvinnor"

Translation:Men who hate women

December 19, 2014

83 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/skrats

I'm assuming this is a "Girl with the dragon tattoo" reference? ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

Yes, it's the original Swedish title of the book (and movie).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mrfrecklesXX

Wow, that gives it such a completely different vibe! That book is about misogyny, then, I take it? Also, what would be the Swedish term for "misogynist"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

I'd probably use the very literal kvinnohatare. Suitable given the example sentence. Maybe the book title should have just been translated as "Misogynists". :p


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/heathmar

Where's 'tattoo' in here?.. (förlåt)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

The title was changed, not translated. :p


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaiirapetjan

Thankfully I read it in Italian, otherwise I wouldn't have understood the reference! :) Uomini che odiano le donne.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/as2907

There's no article in the original Swedish title though. I admit that without "le" it would sound a bit weird in Italian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/avcara
  • 1793

È molto più facile.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgNo2

Because Anglophones would see the word-for-word translated title and think "relationship-advice book", not "thriller novel"? ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

Ingeborg, the problem here is not that a "word-for-word" translation into English is misleading. In fact, "Men who hate women" is a very accurate translation of the Swedish title. (How else would you translate it, if fidelity of translation were your objective?)

No, the problem here is not one of "translation". It is rather a problem of what to call the book in order to attract readership. I agree with you that the English "Men who hate women" sounds like a "relationship-advice book" (or, as I said in an earlier post, a doctoral thesis).

But I would say that the original Swedish "Män som hatar kvinnor" also sounds like a doctotal thesis rather than a detective thriller.

The only consideration that would change my opinion would be if someone pointed out that "Män som hator kvinnor" was a line from a song or some other context that all Swedes recognize and would therefore then associate wih the novel.

For example, when the Swedish movie came out the book had already been published and was a best seller in Sweden under the title "Män som hatar kvinnor". So that would be an important reason for using the same title for the Swedish version of he film.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ahferroin7

Agreed, the issue isn't the feel of the title so much as what will sell the book.

Of course, you get all kinds of odd and sometimes inventive translations trying to get the 'feel' right too. See for example the Americanization of Harry Potter (because most Americans don't know what a "Philosopher's Stone" is), the various translations of the title of Oscar Wilde's The Importance of Being Earnest (some were literal and as a result got rid of the pun, others changed character names to preserve the pun), or the various titles of translations of Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings (some were literal, others were less so and are often actually more descriptive as a result).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bartosso

Luckily I read the first book in Polish and the title was a literal translation of the original. The English "translation" of the title is stupid to say the least. No offence, English speakers ;)

Damn, why did Stieg have to die... ;(

PS.: I love how in French it's "Les Hommes qui N'AIMAIENT pas les femmes". It's not that they hate them, you know... ;d


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

The English "translation" of the title is stupid to say the least. I disagree with this comment. You are correct that "The Girl with the Dragon Tatoo" is not a literal translation of the Swedish title. However, from a marketing point of view -- trying to get people interested in reading the novel -- The 'Dragon Tatoo' title is much, much more intriguing. 'Men Who Hate Women' sounds like a doctoral thesis in psychology. Furthermore, I would argue that in the novel the girl really is the central character, and that a reference to her in the title of the book is therefore quite appropriate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bartosso

I couldn't care less about marketing. It's a bad translation because it doesn't do justice to what Stieg was trying to say with this title and the entire series. Sheesh, how can you think dumbing something down to please the masses is a good idea. It's lucrative, sure, but it's corrosive to culture.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidKinne10

Actually it's good translation, (btw I'm a translator). A good translation is not one which translates everything literally, but one whose text fulfills the same function in the target culture that it does in the source culture.

The function of titles is almost invariably to attract people towards the work of art (and I'm pretty sure the translators' employer asked for an attractive title). If people went to see the film because of the title, well good on the translators!

