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- "Till och med barnet skriver …
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Can someone please explain to me the semantic difference between "till och med" and "ens"? Tack!
1459
The combination is inte ens, which means 'not even'. But you can't use ens without inte to mean 'even'.
Oh I see, it might be the same in my mother tongue now you mention it. Thanks!
Can I ask why there is no inversion in this sentence? If for example instead of "Till och med" there was "Nu", the sentence would have been "Nu striver barnet brev". Am I right? If so, why it's not the case with "Till och med"?
- 2461
"Till och med" is determining 'barnet', so these words is kept together. (Not just the mother and father, but 'even the child' is writing). But "Nu" is an adverb of time, which determines the whole sentence that follows: "Nu skriver barnet brev", "Nu" is emphasized in itself, therefore put at the start of the sentence, leading to the inversion.
- 214
"Even the child writes letter" got wrong, DL required "letters" for "brev". Only plural brev in this sentence?
- 1459
I think in Swedish, it could either be the plural, or a sort of general usage, which Lundgren8 has written more about here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/5824774
In English though, Even the child writes letter does not sound correct to me, which is probably why that translation isn't approved. What's your native language? Mine is obviously Swedish, but I think in English you'd either have to say a letter or letters (and a letter doesn't really fit the bill here either).
Yeah, it doesn't look right to me unless you say 'a letter' or 'letters'. Though 'a letter' is right if you translate it to "Even the child is writing a letter'
- 2461
But if it is only 'one' letter, we have to say "Barnet skriver ett brev", without 'ett' it is plural, or in a 'general' sense, which really implies more than one letter - that is my feeling.
So in my underdtsnding of English, "Even the child writes letters" and "The child even writes letters" mean different things. Are there different expressions in Swedish for the two sentences? (Sorry if this had been asked before.)
Yes. These two sentences ARE different in English. In #1the emphasis is on the child,writing. #2 the emphasis is on the fact of WHAT the child is writing , letters!
- 2461
Late answer, but better late then never: We move "till och mer" in front of the noun we want to emphasize, so it is almost as in English: "Barnet skriver till och med brev". As you can see, in Swedish we have moved the verb out of the way, it has the standard second position.
So, somehow "to and with" (as a set phrase) means "even?" This is the first time I've seen this, so it's kind of a trip.
I think of it as "up to and including ..."
You'll also see "från och med (date)" to mean "as of (date)" and in that context they're often abbreviated fr.o.m. and t.o.m.
The more colloquial meanings, e.g. when we're not talking about dates, are "even" and "furthermore."
Could somebody please explain the difference between the use of "och med" in the two sentences below?
"Hon tallar och med svenska" "Till och med barnet skriver brev"
What is confusing me is that the first sentence doesn't have "till" in front of the "och med" phrase.
- 1459
You've just copied it wrong. You do need till in both cases: the first sentence is Hon talar till och med svenska. :)
Why they say it's wrong to answer "Even the child writes letters"? I got something wrong??
That sentence is correct and accepted. That's what I answered and I got it right.
- 2461
'The child' is 3rd person singular, and has to have -s on the verb: 'Even the child writes letters.'
Is there any way in Swedish to distinguish between "Even the child is writing letters," e.g. it's a letter writing party and everyone is writing letters right now, even the child; and "Even the child writes letters," e.g. they're a family of avid letter-writers who all send each other a letter every day, even the child?
Is "Till och med barnet skriver brev" closer to one of those translations than the other?
- 2461
As I understand your question, it is not about 'Even the child' (which is the same in the two sentences) - but about putting the verb in a continuous tense or not. We don't have the English -ing-continuous. The present tens contains both. BUT - we have other ways of conveying what is going on. E.g. Even the child is writing letters = Till och med barnet håller på och skriver brev/bokstäver.
Yes, sorry for the confusion. It's mildly frustrating to me that Duolingo's English translations almost always use the present tense when the present progressive/continuous would make more sense. It makes it difficult to visualize and therefore understand the meaning of the Swedish sentence. Then here we see a sentence where the present tense makes sense... and Duolingo uses the present progressive/continuous instead.
I guess I've got it but just to make sure: is the difference between "till och med" and "ännu" that the former is used before nouns and the latter before adjectives in the comparative ("ännu långre")?
This is the sort of thing that is hard for me to remember. Who would ever think "to and with" would mean "even"?
Trouble is many dictionaries translate även as "also, even", maybe to account for the phrase "även om" = even though.
This is a new expression for me .... "till och med' - Is this the only way to say "even?"