Also, just because something is changed doesn't mean it's "dumbed down".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kat931881

Agreed, and hi to a fellow translator!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FLchick

I agree with you, ion, that the English title is so much more intriguing and that the original title reads like a thesis subject. I enjoyed the book and both versions of the movie.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emppatron

Also in English 'Men Who Hate Women' just sounds clumsy. I think they went to the right direction by diversifying the title for different markets.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EdcpBin

yes, this happens in other languages, too, when it comes to film titles. Some English film names don't make sense when translated directly into Chinese (especially those with just one word or a name) so in the end the Chinese film title is not a direct translation to the film.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emily823504

I was just thinking about one of my favorite movies. The Chinese title sounds clunky in English-Attacked from 10 Directions. So it became House of Flying Daggers. That doesn't make English speaking audiences stupid. It just means we speak a different language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Oh, I didn't know that. Honestly makes a bit more sense. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Evpok

To be fair “les hommes qui n'aiment pas les femmes” would sound really weird to me for a book title but I have no idea why


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/craigchardy

"Les hommes qui n'aimaient pas les femmes" was the actual French title.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rachael.cr3

Love, love, love! This is what got me into learning Swedish in the first place.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MonicaBaha1

I remember picking up the first book to read about a year ago then leaving it to the side because I couldn't understand all of the Sweden stuff. I'm currently done with the second one and starting off with the third before I finish the first at my Swedish friend's request. He says the first book will make more sense this way. Then it will be off to the movies so I would critique them like a snob.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AhhBisseto

The movies are really good practice for your swedish listening though, if you have english subtitles on. =)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JMikkola

You mean the book?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WildSage

I've been looking in bookstores in my area for the svenska versions. I can only find it in english and spanish :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jwbards

It's available on Amazon in Swedish, but crazy money.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WildSage

Pretty much all the swedish language books on there are ridiculously priced.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarcvdKorput

It's quite a while ago since these previous comments were posted, but others might find this useful.

I was looking for the Swedish version as well and couldn't find it reasonably priced either. Until I found a Swedish online bookstore which (obviously) had the Swedish version. Well priced and it was delivered to my country (The Netherlands) only a few days later.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the name of the company and/or a link (Mods, please let me know if not, then I'll remove it), but it's called Bokus and you can find them at bokus.com.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the name of the company and/or a link (Mods, please let me know if not, then I'll remove it), but it's called Bokus and you can find them at bokus.com.

That's perfectly fine. :) Bokus is actually one of the largest bookstores in Sweden. A great resource for finding the lowest price is generally bokfynd.nu, although I don't know which stores offer international delivery.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jwbards

Bokus.com sänder inte till USA. :-(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WildSage

Wow this is old. I actually found the series in ebook form on Google play in Swedish on sale since then. I believe they are still there. I know it is on the US site, I can't vouch for other countries.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Korina418

:( I wanted to buy Harry Potter och De Vises Sten because Amazon has ridiculously overpriced it, but Bokus does not ship to the U.S. :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimNolt

The confluence of three factors led me to learning Swedish: 1) Rediscovering ABBA, 2) Stieg Larsson's books (I've read all three twice and have watched Millennium many times), and 3) John Ajvide Lindqvist's "Let The Right One In" (book and film) Lina Leanderssson is so very good in that, and the cinematography is outstanding.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HoroTanuki

when I complete the duolingo course, will I be able to read the millenium trilogy in Swedish or is it too advanced?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rachael.cr3

I'm doing exactly that and I've found it slow-going. I'd suggest a dictionary and notebook while you're reading.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Timurso53

You can do it with "Learning with texts", this is exactly what it was made for.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaiirapetjan

Haha, I liked this part:

The Swede suspected by Larsson of the killing, Bertil Wedin, denied being involved and told Svenska Dagbladet: "I have nothing to lose from the truth being established since I am luckily not the murderer."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maurocecchin

I liked this movie too :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seraph259

Jag började en vecka sedan att läsa den här boken :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaiirapetjan

På vilket språk?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seraph259

På svenska. Det är ganska svårt att läsa, eftersom boken innehåller många ord som jag inte har förut sett


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaiirapetjan

Det faktum att du ens försöka, sätter dig på en helt annan nivå än mig... Förresten, jag använder en online översättare för att skriva detta. ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimNolt

Larsson's third book is "Luftslottet som sprängdes," or literally "The Air Castle That Blew Up" (but changed to "The Girl Who Kicked The Hornet's Nest." When I first came across the literal translation I was at a loss, because I had never heard of an air castle and had no idea what it is. Am I the only one ignorant of its meaning? And I'm curious to know if "luftslottet" a word most Swedes would know?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarvelMani1

WIKTIONARY... luftslott: fantastiska och storslagna drömmar utan grund i verkligheten ( grandIose dreams without basis in reality... a pipe dream).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimNolt

Thank you. "Pipe dream" is something this little brain can understand.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GTX6969

The Hollywood remake was amazing. Haven't seen the original movie, but I bought the book (translated to English) and can't wait till it arrives.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

Although the Hollywood one was good, the original movie was better than the remake, I think. Perhaps watching the original with subtitles could be a good bit of practice? :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/photodiarist

And if you're looking for slightly more light-hearted Swedish films with English subtitles, try "Jalla! Jalla!" and "Kopps". Haven't seen his other films, but these two are hilarious.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GTX6969

Good point, I gotta download the original one of these days. Though it sucks that Stellan Skarsgård isn't in it, his performance as Martin Vanger was amazing :/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jwbards

I also recommend Wallander. I've been watching it on Netflix with English subtitles. I'm waiting to finish DL before I watch Män Som Hatar Kvinnor, but I've heard from others that the Swedish version is better, too - which IMO is high praise. The fact that I liked the movie after I read the books (in English) was amazing enough, but the English version actually turned me into a Daniel Craig fan (I hadn't seen him as Bond because I couldn't picture him as Bond - didn't realize what I was missing!).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jim658990

I loved Wallander too. Currently I am watching ´Beck´, a Swedish detective series that is great! I get it (free) on Hoopla through a nearby library. It definitely helps my ear for Swedish - reinforces vocabulary and you learn new words, like of course, ´utredningen´ (the investigation) :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FLchick

I saw the original movie first and it was good. I was happily surprised by the quality of Hollywood's version. Rooney Mara was much more how I envisioned Salander while reading the book.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JosVictorA7

Why "som" and not "vem"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kvitravn

'Som' here is a relative pronoun (to introduce a description or comment of the noun right before 'som'). Think of it as 'that/which/who', as in 'Men that hate women', or in Spanish 'que', guessing from your name :P

Flickan som lekte med elden = The girl that played with (the) fire = La chica que jugó con (el) fuego

'som', just like 'that' can also be used with objects: Det finns en tredje bok som heter 'Luftslottet som sprängdes'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JosVictorA7

thank you for making this more specific. My name is in Portuguese, not Spanish haha, but they do look like each other :p


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

vem is for either questions or for the expression vem som helst ("whoever").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JosVictorA7

So if I wanna say "I am the one who knocks" I should use "som" not "vem", correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Buzdawg

Jag är inte i fara. Jag ÄR faran. Det är JAG som knackar. (or JAG är den som knackar? the latter sounds cooler in my ears) :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Either is fine. Sounds like you're Darkwing Duck, though. :p


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Buzdawg

Haha, I thought I was being epic like Heisenberg, but perhaps it doesn't have the same effect in Swedish :P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mariano.Yalour

Boken på spanska heter "Männen som inte älskade kvinnorna" (Los hombres que no amaban a las mujeres). I don't see the need to do those random changes. Even the definite articles are not necessary in Spanish in this case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarvelMani1

English speaker here. I read the English translation first. Then as a swedish learning experience, read the Swedish. The english translation is poorly done with wrong interpretations and changes for no reason. Even as a beginner (dictionary in hand) original was better.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vogliocapire

thank you for that, now i'm more excited to read the Swedish version :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheSeez

Det var en riktigt bra bok!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/biscuitdangler22

En jättebrå bok!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gubatpark

I immediately went to the discussion board because I recognized the book immediately. I was not disappointed!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/craigchardy

Wow! Just watched the extended version of this last night! Talk about a coincidence!!!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PrincePlanet

How are relations between the sexes in Sweden? Bad enough that the title of Larsson's book would have great meaning and import?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Sweden is very equal as compared to most other countries. I would not call it equal, though. There's still much to do in many aspects.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PrincePlanet

In what way? I learned that, with regard to jobs, typically female jobs like nursing is way over-represented by women, typically male jobs, like engineering, by men. So it would appear that Sweden's much-vaunted equality laws have forced people to get more in touch with traditional gender roles, thus contradicting the social engineering purpose of its equality laws.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

That's a bit of a huge topic, and one on which there are many different opinions. I don't wish the thread to turn political. But the fact of the matter is that women are underrepresented and underpaid in a lot of areas. Obviously, inequiality can go both ways, but it's more commonly the women who are worse off. I do not want to give the wrong expression, though. Sweden is one of the most equal countries in the world, and equality in Sweden has progressed greatly for a long time now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zeriabrookswede

"Men who hate women." Loves whom??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Sorry, I don't understand. What's your question?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ahbeetay5

cough cough sexist


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

The Swedish here is the title of a novel that is very much pro woman.

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